Hate Loss?

[Ruffles]

When a mob hits you, you loose hate, I'm wondering is the hate loss dependent on the dmg taken or is it just based on the # of times hit?

Ie. PLD 1 and PLD 2 have the exact amount of hate, PLD 1 takes 25 dmg and PLD takes 250dmg do they have the same amount of hate still or does PLD 1 now have more hate?

What about critical hits and spells casted on the PLDs?

[Erza]

More damage taken reduces enmity

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Consensus is that hate loss when hit is based on percent of your HP lost IE if you have 1000 HP and get hit for 100 you lose more hate than somebody getting hit for 100 with 1500 HP.

[Kaylia]

Hp taken is probably equivalent to dmg dealt in term of creating/removing hate in the equation. Maybe I'm totally off tho

[Wizerd]

Consensus is that hate loss when hit is based on percent of your HP lost IE if you have 1000 HP and get hit for 100 you lose more hate than somebody getting hit for 100 with 1500 HP.

No, not really.

The amount of hate you lose is directly proportional to the damage you take. Race or HP amounts don't affect it.

[Priran]

I've noticed and generally follow:

Hate from Damage Dealt = |Damage Taken| = .5(Cure)

[BRP]

I'm no man of parses, but I think that the color/range of your HP might also effect how much hate is lost by being hit. I believe lower the HP the more hate you lose.

[Ruffles]

What about dmg taken from spells? Ie Firaga III from Tiamat

[Demosthenes]

I'm no man of parses, but I think that the color/range of your HP might also effect how much hate is lost by being hit. I believe lower the HP the more hate you lose.

don't you mean "The lower your hp, the more the healer is curing, thusly making more hate for the healer to the point of surpassing the person getting attacked"?

[Jeryhn]

I personally believe that both how much you actually are hit for, along with a combination of how many times you are hit causes hate to deteriorate. However, the damage aspect of hate loss seems far more "powerful" than the actual number of times you are hit.

I've seen it happen plenty of times when a mob would come hit me after I drop a big Curebomb with Stoneskin on, hits me for 0, and then runs off to hit someone else.

[Cylo]

I want to back this up with numbers, but I'll post my useless opinion in the hopes that someone else will have solid proof to backup my theory

In my experience leveling BST, I would say:

Enmity is lost based on the HP range of damage done.


If you watch you character's animation when you get hit, there are varying degrees to which you react to the strike. If you see your character get smacked backwards, it means you lost a lot of hate. If you see a little reaction, you lost little or no hate from the strike. So yes, critical hits taken reduce hate more than any other hit. Not sure how to tell how much hate was lost on spells, but spells and job abilities don't follow the same hate rules.

[Krandor]

Wouldn't you technically be losing more hate because you got hit harder?

Sorry if misunderstood what you said there, but that's what I got out of reading it.

[Cylo]

Yeah, but I think there is a range of damage taken associated with hate loss (example: 40DMG taken may be equal to 50DMG taken -- in terms of hate lost), so the penguin might be right... it may be based on % of your current hp, or some other factor.

[Yvonne]

Yeah, you lose enmity equal to how much damage you take. Just like most stats in the game, I don't have the equation, but I do have examples from experience.

When I was kiting Kirin around a few weeks ago and got bound, the whm on my pt went AFK and I had 0 erase. During that time, Kirin went ape shit and hammered away with Deadly Hold, Stone V, etc for about a minute or so until the other Ninja was able to get it off of me. For the remainder of the fight, my provokes did nothing. It barely had any effect on him. Keep in mind this happened after eating Astral Flow too.

I started Kirin from start to finish without dying, but since I took so much damage while being bound, Kirin basically cleared my Enmity.

[Garret]

In my experience I would say there's a definite curve to whatever the equation is.

If you take Stonega IV to the face, from Kirin, for instance and take let's say 1500 or so damage, chances are it's going to be a while before you can get back in the hate que compared to simply taking 5 of his other attacks for say 300 damage each. Not neccesarily the best example since time is involved in both.

But I would say that as the damage in a single hit increases you lose significantly more hate.

Although there are times when I think a mob just wants to kill you. For instance, on Kirin, as pld, on multiple occasions my hate was not incredibly well locked and then due to some unlucky kiting circumstances, or me screwing up, I would just start getting railed. Now normally I would feel like I should simply lose hate due to the all the damage, but at times Kirin would simply keep attacking for no reason I could fathom. Other mobs seem to do this as well at times, although I can't give any solid rhyme or reason to it when it does happen.

Hate / Enmity / Hate-Loss are, I imagine, a relatively complex set of equations and I think it's hard to really fully quantify them other than some basic guiding principals.

[Sylvrdragon]

People often go on about how Throat Stab is hate erase, this isn't the case, its just because it did so much damage (Or so high of a percentage of damage) that the mob immediately turns from you, as you will notice, if you solo a Tonberry and he uses it, he doesn't turn yellow...

This is why I don't freak out when I pull a some hate on most HNMs, because he'll likely just smack me around a couple times and go back to whatever he was doing before. (Its curing yourself up afterward that is the mistake, just use Regen or a couple small cures to get yourself out of the Red, and in case of AOEs, GTFO until you can Regen/Med to full)

[Wizerd]

People often go on about how Throat Stab is hate erase, this isn't the case, its just because it did so much damage (Or so high of a percentage of damage) that the mob immediately turns from you, as you will notice, if you solo a Tonberry and he uses it, he doesn't turn yellow...

This is why I don't freak out when I pull a some hate on most HNMs, because he'll likely just smack me around a couple times and go back to whatever he was doing before. (Its curing yourself up afterward that is the mistake, just use Regen or a couple small cures to get yourself out of the Red, and in case of AOEs, GTFO until you can Regen/Med to full)

Obviously you've never been throat stabbed twice in a duo without cures. If you have, say, 10 HP left and he throat stabs you, it'll do next to no damage, but it still turns away from you to the next highest hated player. Mobs with hate reset moves don't go yellow if you're solo, since there is always that minimal hate still there like the hate you get from resting when someone passes you with a monster. For example, if you're soloing Ullikummi and he Heavy Strikes you (assuming there is no one else in the zone with hate, even those you may have passed when pulling), then he still follows you, instead of going yellow. If he does go yellow, it's due to the natural hate loss problem that statues tend to have when kiting sometimes.

[Priran]

People often go on about how Throat Stab is hate erase, this isn't the case, its just because it did so much damage (Or so high of a percentage of damage) that the mob immediately turns from you, as you will notice, if you solo a Tonberry and he uses it, he doesn't turn yellow...

...No, it's complete hate erase for its target. Go solo an Antica and have it use Sandtrap, a hate reset move that does barely any damage, and see if it goes yellow.

[Kwijiboe]

I think it's based on HP/HP and % of life lost- for both gaining hate and losing hate.

High HP, therefore, would be best for surviving the hit and less hate lost from the % of HP lost per hit.

Black mages tend to lose hate after they are beat to 20HP, which is a substantial % of their HP, not always the case, but usually the monster stops attacking them and moves to the next in line with hate.

BLMs, Damage dealers gain hate depending on how much of a % they do to the mob in one action.. and those actions add up. But if an action does a large amount of % to a mob, it gains more hate.

Only example I can think of is if a damage dealer or BLM does 90% of dmg to a mob and after this, a PLD or a NIN sits there and vokes and uses all abilities, it usually does not come off the person that did the 90% DMG to the mob's full health.. PLD usually cannot hold hate with lower leveled mobs for example, because the % of dmg to the mob's MAX HP dealt is greater.

My theory is hate loss and hate is all based on HP/MAXHP and those percentages. Gaining hate is relatively the same, damage dealt or HP cured-- In percentages, and enmity EQ as another factor.

[DrObvious]

Consensus is that hate loss when hit is based on percent of your HP lost IE if you have 1000 HP and get hit for 100 you lose more hate than somebody getting hit for 100 with 1500 HP.

There is no such consensus. I have asked the tanks in my ls what they thought about this idea and not one has ever agreed with it.

People often go on about how Throat Stab is hate erase, this isn't the case, its just because it did so much damage (Or so high of a percentage of damage) that the mob immediately turns from you, as you will notice, if you solo a Tonberry and he uses it, he doesn't turn yellow...

Mobs can turn yellow when people still have hate on them, I don't see the connection you're trying to make.