PS3 FFVII!?

[Eaglestrike]

That didn't look like cure, no materia was present at the time, it looked more like the lifestream (although you could argue that it is cure essentially), still wasn't what I was looking for although it looked sweet.

There was a materia in the pond in the Church.

Aeris used it (in theory I guess) on Cloud and since she's uber it cured his Geostigma too.

[Eternus]

They are still RPGs, because the games are there to allow to you get into the roll of the character(s) you play as, although it's not so traditional when the main character talks. You could say that about most games, but most other genres don't go into detail about their characters.

Only true RPGs that japan releases are the ones that have silent protangonists (CT/CC/Suiko/etc).

Nope those aren't RPGs.. a RPG is Fallout or the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons. Where my actions aren't set and I can do things like kill key storyline figures and the story is forced to change based upon my actions. I play a role, and choose for myself whether I am evil, neutral or good and to what degree. Playing a role means taking an active part in the role and your actions define your role... not having someone script out all your actions and story ahead of time. Just because it is a silent protagonist doesn't mean it is a true RPG at all. CT/CC sure as hell aren't RPGs. You need to go out and play a real RPG for once. RPGs are for people that use their imagination, not have some company feed them a story and have no choice in how the story really plays out.

[Elcura]

They are still RPGs, because the games are there to allow to you get into the roll of the character(s) you play as, although it's not so traditional when the main character talks. You could say that about most games, but most other genres don't go into detail about their characters.

Only true RPGs that japan releases are the ones that have silent protangonists (CT/CC/Suiko/etc).

Nope those aren't RPGs.. a RPG is Fallout or the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons. Where my actions aren't set and I can do things like kill key storyline figures and the story is forced to change based upon my actions. I play a role, and choose for myself whether I am evil, neutral or good and to what degree. Playing a role means taking an active part in the role and your actions define your role... not having someone script out all your actions and story ahead of time. Just because it is a silent protagonist doesn't mean it is a true RPG at all. CT/CC sure as hell aren't RPGs. You need to go out and play a real RPG for once. RPGs are for people that use their imagination, not have some company feed them a story and have no choice in how the story really plays out.

If you wanted to get technical that's fine, but they still stand as RPGs, cause they're role playing games, maybe not in the sense you're thinking off, but they are to me, so it works out.

I'd forgotten about paper and pen RPGs, but we're talking about consoles here, not paper and pen.

[Kaylia]

a RPG is Fallout or the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons.

You should see how linear official D&D scenario are. You're "free" to do anything, except not really.


Technically, RPG now refer to anything with character customization and/or progression through many level.

[MisterBob]

Actually in the field of game design, it's like this now:

RPG is the general term now accepted for games like the Final Fantasy series. Even though the acronym doesn't really make sense, games of this nature are now defined as being in the "RPG Genre". Games like Zelda contain fundamental differences that place them in the "Action-Adventure" genre. Yes, the names don't make perfect sense, but because they are the most commonly used terms, they have BECOME the correct term in the industry, so quit bitching. If you went to work for a game designing company like Square, they'd tell you to shut the fuck up and quit wasting their time if you kept trying to convince them that FFVII was not a "True RPG".

RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons are now generally referred to as Pencil and Paper RPGs.


Don't like it? Too bad. It's the industry standard now and whining on a forum doesn't do shit about it.

[Eternus]

a RPG is Fallout or the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons.

You should see how linear official D&D scenario are. You're "free" to do anything, except not really.


Technically, RPG now refer to anything with character customization and/or progression through many level.

Actually official D&D books have several story trees and your actions basically can make you go in several different directions depending on your actions in a given situation. You do different things depending if you are evil, good or whatever alignment you are. It changes how people react to you and what quests/goals you need to finish. It is obvious you have never played GURPs (Generic Universal Role Playing) or D&D much if at all. Your choices are free, but there are almost always consequences for your actions. Only lately have they been making official D&D games that aren't RPGs and water it down by not giving you freedom.

Any DM worth a shit doesn't use the official stuff and actually would have the imagination to customize the game to the way the players are playing their roles. A room full of asshole RPers hell bent on killing everyone in the city isn't going to work out well when your DM made all the pivotal storyline NPCs in that city and you murder them all. A good DM is what matters and they should be prepared to adjust the story to the playstyles of the players (be prepared for asses who want to ruin your story).

I see KotoR and Fable as being closer to RPGs.. even those are a little linear. Well at least you are not forced into the role of a hero out to save the world.. you can be the villian just as easily. They just don't have the detail a game like Fallout had.. that is what you get from watered down console gaming though. Hard to do that as most cases it would fuck up the game if you killed a pivotal storyline NPC... they can't react on the fly to the shit people can pull like a DM can. All a programmer can do is program in consequences for actions like that, or just make the person unkillable. Last real RPG released was Oblivion, in that you were pretty free to do what you wanted with a few exceptions put in so you couldn't kill people that prevented you from finishing the game.

I do not give a shit what todays gamers say about RPGs. The term Role Playing is there for a reason. I love the Final Fantasy series, but I would never call it Role Playing... same goes for alot of games I like. Just because dumbasses put Korn in the metal section does not mean Korn is metal.. guys at record stores can't read music to know any better. Same goes for RPG classification. If it contains no role playing whatsoever then make up a new name for it.

[Elcura]

Well, it's still the point where it has become industry standard, even if the term is wrong there is not much you can do about it.

[MisterBob]

Well, it's still the point where it has become industry standard, even if the term is wrong there is not much you can do about it.

Exactly, so quit whining whenever you hear people use the correct term definied by the industry that creates the games.

[rahskala]

Could you imagine seeing All Creation, Doom to the Living, Final Heaven, Urgamax and Highwind? I wanted too at least see all, if not just one.

Didn't Tifa use this during the church fight scene? I didn't really verify it myself, but a friend of mine mentioned it. Could be wrong.

[Shaede]

I know this is a side track, but I have to reply to this:

Actually official D&D books have several story trees and your actions basically can make you go in several different directions depending on your actions in a given situation. You do different things depending if you are evil, good or whatever alignment you are. It changes how people react to you and what quests/goals you need to finish. It is obvious you have never played GURPs (Generic Universal Role Playing) or D&D much if at all. Your choices are free, but there are almost always consequences for your actions. Only lately have they been making official D&D games that aren't RPGs and water it down by not giving you freedom.

Meh, freedom of choice is overrated. There's still very real and very physical barriers. Secondly, the campaign modules you can buy are always watered down and linear. Ultimatly your alignment and many choices you make during a typical campaign session don't change a lot of the core aspects of any session, because even humans have their limits (and no sane DM would create 10 different campaigns to be prepared for the 1 scenario the players will go to).

Any DM worth a shit doesn't use the official stuff and actually would have the imagination to customize the game to the way the players are playing their roles. A room full of asshole RPers hell bent on killing everyone in the city isn't going to work out well when your DM made all the pivotal storyline NPCs in that city and you murder them all. A good DM is what matters and they should be prepared to adjust the story to the playstyles of the players (be prepared for asses who want to ruin your story).

Woah, I'd hate to have you as a player in one of my campaigns. The play/DM relationship is pivotal for a good campaign. If you go around undermining all the DM's work, that's no better than a DM adjusting encounters that always play on the party's weaknesses. I'd end any session that the players decided to detour on such an extent that it disrupted the complete and total flow of a campaign by doing something as extreme as killing all the important NPCs.

In short, asses who wish to ruin a D&D session should be kicked out of the session to make room for someone who wouldn't run everyone else's fun.

[Elcura]

Could you imagine seeing All Creation, Doom to the Living, Final Heaven, Urgamax and Highwind? I wanted too at least see all, if not just one.

Didn't Tifa use this during the church fight scene? I didn't really verify it myself, but a friend of mine mentioned it. Could be wrong.

Not really, she used fighting moves reminiscant (sp) of limit breaks (like Dolphin Kick and Meteor Strike) but they didn't have that glow around them so it's hard to tell if she did a limit break to most people.

[Taban]

She used Somersault and Meteor Strike

Or I always assumed that's what she did, could have just been random moves I guess.

[Epical]

She used Somersault and Meteor Strike

Or I always assumed that's what she did, could have just been random moves I guess.

I believe she also used Beat Rush at the very start of the fight.

[Eaglestrike]

Tifa also 'lost' the fight, so her doing her final limit and losing would be kinda...meh.

Only Cloud got in a big fight so only he got to use his final limit. If there were to be another that had big fights with the other char's I'm sure we'd see more limits and possibly finishing moves depending on how big the fight is. How they threw limits into fights like that was well done imo.

[Elcura]

Tifa also 'lost' the fight, so her doing her final limit and losing would be kinda...meh.

Only Cloud got in a big fight so only he got to use his final limit. If there were to be another that had big fights with the other char's I'm sure we'd see more limits and possibly finishing moves depending on how big the fight is. How they threw limits into fights like that was well done imo.

You kinda made my point for me, the other chars don't get into a fight bigger then Bahamut so you don't see anything other then random attacks.

Even though Tifa lost the fight, she could've done Final Heaven against so many people (Loz, Kadaj, Sephiroth and Bahamut) but cause the story is stupid they had to make it "Clouds fight" so only he fought Kadaj and Seph, Yuffie was even on the airship with a bucket load of materia (I got excited) BUT IN THE END IT WAS USELESS!

I was so sad =\

[Eternus]

Well, it's still the point where it has become industry standard, even if the term is wrong there is not much you can do about it.

Exactly, so quit whining whenever you hear people use the correct term definied by the industry that creates the games.

You call it whining, even though it is text based and has no voice inflection to indicate whining. I call you a fag who got sand in his vagina because I hit a nerve and you know I am right. Industry people can say that all they want, they know what Role Playing stands for and they are comprimising themselves every time they use the term incorrectly. They are just catering to the sheepish masses who want watered down RPGs and forgo true Role Playing to do so. Anything for money.

I said nothing about freedom.. you are bound by the role you choose.. if you choose to play an evil bastard.. you better act like one. If you are evil you should expect consequences. You can go the thoughtless killing machine route or be a behind the scenes manipulator type. You actually play the game though and determine how the story plays out.

Shaede is one of the DMs I was talking about then. Totally lazy and not open to change or imaginative enough to anticipate the actions of a total jackass. I was a DM and had to deal with my friend Tom who always plays either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil alignment. I was the DM... kept me on my toes and made necessary I had a few backup plans. Hell at least the guy played a non standard alignment... and actually played the role correctly beyond just using an alignment because it sounds cool. He inspired me to create a Chaotic Netural character later on. I think people who just go True Neutral to Lawful Good are sheeps... they go with the cookie cutter setup and never explore the truely fun parts of D&D. Playing the good guy gets old after a while... and so does the plain bad guy as well. Use some fucking imagination people lmao.

A FF7 remake would be fun and nostalgic, but obviously would not bring anything new to the table. I would buy it anyways.. if I buy a PS3 even. A FF7 remake alone would not sell me on a $600 console. Advent Chilldren was cool, but the story was crap and the action scenes were the best part of the movie. The English version really did not make the movie any better either... I didn't laugh once at the corny ass jokes. Happy I have the Japanese version subtitled and didn't have to pay for it.

[Eaglestrike]

Tifa also 'lost' the fight, so her doing her final limit and losing would be kinda...meh.

Only Cloud got in a big fight so only he got to use his final limit. If there were to be another that had big fights with the other char's I'm sure we'd see more limits and possibly finishing moves depending on how big the fight is. How they threw limits into fights like that was well done imo.

You kinda made my point for me, the other chars don't get into a fight bigger then Bahamut so you don't see anything other then random attacks.

Even though Tifa lost the fight, she could've done Final Heaven against so many people (Loz, Kadaj, Sephiroth and Bahamut) but cause the story is stupid they had to make it "Clouds fight" so only he fought Kadaj and Seph, Yuffie was even on the airship with a bucket load of materia (I got excited) BUT IN THE END IT WAS USELESS!

I was so sad =\

Yeah, but in the game it was all Cloud + Aeris there. Everyone else was just extra material. I think they stayed true to the game in that regard, though I definately would've liked to see more action with the entire crew together.

It's really hard to go from a game to movie like FF and keep the quality. If they made FF7 a full movie without completely ignoring a lot of stuff, it'd be longer than it takes to beat the game (for some people) it'd be an absolutely sick length. (I'd still watch it >.>) so I think AC was a nice addition to the story that they could do quickly and still get out some nice fight scenes, which they definately had.

And how many games -> movies have shown magic be used nearly as often as is done in the game? Materia may have been huge for success in FF7, but in a movie I doubt it'd be used commonly, it'd just be one of those 'make it or break it' things that wins the fight for them at the end.

[Elcura]

Tifa also 'lost' the fight, so her doing her final limit and losing would be kinda...meh.

Only Cloud got in a big fight so only he got to use his final limit. If there were to be another that had big fights with the other char's I'm sure we'd see more limits and possibly finishing moves depending on how big the fight is. How they threw limits into fights like that was well done imo.

You kinda made my point for me, the other chars don't get into a fight bigger then Bahamut so you don't see anything other then random attacks.

Even though Tifa lost the fight, she could've done Final Heaven against so many people (Loz, Kadaj, Sephiroth and Bahamut) but cause the story is stupid they had to make it "Clouds fight" so only he fought Kadaj and Seph, Yuffie was even on the airship with a bucket load of materia (I got excited) BUT IN THE END IT WAS USELESS!

I was so sad =\

Yeah, but in the game it was all Cloud + Aeris there. Everyone else was just extra material. I think they stayed true to the game in that regard, though I definately would've liked to see more action with the entire crew together.

It's really hard to go from a game to movie like FF and keep the quality. If they made FF7 a full movie without completely ignoring a lot of stuff, it'd be longer than it takes to beat the game (for some people) it'd be an absolutely sick length. (I'd still watch it >.>) so I think AC was a nice addition to the story that they could do quickly and still get out some nice fight scenes, which they definately had.

And how many games -> movies have shown magic be used nearly as often as is done in the game? Materia may have been huge for success in FF7, but in a movie I doubt it'd be used commonly, it'd just be one of those 'make it or break it' things that wins the fight for them at the end.

Well, it was mostly about Cloud, Aeris was there for uhh, 2-3 scenes maybe? I'm sure the idea of Aeris or whatever was present but it still doesn't mean she was an integral part of the plot. If they stayed true to the game in anyway, it would probably be Cloud obsession with Sephiroth keeping him from living/moving on. I would have expected after 2 years from him to be happy and Tifa to be pregnant or have a baby son/daughter.

I'm not saying they had to go overboard with the materia, but seeing a couple spells would've been nice, they DID completely ignore one of the best aspects of the game and reduced it to a mere cameo, much like the rest of the cast. Not many games > movies are RPGs so I can't really say anything (cause I can't remember many that were), in that respect I did expect AC to have more magic, the world's main source of power was Mako energy/Lifestream which is connected to materia.

As a movie, I did enjoy it alot, I loved the fight scenes, the graphics and music, it's just after watching it I knew alot was missing that could've made it absolutely brillient.

Eternus, by now I'd say you were the only person who was whining, whining that RPGs on consoles aren't RPGs. I doubt industry people thought "Hey, this isn't REAL role playing, but we're gonna call it that, JUST to sell games!" It's called role playing games because despite what you say it is reminiscent of true RPGs, and people hate people who are unnessecarily technical. It's not for money, a term for a genre is anything but for money, it's a way to classify the type of game you are interested in.

Not everyone has the time/resources to play a "real" RPG, you can hardly blame someone who doesn't want to play D&D but loves to play DQ, FF and so on because it's more user friendly, quicker to learn, easier to pick and play and can end whenever you want it too, you also don't have to gather other people and create scenarios. It's what everyone wants nowadays, something convienient and fun that doesn't take up too much time.

[Eaglestrike]

The main plot of FF7 was to finish what Aeris started (praying to the white materia, it turning green and calling Holy) and the entire group was just stopping Sephiroth cause he was in the way. The main plot was a focus on Aeris' doing and for some reason only Cloud could defeat Sephiroth and allow what Aeris did go to completion. So it was Aeris + Cloud in the overall plot of "save the planet", just like Cloud gets things done in the movie with the help of Aeris.

Also, not sure if Cloud's fixation with Aeris is love in a romantic sense. But I can't tell the difference between too many voices on the JP version so I can't draw many conclusions from that.

But honestly Tifa does need to beat his ass and take him the altar.