So Wafik got a Mandau...

[Sylvrdragon]

lol Wafik, I like your WS macro. In the case that someone in PT is too polite to check you, you let em know right up front that you're sporting Relic. I would too... >.>

[Rocl]

Probably cause you can't get the WS Name in the auto-translate function :O

And probably part your reason too.

[NynJa]

grats, I only need like 2800 more bynes...thats a shitload still



but wtf @ str mod....

[Weltall]

A JP officer in the linkshell I lead has Mandau. He was also really pissed off when he found out the modifier was STR for this. He was irate actually, because he is Taru XD He has been using full Hetacomb+1 now lately. He knows a lot about it if you got any questions you want me to ask him LW.

He got this last night, so far his highest on Faf and he has had it about 6-7 months:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/Weltall43/Dava.gif

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Catastrophe is AGI and Mercy Stroke is STR. There is no god.

[Dezzimal]

Catastrophe is AGI, Mercy Stroke is STR and I'm still posting. There is no god.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Catastrophe is AGI, Mercy Stroke is STR and I'm still posting. There is no god.

Even you turned on me? /derail

[Vobent]

Catastrophe is AGI, Mercy Stroke is STR and I'm still posting. There is no god.

[Tdizzle]

Hearin that its str modified makes me want to start the journey of getting one myself. Sitting on 73 base str as an elvaan thf/nin, I'd love that modifier on a dagger ws.

Grats 2 u btw.

[aurik]

I think STR mod is great news, personally.

Remember that fSTR in xp/hnm situations is not going to be capped, so it will affect several of variables simultaneously: attack, fSTR, and the WS mods.

At a 4:1 ratio of str->fSTR plus .83*6=~.5 str mod, 4 str -> 3 base dmg -> 9 WS-modded damage = 9 total increase, plus the enhancement to pDIF, which even if "relatively minor" is pretty significant seeing as you multiply it by ~200-300+.

Contrast if dex was the 60% mod, 4 dex -> 2 base dmg -> 6 WS-modded damage + 4 from SA = 10 total increase.

Does the pDIF enhancement from stacking strength instead of dex, when multiplied by 200-300, exceed the 2-3 damage from 1 extra base damage? I think it would.

As an aside, until we started testing, I didn't realize that dex wasn't multiplied by fTP with SA+WS. So having high pDIF as a thf is really important to multiply the huge dex mod on SA+WS which, even on a highly-modded WS like mercy stroke, is responsible for half the damage. No wonder thf/wars pwn shit with zerk'd WS.

[Eaglestrike]

As an aside, until we started testing, I didn't realize that dex wasn't multiplied by fTP with SA+WS. So having high pDIF as a thf is really important to multiply the huge dex mod on SA+WS which, even on a highly-modded WS like mercy stroke, is responsible for half the damage. No wonder thf/wars pwn shit with zerk'd WS.

All SA and TA do are add to WDMG. Each point of Dex is another point of damage to your weapon for that next action when SA is activated.

[aurik]

As an aside, until we started testing, I didn't realize that dex wasn't multiplied by fTP with SA+WS. So having high pDIF as a thf is really important to multiply the huge dex mod on SA+WS which, even on a highly-modded WS like mercy stroke, is responsible for half the damage. No wonder thf/wars pwn shit with zerk'd WS.

All SA and TA do are add to WDMG. Each point of Dex is another point of damage to your weapon for that next action when SA is activated.

That's not quite true for WS. Let me explain:
I used to think a SA WS dmg looked like this
DMG = fTP * pDIF * (WD + fSTR + DEX + MOD)
which meant that you get a sexy fTP bonus to your dex if you use something with "not-1.0-mod"

However, after oneshotting bunnies for an hour and reporting SA WS dmg, I noticed that the equation wasn't right at all; multiplying his dex by 3 made the predicted damage cap completely wrong.

What the game is actually doing is this:
DMG = pDIF * (DEX + fTP * (WD + fSTR + MOD))

For stuff with 1.0 modifier there's no visible difference. However, as you increase fTP, you will notice that the extra damage due to dex is still only pDIF * DEX; it doesn't scale with fTP at all. I assume that the placement of AGI with Trick Attack is the same.

[Eaglestrike]

If that is how it works, I've got something to say to a certain poster on Alla about this...lol...

I think more testing needs to be done though, I'm still not 100% that's how it works. Most thf's will tell you that you use DE for exp/solo and SB for HNM, because SB has a higher fTP and increases the effect of SATA more than DE's 1.1875.

[Krandor]

lol Wafik, I like your WS macro. In the case that someone in PT is too polite to check you, you let em know right up front that you're sporting Relic. I would too... >.>

Think that's mostly cause he can't auto-translate Mercy Stroke :/

[aurik]

If that is how it works, I've got something to say to a certain poster on Alla about this...lol...

I think more testing needs to be done though, I'm still not 100% that's how it works. Most thf's will tell you that you use DE for exp/solo and SB for HNM, because SB has a higher fTP and increases the effect of SATA more than DE's 1.1875.

I don't trust "most" of any class of people to be competent at knowing what is going on.

All the data you need to come to the same conclusion as me is in the OP. Take a good look at the numbers; they CLEARLY support DEX being outside of the fTP-multiplied block.

[divisortheory]

If that is how it works, I've got something to say to a certain poster on Alla about this...lol...

All TSP does is memorize formulas that other people figure out and then tell anyone who posts contrary evidence "just look at the formula, it's right there".

Assuming, of course, that's who you're talking about. Classic case of someone who knows how to crunch numbers but doesn't know how to look at the way shit actually works and make real observations.

[Eaglestrike]

If that is how it works, I've got something to say to a certain poster on Alla about this...lol...

All TSP does is memorize formulas that other people figure out and then tell anyone who posts contrary evidence "just look at the formula, it's right there".

Assuming, of course, that's who you're talking about. Classic case of someone who knows how to crunch numbers but doesn't know how to look at the way shit actually works and make real observations.

Nah, RVW this time. I was arguing SA then DE is basically same damage as SA+DE and he was giving me all sorts of stuff about fTP.

I think you're right Aurik, I'll go play a bit and confirm it for myself. The only thing I'm not sure about now is why SATASB > SATADE on HNM mobs (when no bard is present for the extra DE hits to matter). I'd assume the dex 30 + chr40 vs dex50 mods of the ws's would be minor but I think using sushi on gods I have a 1-200 dmg difference with SB winning...

[Aladwar]

Memorize? He probably copies/pastes it from a text file. :/

[aurik]

If that is how it works, I've got something to say to a certain poster on Alla about this...lol...

All TSP does is memorize formulas that other people figure out and then tell anyone who posts contrary evidence "just look at the formula, it's right there".

Assuming, of course, that's who you're talking about. Classic case of someone who knows how to crunch numbers but doesn't know how to look at the way shit actually works and make real observations.

Nah, RVW this time. I was arguing SA then DE is basically same damage as SA+DE and he was giving me all sorts of stuff about fTP.

I think you're right Aurik, I'll go play a bit and confirm it for myself. The only thing I'm not sure about now is why SATASB > SATADE on HNM mobs (when no bard is present for the extra DE hits to matter). I'd assume the dex 30 + chr40 vs dex50 mods of the ws's would be minor but I think using sushi on gods I have a 1-200 dmg difference with SB winning...

A good test vehicle for those of you without a Mandau is Full Swing. Can thf use full swing? Here's the mods for it:

フルスイング 1.00 3.00 5.00 ×1 STR_50

Just save up 200% TP and you'll see that stacking dex doesn't add 9 dmg (pDIF * fTP) but rather only 3 dmg. Save up 300% TP and you'll see that you STILL only get 3 dmg per dex rather than 15.

Edit: nvm thf can't use full swing D:
Look for a WS that has large fTP and doesn't have dex as a mod, it makes it much easier to demonstrate.

[Nagamaki]

THF has no natural staff skill.