Besieged needs a level minimum.

[Kaylia]

Which is actually a good thing considering you can warp to your home town with the outpost there.

I can also get to my home town by:
Tele-Vahzl to outpost
Tavnzanian Ring to outpost
Tele-mea and run to Buburimu
Homing Ring ftw

can you name a quick run to jeuno ??
Can you name me a reason for a quick run to jeuno other than Limbus?

If you manage to find one, I will just tell you to Tele-Holla and chocobo there. Take a big 6 minutes

Btw, Xarc and Tav are always beastman controlled on my server, or they are 90% of the time since ToA came out.

[Jeryhn]

I agree with a lot of what you say BRP.

Generals should actually lead. Like shout out advice, "Imperial Guard is hurt!", "Assist Immortal Guard!", "Keep the Draugar away from other players!". Morons probably won't listen, but it might get to some people.

This is an excellent idea. On this note, they should also call out for healing should they need it.

SE should of made Al Zahbi only accessable to people +60 in the first place. Like a quest that only people +60 can do. There is no reason why it shouldn't be this way. It doesn't close off any zones and everything in that zone is aimed for high-levels.

BLU, COR and PUP. yea yea, I know all those quests are in Whitegate, but this is the reason why lower levels have access to these areas.

SE should add more beastmen "Generals" and actually name them(so you don't get morons thinking they are fighting the (Mega Boss) and you don't have to deal with people who won't believe the idea of a boss). Once you kill these generals a negative effect is dealth to different monster types. Gravity and "blank becomes intimadated" comes to mind.

I like the intimidation thingy. Our generals, especially, should have natural high intimidation rates. They're the famed Serpent Generals, after all.

As far as enemy Generals go, I believe there are already enemy Generals. They tend to "cheer" the Beastmen on.

[Ringoko]

A bunch of smart crap SE will never implement.

You know how SE likes to approach things. Instead of sitting down and thinking through what's wrong with their game, they just take a baseball bat to the problem. MNKs spamming Asuran Fists? Let's just overhaul TP return on WS and screw over everyone else! RNG the only DD worth a damn? We'll just completely bend them over and make them more inaccurate than a naked DRK. MPK MPK MPK MPK? We'll completely screw over a BST's ability to kill anyone in the game, and that includes RMT! RMT RMT RMT RMT? We've removed 250 billion gil, but don't worry, your friendly RMT farmers are still ruining sky for everyone, and you can't MPK them at all!

[Septimus]

Besieged is really getting too annoying to do, from a smart person's point of view anyway. SE forgets how many god damn morons there are in a sever. People don't understand that if you really want to win, you have to use some form of tactics. Cure NPCs, don't fight skeletons, kite monsters that wipe entire alliances, kill that 'megaboss' thing, ect ect. Really basic stuff, but it's impossible to stop that BLM from nuking Thunder IV on a bomb or that PLD/NIN giving that skeleton enough TP to reach full HP every 30 seconds while killing every taru in a mile. When you try to do something smart, like kite a skeleton around the sqaure buildings, some dumbass cocky lvl 69 MNK claims it and tries to solo it. They should add methods of killing a large amount of monsters without fighting them. Like escort a soldier to a ballista and have him shoot instant kill arrows at them.

...

For the love of god, stop making sense.

All good ideas.

[layoneil]

Your dead monk is just as useful as any other dead monk.

A level 25 white mage can raise, toss a few cure II's, and raise again. When out of mp they can sit down and rest with HEALERS ROLL!! why the hell did you think I said level 20 dumb ass? I also think a lot of mages would be a hell of a lot more happy with a level 20 corsair or level 25 bard in their PT than a pimped out monk.

that's stupid, what makes you think that every Lv 25 WHM in the zone is bumping out a Lv 75 MNK and not a Lv 75 WHM who can actually cast Cure V and have 4x the MP pool?

and if you kill stuff faster, you won't need as much healers overall.

Can you name me a reason for a quick run to jeuno other than Limbus?

besides Limbus being a damn good reason.
1) getting orbs for BCNMs
2) getting Prom-ENM items
3) Rolanberry Bazaars
4) Behemoth

If you manage to find one, I will just tell you to Tele-Holla and chocobo there. Take a big 6 minutes

Mea > Bub takes half that time and Jugner sucks.

[Jeryhn]

Your dead monk is just as useful as any other dead monk.

A level 25 white mage can raise, toss a few cure II's, and raise again. When out of mp they can sit down and rest with HEALERS ROLL!! why the hell did you think I said level 20 dumb ass? I also think a lot of mages would be a hell of a lot more happy with a level 20 corsair or level 25 bard in their PT than a pimped out monk.

that's stupid, what makes you think that every Lv 25 WHM in the zone is bumping out a Lv 75 MNK and not a Lv 75 WHM who can actually cast Cure V and have 4x the MP pool?

and if you kill stuff faster, you won't need as much healers overall.

The goal of Besieged isn't to kill beastmen. Its to keep the Serpent Generals alive. The NPCs in Besieged make up most of the damage dealt to the enemy forces.

[zymurgy]

This pretty much keeps proving the point that should already be obvious to everyone:

Melee = useless & leech
Tanks = useful
Mages = useful
Support = useful

[Priran]

You and Alleya have the loosest definition of gimp I've ever heard
Dune Boots, 5 Kick Merits, and AF2 pants isn't the best combination but it isn't "gimp", SH is only missing 20 ATT from Shura, and I use OHat because Turban isn't enough of an improvement to me to not sell the Gold coins.

Your dead monk is just as useful as any other dead monk.

I don't even die a lot in Besieged (as MNK anyway).

A level 25 white mage can raise, toss a few cure II's, and raise again. When out of mp they can sit down and rest with HEALERS ROLL!! why the hell did you think I said level 20 dumb ass? I also think a lot of mages would be a hell of a lot more happy with a level 20 corsair or level 25 bard in their PT than a pimped out monk.

"A lot of mages" only attend Besieged for the points anyway, which a COR would help more with. I'd like to see what "A lot of mages" would do if everyone in the Besieged was a mage. Gimpy BLM nukes as your only source of damage? Bye bye candescence.

[BRP]

BLU, COR and PUP. yea yea, I know all those quests are in Whitegate, but this is the reason why lower levels have access to these areas.

If you, right now, deleted Al Zahbi, no area but Al Zahbi would be effected. There is two entrances to the two areas right outside Al Zahbi in Whitegate.

Al Zahbi(which is ironic they named the lesser of the two zones Al Zahbi, when the city is named Al Zahbi) has the following uses at the moment: Guilds(that wouldn't be botted by mules if it was +60), Besieged, donations to repair the city(Turban), two additional zones outside, an additional sanction giving NPC, an additional (yet free) Warp taru, and an additional AH that USED to have lower rates. Good stuff, but half of it is 'addtional' and sounds perfect for some people to do some quests to get access to.

EDIT:

Melee = useless & leech
Tanks = useful
Mages = useful
Support = useful

Who deals the damage in that situation?

Also, if you like to sell stuff(AH and Bazaar), do ENMs, PvP, or (H)NMs then Jeuno is better. If you want to exp +70, solo EP-VTs(depending on job), Assault, Besieged, and (I guess) craft. The reason Whitegate wins by default is that it has an instand warp to Jeuno, but it isn't the other way around. I'm hoping SE does something with the three main towns and Tav safehold, because if it was up to me, I'd stay in those all day. I'm hoping the Chocobo Circuit unifies all four cities, and I'd be stupid to hope SE does something with Tav.

[Kaylia]

besides Limbus being a damn good reason.
1) getting orbs for BCNMs
2) getting Prom-ENM items
3) Rolanberry Bazaars
4) Behemoth

#1 #2 and limbus) You can do those thing at the same time. Otherwise, it's a 6min run instead of 2minutes.

#4 Tav ring --> misareau --> qufim is about the same

Mea > Bub takes half that time and Jugner sucks.

Added to the job change needed in your home town, it's about the same. Windy

[epigram]

A lot of mages would do just fine. And the point was, when you die I'm sure you don't care if it was from a level 25 whm or not, furthermore if they are having a good time at level 25 in beseige more fucking power to them. I do think AFK people should be removed from zone, but everyone who is willing to have a little fun in beseige should have that chance.

Oh no the AC is lost, it's a fucking game, it adds to the adventure and fun of it. It's dynamic content, and if it wasn't for the low level alla noobs saying that they wanted invaded cities in the first place you wouldn't of even had this content.

[Priran]

The NPCs in Besieged make up most of the damage dealt to the enemy forces.

Since when?

Every time I see a NPC and a PC fighting the same thing, guess who has hate?

And every time I've seen a General die, it's been because all the mobs they've hit on their ADD rampage through the zone, wherein they hit every mob they can find and change targets before they die, loses hate for a second and clusterfucks them.

If an NPC dies, it doesn't come back. And NPCs die fast.

[BRP]

Oh no the AC is lost, it's a fucking game, it adds to the adventure and fun of it. It's dynamic content, and if it wasn't for the low level alla noobs saying that they wanted invaded cities in the first place you wouldn't of even had this content.

There is more 75s on Allakhazam than there are on this site. Just a fun fact. But to the point, everyone wanted this and anyone who didn't needs to die in a river.

[zymurgy]

I meant the general way the game works, not besieged. For example... blm > you. But blm < * in besieged, so yeah.

[Jeryhn]

The NPCs in Besieged make up most of the damage dealt to the enemy forces.

Since when?

Since melee players die immediately to 4-5k Mijin Gakures and NPCs with 6k-15k HP do not.

Every time I see a NPC and a PC fighting the same thing, guess who has hate?

This is because when a player is fighting a beastman, it retaliates, and the other mobs link to any Beastman in danger, which is the #1 cause for player deaths aside from the big fuckoff AoEs.

I've had situations where I'm assisting the monk in my party using Carbuncle, and all of a sudden, carbuncle is the focus of 6 different mobs. Hate levels seem to be near non-existant in Besieged, and mobs seem to assist each other on one target rather than focus on whoever they should hate the most thanks to Provokes and such. This is why Generals can die quickly if they are not Curebombed.

Suffice to say, that little level 50 WHM casting Cure 3 on a General is more liekly to lead to a successful win than a monk hitting 400 dmg Asurans on mobs with 10k+ HP. Period.

[Nagamaki]

NPCs in Besieged are pretty strong and generals matter, but if you rely on NPCs only to kill the mobs, you're gonna have a damn long Besieged.

Zazarg for example isn't a damage powerhouse compared to a 75 MNK, he has high HP and acc but his damage isn't exactly amazing. Follow him with filters off, punches for 50 WS for 80-300... that's not exactly godly even considering the high level of Besieged mobs, in fact its pretty crappy.

[Priran]

Suffice to say, that little level 50 WHM casting Cure 3 on a General is more liekly to lead to a successful win than a monk hitting 400 dmg Asurans on mobs with 10k+ HP. Period.

Yeah yeah, high Defense, high HP. High attack and accuracy as well. Little known fact about healing 200 when the mob hits for the same, faster, and without MP limitations is that it's also known as delaying the inevitable. Also "useless" if more than one mob is hitting you.

NPCs can't spam Utsu. NPCs can't run to 20' and never see that mob again. (Knowingly, they probably will if they've hit the same target over three times.)

Oh, and once the shock and awe of Walahra Turban wears off and the Al Zahbi defense points drop, you won't see Goblins, BLUs, and Imperials, you'll get useless Qiqirn RNGs and THFs.

[BRP]

It counts on the monster type. On some monsters I see Zazarg doing 110-150 a hit and 400+ Asurans... I even saw a 800 on the mummy guys.

[Jeryhn]

Suffice to say, that little level 50 WHM casting Cure 3 on a General is more liekly to lead to a successful win than a monk hitting 400 dmg Asurans on mobs with 10k+ HP. Period.

Yeah yeah, high Defense, high HP. High attack and accuracy as well. Little known fact about healing 200 when the mob hits for the same, faster, and without MP limitations is that it's also known as delaying the inevitable. Also "useless" if more than one mob is hitting you.

NPCs can't spam Utsu. NPCs can't run to 20' and never see that mob again. (Knowingly, they probably will if they've hit the same target over three times.)

Yes yes, you melees have your uses in Besieged, like being targets of mobs by fighting them so mages aren't.

Still, its time you faced facts. The Raise I you get from a level 25 WHM will be no different from the Raise I you'll get from me, you'll still take it, and you'll still continue to be my meat shield, and hey, you'll be happy about it. While I agree that low-level players should have no place in a high-level event like besieged, level 50 is where I would draw that line.

[othellojr]

NPCs in Besieged are pretty strong and generals matter, but if you rely on NPCs only to kill the mobs, you're gonna have a damn long Besieged.

Zazarg for example isn't a damage powerhouse compared to a 75 MNK, he has high HP and acc but his damage isn't exactly amazing. Follow him with filters off, punches for 50 WS for 80-300... that's not exactly godly even considering the high level of Besieged mobs, in fact its pretty crappy.

Actually I have seen melee not be able to do that much damage to mobs in besieged, so the damage I have seen Zazarg do is pretty good in comparison.