So Wafik got a Mandau...

[Eaglestrike]

So my tp gain is fucked over with Blau/sirocco because of like 1-2 delay too low? Nice to know. Would not using Suppa give me 4.6tp/hit?

[shihei]

MATH IS HRD

[Nagamaki]

That or using some Store TP should jump the gap, since from some tests it looked like Store TP was applied before rounding down to the 1st decimal (I wouldn't consider this 100% sure though, I wasn't looking for info about Store TP specifically so that could be wrong).

Blau/Sirocco with /NIN but no Suppa mean 138.55 delay

(138 - 180) * 1.5 / 180 + 5 = 4.65

[aurik]

blau/sirocco without suppa:

178+150 = 328
[328 * 0.85] = 278
[278 / 2] = 139

5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5] / 180

(139 - 180) * 1.5 = -61.5
[-61.5] = -62

-62 / 180 = -0.34444..
5 - .3444... = 4.65555....
[4.6555...] = 4.6

But then you're also swinging slower.

[Eaglestrike]

Yeah I wouldn't do it, just too lazy to do math on my own. There isn't a good enough earring to put down Suppa.

[Nagamaki]

On the speed difference with any without Suppa with that setup:

Multiply the delays by each other, and they will even out at 18078 delay (lets pretend you just engage and no JAs, no mob switching, whatever).

In that delay, without Suppa you swing 131 times for 4.6 = 602.6 TP

With Suppa, you swing 138 times for 4.5 = 621 TP

So Suppa improves both TP gain and swing count. Having Suppa actually makes a pretty significant difference in the TP ratio between THF/NIN and THF/WAR.

Speaking of that ratio, does anyone happen to know for a fact if there's some sort of priority between Triple Attack and Double Attack on swings? You can't have both kick in on the same swing, but how does the game calculate their priority?

*edit some bad wording

[Koyangi]

Triple Attack will check first, then Double Attack.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Triple Attack will check first, then Double Attack.

Proof? That seems like the kind of thing thats rediculously hard to test.

[chiz]

Speaking of that ratio, does anyone happen to know for a fact if there's some sort of priority between Triple Attack and Double Attack on swings? You can't have both kick in on the same swing, but how does the game calculate their priority?

*edit some bad wording

Seems that DA takes precedence over TA, unfortunately. Can test it on jobs that have no native DA or TA (use a neutral sub like /NIN) that can use Homam and put on a Brutal Earring. You'll DA 2-3x as often as you TA. This is going off the assumption from other testing that both Homam Body and Brutal are a base 5% increase to your TA and DA chances, respectively.

DA and TA is pretty even though as THF/WAR with Homam, Brutal, capped TA merits even though TA has @5% higher base chance to proc. which leads to the same conclusion that DA takes precedence over TA. Probably just a simple check, DA 1st, TA 2nd. If DA procs then TA chance is skipped over until next attack round. As a result, the chance to multi-attack with THF/WAR is closer to @15% rather than the 10% DA + 15% TA base chances.

[aurik]

Triple Attack will check first, then Double Attack.

Proof? That seems like the kind of thing thats rediculously hard to test.

Can test it by taking TA rate as thf/nin, then taking TA rate as thf/war+brutal. If DA checks first then the TA rate will be decreased in the second example by 15%.

But it would take a lot lot lot of trials before the significance of the difference is enough to confidently say it's one way or the other.

[RKenshin]

Speaking of that ratio, does anyone happen to know for a fact if there's some sort of priority between Triple Attack and Double Attack on swings? You can't have both kick in on the same swing, but how does the game calculate their priority?

*edit some bad wording

Seems that DA takes precedence over TA, unfortunately. Can test it on jobs that have no native DA or TA (use a neutral sub like /NIN) that can use Homam and put on a Brutal Earring. You'll DA 2-3x as often as you TA. This is going off the assumption from other testing that both Homam Body and Brutal are a base 5% increase to your TA and DA chances, respectively.

DA and TA is pretty even though as THF/WAR with Homam, Brutal, capped TA merits even though TA has @5% higher base chance to proc. which leads to the same conclusion that DA takes precedence over TA. Probably just a simple check, DA 1st, TA 2nd. If DA procs then TA chance is skipped over until next attack round. As a result, the chance to multi-attack with THF/WAR is closer to @15% rather than the 10% DA + 15% TA base chances.

Homan is 2.5% TA apparently.

[Lordwafik]

Yeah I wouldn't do it, just too lazy to do math on my own. There isn't a good enough earring to put down Suppa.

Abyssal Earring 8)

[Priran]

Yeah I wouldn't do it, just too lazy to do math on my own. There isn't a good enough earring to put down Suppa.

Abyssal Earring 8)

ha

[Nagamaki]

About Homam, I'll go out and test it myself tomorrow, its not horribly hard to test while I farm Hickory Lumber for no real reason.. For DA and TA priority, I'm gonna go ahead and say there's no way I can possibly get a definitive answer without using a parser that keeps track of rates, I would go insane testing long enough to have a data pool big enough to judge variations that small manually. From experience with my rates getting DA and TA on SB as THF/WAR I would say its probably TA priority, but that's not what I'd call solid data.

[cassiraa]

Not to re-rail the thread or anything, but UberCongrats to Wafik.

You had said that your numbers on RDM were lower than Evis, What were your averages as a RDM? And any difference to mages Magic Bursting on the extended Skillchain as opposed to any other SC?


Also, will the 10/s Poison proc on the Brittle Wall in Lebros Assault? If so that wall would almost be too easy.


And on the TP thing, I think it's just a semantic difference. Some of you think of "floor" as something you can go beneath to get more TP, Where it seems that the Floor is just literally the lowest you can get until they release 120 delay daggers. The TP Floor is based on how fast you can swing, Not like it used to be.

[Someonher]

Congratz Wafik. Seems pretty nice, and looks quite fancy. Shoulda gone for the Guttler though, but maybe Arjuna will get it done and share some info.

/poke Cassi

[Lordwafik]

Congratz Wafik. Seems pretty nice, and looks quite fancy. Shoulda gone for the Guttler though, but maybe Arjuna will get it done and share some info.

/poke Cassi

Thanks I'd get gutler if I played my bst more maybe But at least with thf i'll get some pt invites , unlike my bst /tear.

You had said that your numbers on RDM were lower than Evis, What were your averages as a RDM? And any difference to mages Magic Bursting on the extended Skillchain as opposed to any other SC?

Was getting 200-400 on EP's, I've gotten about the same on evisc, but then again that was in full RDM dex gear, I havent tried full STR gear on my RDM, so i'm guessing I can push out more, had I gone all the way in STR gear. I'll do that one day when im bored But the WS is weak without sneak attack, it's like it was made for it.

Also, will the 10/s Poison proc on the Brittle Wall in Lebros Assault? If so that wall would almost be too easy.

Oo havent tried that yet, I bet I can solo it , but there's nothing really from that assault that I want. Busy raping mimics assault

[Eaglestrike]

Isn't Lamia better points than Mimics?

[Lordwafik]

Isn't Lamia better points than Mimics?

yes, but mimics with dat swap requires you to just MGS your way about till you find a flag, Lamia requires 3 peoples full effort, and you can die, the difference is 300 points. Sure I wouldnt mind doing this assault instead of mimic, but i've only found RDM RDM SMN to be the best/safest trio team, and when those jobs are not available, mimics is 50x easier.

[genome]

Also, will the 10/s Poison proc on the Brittle Wall in Lebros Assault? If so that wall would almost be too easy.

Oo havent tried that yet, I bet I can solo it , but there's nothing really from that assault that I want. Busy raping mimics assault

The walls from that assault are immune to poison and poison2 (Bio, dia, shock etc work but not poison, resisted 100%), so I imagine even if it did process it shouldn't work as DoT on wall. Still it would be interesting to actually test it and also see what mercy stroke does on walls, although I think they are probably weaker to blunt and not to piercing...
Asuran does 30-33 on those walls without dia or special buffs.