So Wafik got a Mandau...

[NynJa]

Friend of mine had a fencer ring, went latent....and still hit 0's.

But did he match the spell to the day? Blazer was hitting for 0 when he tried Enaero, he started hitting for more than 0 when he tried Enfire on Fireday.

Also, did he bust out all of his enhancing gear? The +30 from AF and Relic is probably very helpful.

Yeah, matched day and stacked full enhancing gear.


She's elvaan though, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Khamsin]

Friend of mine had a fencer ring, went latent....and still hit 0's.

But did he match the spell to the day? Blazer was hitting for 0 when he tried Enaero, he started hitting for more than 0 when he tried Enfire on Fireday.

Also, did he bust out all of his enhancing gear? The +30 from AF and Relic is probably very helpful.

Yeah, matched day and stacked full enhancing gear.


She's elvaan though, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Was it Earthsday?

[chiz]

Mandau is a very nice weapon, if you are thief lots, go for it. The Jadeshells are the hardest of all to get if Fairy is anything like Asura.
If you really love both jobs, reguardless of what you pick, you'll kinda wish you had the other, but if you taake a serious think about it, and realize which job is on your mannequin and which you play alot, you'll see your choice. I suggest before you decide it's time to hand anything in, play both jobs for a day/week untill you've decided. Maybe you'll love your rng again But THF is frigging fun, nothing can hit you, i love that :D

Sooo decision time. Our first planned attestation run went incredibly well, couldn't have scripted it better honestly. Dropped bow, sword and axe attestations, all of which were needed by S4 upgraders.

I played RNG in Limbus the other day and definitely didn't enjoy it as much as THF, mostly because of the melee/ranged nerf I think. But the possibilities with Bow on SAM was another reason I continued working on upgrade even after the RNG nerf. Being able to make self-light with just 2 WS and meditate is very appealing, but also the ability to continue Light or open Darkness makes it a very flexible weapon.

Another concern is a THF only has 2 hands max, 1 really for HNMs, and the only dagger anyone really cares about in those situations is THF's Knife lol. If its not a pulling situation though, the +20 attack on Mandau and a hefty off-hand dagger like Blau would make /NIN a viable option.

Homam might be far away, I'm allergic to CoP, however today I did get myself the THF af2 shoes with Triple Attack+1, those look very fun, but no pts yet today (busy on my rdm , ouryu and baha).

Definitely get to Limbus for Homam, its very worthwhile. +12% haste and 30-something accuracy is just too much fun on THF. There's other options out there, like dusk gloves/ledelsens, bravo subligar and Walahra turban but a Haste + Acc. build on thief is just too much fun, especially if you off-hand something that isn't a dagger. I tend to use sushi regardless though for landing acid bolts and on HNMs, but attack food works great in areas like Limbus and the 4 home city Dynamis.

I'll probably sit on the paper and 6100 shells til our next attestation run. We still need to get a few for other relics but if dagger drops I'll be in a real dillemma lol.

[Lordwafik]

I recently joined a limbus LS that works on my time, so maybe i'll get homam within the next few months. The ones that i'm most interested in are the feet and the body, but the other ones would be nice for a haste build.

Current haste build : W.turban, R.harness, B.subligar, i'd have the frigging belt if the NM wasnt a whore. 0/4.

Sounds to me like you'd regret the bow if you upgrade. You dont sound too happy with your rng, and if a major driving force about it is to do self light, it's not such a great idea. If you're doing it to benefit your LS - wait a bit for ToAU to keep patching, keep both papers on you and start collecting half/half currency for the next level. See how the game fares out, will the patch be more thief friendly or more in need of archery? etc. Personally I think you'll be better off with a dagger :D I might be slightly biased, but try to find some SS's of the bow's damage. I think Saige on KI RNG boards has experimented with it in dynamis, send him a PM , post the damage here, i'd like to see it too.

Also your general damage overall will jump with this dagger, Mercy stroke lets me keep up in burn parties, I dont do shitty WS's that make you just cringe, alot of the time you pull hate. If you love your thief, go thief. If you love your rng, go bow. Just remember if it's going to sit in mog house for longer than you're equipping it, then you'll definately regret it. And relics are a very linear 1 way upgrading, no turning back

If you havent made up your mind yet, no rush. Keep saving till you are confident in which weapon you want. I'm glad I picked the dagger, it's amazing, and not a peice of shit let down like I was initially frightened of it becomming.

[Nikelz]

wth does me being elvaan have to do with anything! hater

Yes it was earthsday with earth weather and it was hitting for 1s 80% of the time, I hit for 1s and 2s so an extra one dmg is a big deal.. not the +5 it advertizes but the ring was cheap so wtf not. If it being earthsday has anything to do with the +dmg from the ring because its a rock, I dont know yet.. hopefully we'll find out tonight

[genome]

wth does me being elvaan have to do with anything! hater

Yes it was earthsday with earth weather and it was hitting for 1s 80% of the time, I hit for 1s and 2s so an extra one dmg is a big deal.. not the +5 it advertizes but the ring was cheap so wtf not. If it being earthsday has anything to do with the +dmg from the ring because its a rock, I dont know yet.. hopefully we'll find out tonight

If you are just going for testing en-spell effect on walls, another really cheap item (5k? I got the drop a lot while doing the p.charm bc) is
Buzzard Tuck and then of course also enhancing sword (if you have it, I know it's rare/expensive hehe). Obviously you would eventually use krakens etc to get the most hits in , but trying a few swings with those items will tell you how much Sword Enhancement Spell Damage+ scales up on wall even without having hollow.
I would be really surprised if it went up by a lot on brittle rock in that assault though, it's sort of a special case with something like 40x damage reduction on most things except DoT.

[Dezzimal]

Does sam need to sub ranger to get Empyreal arrow?

[Not Kuno]

Does sam need to sub ranger to get Empyreal arrow?

Probably not since the bow gives the skill, and not having archery skill.

[Russta]

Does sam need to sub ranger to get Empyreal arrow?

No, they just can't get it period.

[Awoir]

Does sam need to sub ranger to get Empyreal arrow?

No

[chiz]

Does sam need to sub ranger to get Empyreal arrow?

To clarify, bow relic WS is Namas Arrow, like other relics any job that would be able to use the relic would be able to use the WS (S4: Dynamis only, S5: anywhere). Empyreal arrow is the @250 quested WS that you rarely see used, mostly because it sucks and typically does less damage than Arching Arrow unless you wait for 300 TP.

I recently joined a limbus LS that works on my time, so maybe i'll get homam within the next few months. The ones that i'm most interested in are the feet and the body, but the other ones would be nice for a haste build.

Current haste build : W.turban, R.harness, B.subligar, i'd have the frigging belt if the NM wasnt a whore. 0/4.

Those 2 pieces are probably the best when compared to other options available to THF. Rukenshin mentioned the body is probably closer to 2.5% TA, which is more in-line with my own observations. Still, the +15 Accuracy makes it a great piece for THF. Swift belt NMs can suck ya. ;; We actually did pretty well on them when we farmed a bunch for LS members. About 40-50% drop rate. Least tedious way imo is to go with 6, 2 nin, 2 thf, a rdm and a whm. Mobs drop fast with 2 THF SATA'ing/WS on the NINs at will.

Sounds to me like you'd regret the bow if you upgrade. You dont sound too happy with your rng, and if a major driving force about it is to do self light, it's not such a great idea. If you're doing it to benefit your LS - wait a bit for ToAU to keep patching, keep both papers on you and start collecting half/half currency for the next level. See how the game fares out, will the patch be more thief friendly or more in need of archery? etc. Personally I think you'll be better off with a dagger I might be slightly biased, but try to find some SS's of the bow's damage. I think Saige on KI RNG boards has experimented with it in dynamis, send him a PM , post the damage here, i'd like to see it too.

Thanks for the sound advice, I'll see if I can track Saige down, I remember he posted frequently on KI back when I played RNG often. Its not so much that I'm not happy with my RNG, its just we've evolved as a LS so that we don't have to rely on RNG damage to kill everything. For RNG, I'm not too concerned about Namas' damage, I've seen the damage numbers from the 1st bow upgrader and Namas' damage is similar to Arching, only with the fun SC properties. But ya, a lot of what you said is what's been pacing through my mind the last 2-3 months as I closed in on 6100 shells.

Other main concern is merits. I've already put 6 in dagger (really helpful when expected to TP on HNMs lol) and have slowly removed all of my Archery merits to level WAR. As it is now, I plan to remove the 4 I had in Axe for WAR and move them to Sword once I hit 75. After that, I won't have any room for Archery merits, which would be required if I wanted to use the bow on SAM with any consistency. Hopefully the next merit update increases combat skill total (not individual skill cap); I'm pretty sure everyone is rooting for that.

Also your general damage overall will jump with this dagger, Mercy stroke lets me keep up in burn parties, I dont do shitty WS's that make you just cringe, alot of the time you pull hate. If you love your thief, go thief. If you love your rng, go bow. Just remember if it's going to sit in mog house for longer than you're equipping it, then you'll definately regret it. And relics are a very linear 1 way upgrading, no turning back

I think that's the most exciting aspect of going with dagger. I saw in some of your SS that the triple damage effect can go off on melee attacks as well as SATA. I know its hard to test because of native TA on THF and multi-hit WS, but have you seen triple damage go off on WS? I'm 99% sure I've heard of triple damage going off on bow WS, and I'm 99.9% sure that Doshu on Fairy has had a few 3500+ Slugshots in EXP with Annihilator. Triple damage on WS wouldn't make or break my decision to go bow or dagger, the anticipation of my next hit doing 3x damage with a haste build would be enough to hold my interest. :D

If you havent made up your mind yet, no rush. Keep saving till you are confident in which weapon you want. I'm glad I picked the dagger, it's amazing, and not a peice of shit let down like I was initially frightened of it becomming.

Ya, I'm so jealous lol ;; Definitely interested in seeing updates as you complete your THF gear and max out merits.

[Asta]

Hey Wafik. Congrats on the Dagger. I'm about 50% done with the shells and 40% done with the bills. Another 7 months for me.

I was wondering about what element the Mercy Stroke is based on. Have you tried getting one of the Elemental gorget of that kind? I have the Breeze gorget for Dancing Edge and I really like it.

If I am going to need a different gorget for MS, then I want to start collecting the organs now.

Thanks

[aurik]

It's modded by soil and dark gorgets, at the very least.

[Dezzimal]

Yeah I was a bit sleepy when I posted Empyreal arrow...I meant Namas Arrow.

Just to clarify though, SAM won't have any ranged weaponskills other than Namas Arrow if he is SAM/WAR with fully upgraded bow correct? Seems funny but it checks out according to all information so far.

[Lordwafik]

I think that's the most exciting aspect of going with dagger. I saw in some of your SS that the triple damage effect can go off on melee attacks as well as SATA. I know its hard to test because of native TA on THF and multi-hit WS, but have you seen triple damage go off on WS? I'm 99% sure I've heard of triple damage going off on bow WS, and I'm 99.9% sure that Doshu on Fairy has had a few 3500+ Slugshots in EXP with Annihilator. Triple damage on WS wouldn't make or break my decision to go bow or dagger, the anticipation of my next hit doing 3x damage with a haste build would be enough to hold my interest. :D

Hmm well, I speculate that one of my WS's kinda triple attacked, but there's no way I can confirm it.
In earlier posts in this thread, back when my average was only 1200'ish, I once pulled a 1700 WS out of nowhere, and couldnt do it again for the rest of the night. My speculation is, triple attack cant go off on the initial hit (since all relic WS are 1 hit), but if you triple attack or offhand, triple dmg can come up in any of those offhand hits and count as part of the WS damage. I would loooveeeee to have triple damage on WS's, even if it's a 2% rate, but I know SE would never do that

Hey Wafik. Congrats on the Dagger. I'm about 50% done with the shells and 40% done with the bills. Another 7 months for me.

I was wondering about what element the Mercy Stroke is based on. Have you tried getting one of the Elemental gorget of that kind? I have the Breeze gorget for Dancing Edge and I really like it.

If I am going to need a different gorget for MS, then I want to start collecting the organs now.

Thanks

It fits in the SC chart where you see Blade Ten/Ku/Evisceration etc, on the Gravitation / Darkness section. Basically, the only nice one we can SC with is GK's Tachi:Gekko, I dont know any WAR who use GK in pts.

Ele gorget - I use a soil gorget, breeze wont affect this WS at all.

It's kind of annoying though, I think they put this WS into the game, before evisceration moved from light to dark, and this was meant to be the "thief darkness" weaponskill, but then they put both of our darkness on the same side -_- I wish mercy was on the distortion side so we can chain with burn jobs better, oh well.

[Kirianna]

I have no proof beyond personal observation.


I'm pretty sure the 3x damage can work on the normal weapon skills. Since I've picked up relic katana, it "feels" easier to hit higher numbers more consistently. It *could* be the 42 dmg +20atk, but I did a lot of messing around with Yoshimitsu (42 dmg, no +atk) and I never saw the ease with which I do high ws damage.

The sharpest example I have is in SE appollyon. I remember my highest ghost clot pre-relic was about 1800 or so, the first time I did SE appo after picking up relic I hit a normal slime ws for exactly 2100 dmg. That's really high for a slime. The ghost clot does take extra damage beyond the slimes normal weakness, yet I crushed that clot damage by 300.

Keep in mind the added 3x dmg isn't that huge a proc rate. If you take a naked ninja, no merit, you're base bottom line crit % is gonna be about equal to the relic hidden. It's been a long time since I was unmerited and using mamo+1's back at 72, but the crit% then seems reasonably close to this 3xdmg proc.

I've never seen an obscenly high Metsu though, but I don't spam that ws with the frequency I do jin, even when soloing; so I simply may not have been lucky enough to see one. I dunno! jury's out still but I do think it enhances my ws' in some way beyond the +20 atk over Yoshimitsu since I exp'd a ton with Yoshi just to get a baseline, before completing relic, of what a 42 dmg weapon would look like.

[kareface]

It's kind of annoying though, I think they put this WS into the game, before evisceration moved from light to dark, and this was meant to be the "thief darkness" weaponskill, but then they put both of our darkness on the same side -_- I wish mercy was on the distortion side so we can chain with burn jobs better, oh well.

A nin on my server got his Katana a while ago. I guess mercy -> metsu and metsu -> mercy will both make darkness. So the dagger pairs up really well with the katana in burn partys. They were talking about crazy good SC damage on both sides.

[Asta]

Ele gorget - I use a soil gorget, breeze wont affect this WS at all.

It's kind of annoying though, I think they put this WS into the game, before evisceration moved from light to dark, and this was meant to be the "thief darkness" weaponskill, but then they put both of our darkness on the same side -_- I wish mercy was on the distortion side so we can chain with burn jobs better, oh well.

I didnt think breeze would do much since its wind based. I was kind of thinking that a light or shadow gorget might be the best.

Doesn't the color of the icon next to the WS name indicate its base element? I thought I saw a white icon next to Mercy Stroke.... so light gorget?


It sucks that Mercy Skillchains are limited. Have you tried any higher level skillchains? I had heard that relic weaponskills could follow any regular skillchain and make a L4 light skillchain.

Example: Heavy Shot to Sharkbite ---> L3 light ---> Mercy Stroke ---> L4 light

[Koyangi]

Ele gorget - I use a soil gorget, breeze wont affect this WS at all.

It's kind of annoying though, I think they put this WS into the game, before evisceration moved from light to dark, and this was meant to be the "thief darkness" weaponskill, but then they put both of our darkness on the same side -_- I wish mercy was on the distortion side so we can chain with burn jobs better, oh well.

I didnt think breeze would do much since its wind based. I was kind of thinking that a light or shadow gorget might be the best.

Doesn't the color of the icon next to the WS name indicate its base element? I thought I saw a white icon next to Mercy Stroke.... so light gorget?


It sucks that Mercy Skillchains are limited. Have you tried any higher level skillchains? I had heard that relic weaponskills could follow any regular skillchain and make a L4 light skillchain.

Example: Heavy Shot to Sharkbite ---> L3 light ---> Mercy Stroke ---> L4 light

The color just means if the WS is elemental or not, white just means its physical.

[Lordwafik]

Sorry for the necrobump, didn't want to update till I broke 2k.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2...oke20003rs.jpg

And I did!

Here are the parses for those people who are interested in how I was doing. I still havent xp'd with any ridill war/nin though.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wafiks/ ... amook.html
In mamook with a trollbane, Vierge is a NIN (one of the servers uber ones), Dardanian is a WAR(74)

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wafiks/ ... oi_PT.html
Masa Curosu = WAR, Bigboi = NIN, I = take a wild guess.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wafiks/ ... 18-2006(v2).html
all other DD beside me in this pt = NIN.


All the parties were the same, 1 bard 1 healer 4 DD, except the mamook pt, that was 2 bards.