So Wafik got a Mandau...

[aurik]

I think it was stated that the Poison was 10 HP a tic, whether it overwrites normal Poison or not I don't know.

In brenner it was 10/tic. Probably the same in PvM.

Dunno if it overwrites.

Let me see if I can get the Additional: poison rate from this data I have.
Rate was 4.2% on Mandau swings only.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Poison proc rate? Poison potency? Ability of poison to be overwritten by magic spell? Ability of poison to overwrite poison inflicted by magic spell?

Brenner!

Also, I'd like to see a Mercy Stroke with soul voiced Heculean Etudes against a Diatryma. Finally, some parses Mandau/Blau vs. Mandau/Sirocco would be nice to see which puts out higher DoT

I seriously don't get it. Why use those over THF/WAR Mandau onry. THF wont pull hate, you can trick stuff onto others to have them keep hate. Mandau is held back by those (maybe not blau, since it enhances mandau). With a dagger like that, you want as many swings as possible of it.

[Eaglestrike]

Poison proc rate? Poison potency? Ability of poison to be overwritten by magic spell? Ability of poison to overwrite poison inflicted by magic spell?

Brenner!

Also, I'd like to see a Mercy Stroke with soul voiced Heculean Etudes against a Diatryma. Finally, some parses Mandau/Blau vs. Mandau/Sirocco would be nice to see which puts out higher DoT

I seriously don't get it. Why use those over THF/WAR Mandau onry. THF wont pull hate, you can trick stuff onto others to have them keep hate. Mandau is held back by those (maybe not blau, since it enhances mandau). With a dagger like that, you want as many swings as possible of it.

Thief won't pull hate on what? I have hate pretty often when I tp burn. Throwing down a 1k+ ws early does that, considering THF has +enmity on various gears that other DD's wouldn't normally use. When I get Mandau I'm sure I'll do some thf/war sessions (maybe thf/war with Mandau if RDM/BRD/COR backline and only 3 heavy DD's in, PLENTY of mp) but I think for normal tp burn parties /nin is still the way to go.

[divisortheory]

Poison proc rate? Poison potency? Ability of poison to be overwritten by magic spell? Ability of poison to overwrite poison inflicted by magic spell?

Brenner!

Also, I'd like to see a Mercy Stroke with soul voiced Heculean Etudes against a Diatryma. Finally, some parses Mandau/Blau vs. Mandau/Sirocco would be nice to see which puts out higher DoT

I seriously don't get it. Why use those over THF/WAR Mandau onry. THF wont pull hate, you can trick stuff onto others to have them keep hate. Mandau is held back by those (maybe not blau, since it enhances mandau). With a dagger like that, you want as many swings as possible of it.

One reason is that the damage of the offhand dagger calculates in the equation for how much your weapon skill will do. Having 2 very high base D daggers has the potential to produce some very high numbers for Dancing Edges, etc. I'm sure THF/WAR Mandau only is excellent, but needs to be parsed because it isn't obvious which will be better.

[Ichthyos]

Why are people still using Sirocco after DW/TP nerf (other than for sentimental value)? There was a clear reason to use it before--to cheat the TP floor... but now, higher delay knives are much more viable.

Wouldn't the following combinations be ranked as follows, from highest DoT to lowest?
Mandau + Blau
Mandau + P.Harpe/Harpe
Mandau + Sirocco or Thief's Knife

[NynJa]

I wouldnt offhand a harpe. Regardless of the TP changes, thats just too high.

I'd say Mandau + Blau as the ultimate thf/nin combination. Right there alone is Attack+36 and Accuracy+5.

[Lordwafik]

The question behind offhanding, or going dagger shield, is "will my offhand's strike be worth losing, for a bonus in __________ (whatever the shield stats are". Alot of the time on thief you do triple attack on WS's, and alot of the time it's not worth losing out for a shield.

I pull hate lots, and I have -3 enmity in merits, heck I pulled hate off a nin and pld just TP'ing.

True, you'd like the mandau to be used as often as possible while TP'ing, but losing dual weild and a nice offhand is not so special when trying to spam mercy stroke as much as possible (which is the reason you dual weild, faster TP gain potential like when you triple attack on both hands, etc).

Poison : Poison has a really high proc rate. If the monster is already poisoned by the mandau, it will not proc, if it's not poisoned, within a strikes it'll become poisoned again. Ballista showed 10 poison/tic. BLM poison overwrites mandau poison.

Mandau poison indeed is the most lame feature on the knife, but that's the last reason i'd get this for I'd rather "Mob evasion down" or even defence down, but im not losing any sleep over it. The good on this dagger outweighs the bad.

[kareface]

I don't play thf too often, but with the jobs I do play, in a normal TP burn DoT > max WS damage. I'm not stating anything here everyone doesn't already know. With /nin and a sup. earring, your getting a nice DW level, and that slight bonus will help DoT by allowing you to swing 2 higher delay damage weapons more often. So its not just the damage the weapon adds over the loss of zerk, but the extra swings with no relative damage reduction on the weapon. On top of the fact your adding the offhand swing on the WS.

Blinks are always peechy too.

[NynJa]

Thief isnt most jobs....

You're not gonna DoT > WS dmg shit with D28 weapons...

[kareface]

Im not really asking the questions for my thf, im asking them for my main.

[Rawk]

Stack up on INT gear so the poison is 50/tick!

Yea I just made that up

[Isildur]

Stack up on INT gear so the poison is 50/tick!

Yea I just made that up

have to sub Uragnite to make it work

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

As for THF pulling hate early on... well I'd imagine that not wearing the enmity+ stuff early and using trick for early WSes would more than suffice and lead to higher DoT overall. And even if you DO pull hate, THF evasion is nuts and you will dodge a good amount of attacks, enough for a WAR, NIN, or PLD to get hate back, not to mention you shouldnt get hate much if you use TA efficiently and that amount is easily healable. I find that when its all /NIN melees in TP burns and BRD+RDM the RDM is standing on a TON of extra MP. Might as well make use of it to up your damage eh?

Double Attack+Zerk = awesome.

[epigram]

Please go level a support job maxx before you say something stupid like that again.

[Jeryhn]

Please go level a support job maxx before you say something stupid like that again.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I can barely get enough MP on imp/puk burns. If your RDM is sitting there will full MP, he is AFK.

Ninjaedit: Grats to Wafik on Mandau.

[Viq]

I'm not a THF, but I spend about 80% of my time in-game with one. She has a Stylet (uses Stylet/THF Knife when we farm) and loves it, but I never see it come up in threads like this. Is it really not worth considering compared to sirocco and blau? I can see the obvious appeal of Blau, but with TP change I don't see why Sirocco would be better anymore (same as someone pointed out a few posts ago.) Again, I'm not a THF so I don't really know the in's and out's of this, but was just curious.

PS-> grat wafik 8)

[shihei]

*Does, 1 extra TP, maybe, sometimes, occasionally beat out attacking marginally faster?*

this question's right up there with meaning of life, RIGHT?

[Nagamaki]

For the sake of doing a bit of math but before I go and calculate anything based on possibly wrong info, would anyone care to look over these assumptions and correct anything they know is wrong :

Dual Wield I = 10% delay reduction
Dual Wield II = 5% delay reduction
Suppanomimi = ?% delay reduction (don't have this one)

Base WAR Double Attack rate = 10%
Base THF Triple Attack rate = 10%
Homam Corazza Triple Attack rate = 5% (have)
Brutal Earring Double Attack rate = 5% (have)

I'd rather test all this to certainty myself but its not particularly convenient on 360 (used to be PS2, only played PC from NA release to PS2 NA release, I don't game on PC enough to justify spending on a monster).

[divisortheory]

Sirocco's Additional Effect proc is 100%, and while you might not think it's much, when you consider that dagger strikes are by nature low damage, and that you're adding a constant number to every single hit (sometimes a number that is as much as 50-60% of your normal dagger hits), the Sirocco can increase DoT considerably just from the additional effect proc.

[aurik]

Suppa-5% (All DW items except Sarashi are 5%, I think. Sarashi is 1%)
Triple Attack- I always thought this was base 5% (making it equivalent to DA, since the effect is twice as potent)

---

Hate to say it, but I think almost 100% of the KS99 weapons are outdated now. They used to be damn good and damn rare, but now most of them have a better or equal alternative that is easy to get.

Of the ones you hear most:

Blau > Stylet
Hagun > Shinsoku
Senj = Unsho

Add to the fact that 80% of them are extremely difficult to sell, and a few are merely "difficult" to sell, and I don't see the attraction of doing KS99s anymore.