Isnt it depressing to camp the same 3NMS for the past 3yrs?

[Lordwafik]

Unlike the other WoW retards who came to this forum, I can see you're not trying to start a flame war, you just want to see another point of view. I can respect that, and I will give you my point of view.

I haven't been in the FFXI scene for a while, but I do come to these boards every once in a while and see whats new but just about every 10 posts its a nidhogg this, behemoth that or fafnir this thread. FFXI has been out for what about 3yrs going on 4 for NA? Isnt it extremely depressing to have to sit in the same 3 spots everyday for more or less 3hours and camp these things?

100% Agree, some people have moved on, some people have not. Unlike in WoW, you can only take 1 job to 75 on your toon, but I can assure you if you had multiple jobs, you'd go back the next time your LS (or whatever WoW calls it) has someone or a few with a new job at cap.

I mean shouldnt have progression in the game by now have made the drops from these guys obsolete?

SE never beleived in progression upways, making all your previous accomplishments obselete. They understand that people put so many manhours in their item, they're not going to release too much gear that puts other gear to shame.

Examples existed while you were playing : You got leaping boots from a level 11 mob, and there's no other boots in the game with those stats, those can also be used to 75 on a thief. Strider boots (lvl25) from a lvl55 HNM(it's stronger than your average NM).

What SE did instead of upgrade, is sidegrade. So instead of tossing your koenig cuirass, you can have koenig cuirass aswell as the Valor surcoat, when the situation arises for it each one.
Same goes for things like Errant body and Igquira weskit. When you are in a fight that's long and you're satisfied with your current damage output, you use the errant body so you dont pull hate as easy as you do in weskit, due to -enmity. Blahblah.

So really I'm just wondering why do you guys still do it and not move on to...another game or something aside from getting your 9th job to level 75.

I dont feel like going to another game. I'm extremely satisfied in my time i've spent in FFXI, if I didnt enjoy my time i'd have quit, simple. I dont beleive in putting my money/time in something I dont enjoy (hence why I dont have a fulltime HNMLS), so this wouldnt be any different.

Espeically the more hardcore 9-5++ players...why?

Because I like FF, I do other things than stare at 3 kings all day. HNM can blow me, they're nice once in a while, but not every day. I like to exp and get merits, I like to craft here and there, I like killing random shit, i love dynamis, there's more to the game than 3 kings, it's just a shame there's many people who dont understand it.

Many people also think they need to be logged in all day, and to occupy them being logged in all day they have to do something extremely long, otherwise they're not logged in! Kings fit perfectly well into this. I cant think of 1 MMO activity that doesnt get boring after a while , sometimes I login, there's nothing to do, so I just logout and enjoy other non gaming stuff. Other people feel like if they're not logged in helping LS do _______, they're letting them down, so maybe that's a reason people are in the game as long as they are.

I'm not really trying to compare this to WoW but it seems like all MMOs there is a rate of progression in which all item become shit sooner or later, I mean look at EQ the items in there are insane nowadays compared to way back when. Even with WoW the first endgame 40man raid (Molten Core) gear is mostly garbage compared to the newest items in the game and thats only been about a year and half since MC came out. I'm not at all trying to compare FFXI to WoW, but more or less FFXI to all MMOs, where the progression gear? Why should you guys still have to camp those things after so long?

Unlike WoW, FFXI has reached it's maximum level. The devs didnt want to release gear that falsify levels so you can do XXX or YYY better, maybe that's what you like, maybe it's not, matter of opinion, but it's just the way this game was made. Almost entirely side progression instead of overwriting your efforts. I'm not sure about how WoW works, but FFXI is heavily macro'd as you know while you played.

Not nessesarily a bad thing, I'm happy I can use some of my lvl40/50/60 gear at 75, it means 1 less peice of armor I'll need to spend time on. I'd probably get annoyed at gearing up each of my 4 jobs, every time a new set came out for them.


Why should people camp stuff for so long? They don't have to. They want to / choose to / feel as if they're forced to via peer pressure. I took a stand against HNM. I don't hate HNM or HNMLS's, I hate HNMLS leaders who think the LS will crumble if we're not at a camp every single day, there's plenty else to do in FFXI, HNM get boring. I chose not to partake in wasting my hours camping anymore, I do now and then have a feeling to go camp, because my thief needs gear, but it's not as strong of a feeling as it was before. I don't feel like joining another LS at this point in time, my social LS keeps me happy in FFXI now

The ONLY thing that keeps people playing FFXI and SE getting there 15$ every month are insane goals like relic upgrades and abj. bodys that are not even worth the effort and take years to complete.

I disagree. I have a relic and found it to be beyond my expectations. Now here's the thing, I wasnt expecting to do 200 damage a swing as soon as I got it, I kept my expectations realistic. Look at other things in FF, it's a verrrrrrrrry subtle game, HQ are rarely 2 stats higher than their NQ counterparts, etc. Some people liked their relics, some expected to solo IT's with it.


My conclusion, I think it's silly to camp them every single day, but if you look at what people like to do in the game, it's camping kings. CoP went against making 3 kings, they made 4 higher tier dragons, they could have easily made 3 kings on the same teir as the ones we currently have with just as good gear, but they decided against it. They made a game with story/quests/mini NM here and there. Now instead of all that , everyone still flocks to kings.

It's just the community of this game, nothing more and nothing less.

[Vinen]

It's just the community of this game, nothing more and nothing less.

This about sums it up.

[Amarok]

22 is so gay.

[Faris]

but all MMO gets repetitve, all of them have a life span. sooner or later, it just becomes part of ur life, not a game anymore. Scary thing to say but i think for many hardcore players its true. like previous posters said, peer pressure and what not becomes the pirmary trigger for u logging in.

how long is ur average playtime everyday?

mine is 8-12hrs (saaaaaaaaaaaaaad)

and if a person plays a "game" for more than 6hrs (being generous) i seriously believe there is something wrong with him/her.

I think the right advice is not "try another MMO" but to just get out before its too late.

i mean the other day i read about 2 couples playing WoW in a net cafe together leaving their nwe born child for 2-4hrs alone in the apartement. but one day they decided to stay longer cus they had a raid, they ended up staying there for 7+hrs..came back to the apartement the child was dead, i cant remember how though. and there are many many other stories about people losing theirs lives, are doing something extremely absurd like litterally killing some1 over an item or an incident in a game...
well, wait a minute, lots of people get killed over Soccer..hmmm i think i lost my point. w/e dude.

[Tom Chambers]

Well, I think it's the nature of all MMOs to be a fashion show. You want your character to be badass compared to the unwashed masses. That's fine and all, but that's pretty much all there is to it, competition-wise. You could play Madden or NBA Street or something and really utilize some skill, but FFXI (or any MMORPG) doesn't have something similar. No job requires alot of skill, and the only things that will increase your power are items. So...it just feels a little empty on that side. Whereas taking someone to the house in NCAA Football 06 is almost totally dependant upon your respective skills.

Once that really was hammered home for me (it took awhile, what can I say, I'm an idiot) I realized I was left with the community. And while there were a smattering of people that I liked, I had to ask myself if these were the type of people I'd hang out with in real life. I don't watch anime, I don't frequent ymtd, I don't know the names of Japanese models, I can't remember the name of that messageboard people go to to 'pwn' each other with hardcore internet sticks (3r or something? 4mz? I don't know). It just wasn't my cup of tea, and to be honest those types of people annoy me really badly, like a whole world filled with The Simpson's Comic Book Guy. Smug geeks with weird jokes and fetishes and such.

So when I put those two factor together I realized that I should probably stop playing, and I did. But on the other hand, if people I liked played, I'd probably continue on, like alot of people here, indefinetely. I do shit just as mundane or pointless daily with people I like. I wouldn't go to a bar and sit there by myself and drink (usually), but with friends we'll go out almost every day. I, personally, wouldn't go golfing or play raquetball or basketball by myself, but with friends I can spend hours upon hours doing that dumb shit.

FFXI is just an activity that becomes a whole shitload of fun with friends, I'd gather.

EDIT: It's 4chan, it just came to me.

[Koga]

Correction is 100% correct imo, and to add to that, FFXI has a attachment system of sorts. You are 'bound' to that game in a way because you are co-dependant on a lot of things/linkshells/people.

Dynamis/HNM's (even harder NM's)/Sky/Sea/Assault/Linkshells/etc all require a co-dependacy on other people.
Sure it may become repetative at times, but that doesn't stop you because if you didnt go you wouldnt be doing your 'job' per'se.

The only way (which is what happened to me) to truely forget about all the hours you spent in this game and move on is to lose your dependancy on the game.

No LS's, No Dyanmis, No HNM's, No Sky, No Sea, No nothing.
Get rid of all of that and your left with just your friends and they are something that you don't need this game to keep in touch with because of email, aim, msn, etc. You can then look back and kinda see how skewed the FFXI system is compared to the other MMO's out there.

Thats what it took for me to quit FFXI at least
I'm sure the same applies to all games eventually after a time, but FFXI has come a bit faster since there is no real state of progression. WoW offeres me a chance to always be moving forward because I know there will always be something better. And its a lot more fast paced than ffxi.

Just my two cents that probably makes no sense at all. :3 <-- What type of face is that suppoed to be anyways?

[rahskala]

To give the people who haven't played WoW's endgame an idea of what's going on: My mage is level 60. My guild clears BWL in one night and is starting to make progress in AQ40. With my current gear, my DPS is almost DOUBLE what it was when I was a fresh level 60, and I'm pretty modestly geared compared to some of the other mages in the guild, who are even higher. A level 75 BLM can throw ThunderIVs for 900+ damage. Imagine if, with the best gear in the game, they nuked for 2000+? That's what WoW is like -- everything scales up as you move through content.

And you're right, camping 2-year-old content day after day is bullshit. As you progress in FFXI's endgame, you don't REALLY become vastly more powerful. In reality, your progression is based more on the job makeup of your raid group than it is your gear. What progression there is is mainly about rounding out your character so they can perform better in certain situations, rather than make you more powerful outright.

My answer to your question is: I don't even do it anymore. I've just been entertaining myself by leveling the new jobs and exploring the new zones, rather than trying to throw myself at all the latest, hottest equipment. The new abilities and possibilities gained by progressing in FFXI's endgame, beyond a certain point, are pretty miniscule. As far as I'm concerned, if you've done it once, you're done... Re-doing it for a year to gear yourself out is a waste of time.

[Dezzimal]

I think the fact that you can't get anything done without a group for the most part is FFXI's biggest benefit and sometimes biggest downfall at the same time. In WoW you can be pretty much anonymous all the way to 60 and then you have to group up if you want to do engame instances. I think this cartoon pretty much sums up why I still play FFXI:

http://www.tcz.org/albums/Fires-Albu...cock.sized.jpg

Replace UT2004 with WoW. Its a lot less pronounced in FFXI because if you don't have a group of friends/linkshell, which more or less removes the anonymity by instating consequences for you being an asshole to someone else in game (you'll lose some friends), you won't get anything done.

If everyone who I knew/talked with ingame quit, I'd quit too. Right now I could not bring myself to say "Well it was nice playing with you guys for ~2-3 years, see ya." unless it was some sort of RL issue such as me moving to Guam or something.

[rahskala]

Side note: The original post was comparing the ENDGAMES, not the EXP grinds. Why do communities and guilds and soloing and groups have any place in this discussion at all? They all exist equally in both endgames.

[Kuai]

FFXI has no "endgame"

[Dezzimal]

FFXI has no "endgame"

Troll post #1 from the WoW crowd check. Didn't take too long.

[Koga]

FFXI has no "endgame"

Troll post #1 from the WoW crowd check. Didn't take too long.

Don't start you two <_<;
Were doing good somewhat..only on page3 >.>

[NynJa]

FFXI has no "endgame"

And WoW's big "endgame event" is completed in a mere 30 minutes.

gtfo nigga

[Ryany]

I fought roc, simurgh and king artho with a full alliance of 18 people. Those things were easy to kill. FFXI takes no skill at all. I went whm/war for claiming purposes and spammed warcry more to the party than I healed. Healing in FFXI is very easy.

(no flame…this is just an example of the other way around of when people start calling WoW easy because their highest instance was LBRS or UBRS and they have not set foot in any of the 40 man instances)

[Raineer]

I fought roc, simurgh and king artho with a full alliance of 18 people. Those things were easy to kill. FFXI takes no skill at all. I went whm/war for claiming purposes and spammed warcry more to the party than I healed. Healing in FFXI is very easy.

(no flame…this is just an example of the other way around of when people start calling WoW easy because their highest instance was LBRS or UBRS and they have not set foot in any of the 40 man instances)

Who the fuck uses the jeuno HNM's as a true example of endgame?

Bring your whm/war to Bahamut v2 and spam warcry, I'd like to see that.

[Daahan]

I fought roc, simurgh and king artho with a full alliance of 18 people. Those things were easy to kill. FFXI takes no skill at all. I went whm/war for claiming purposes and spammed warcry more to the party than I healed. Healing in FFXI is very easy.

(no flame…this is just an example of the other way around of when people start calling WoW easy because their highest instance was LBRS or UBRS and they have not set foot in any of the 40 man instances)

Using Roc, Simurgh, and KA to judge whether or not FFXI takes skill is a single sided way to look at it. Those NMs are not even "endgame" or important for that matter.

Try say healing in FFXI is easy when you pop a Jailer of Prudence or when you fight an Ouryu that decides to be an asshole by spamming his various nasty TP moves.

Everything in FFXI is circumstancial. You can't use a measure of skill and strategy in one instance to measure another.

[Sui]

Side note: The original post was comparing the ENDGAMES, not the EXP grinds. Why do communities and guilds and soloing and groups have any place in this discussion at all? They all exist equally in both endgames.

This is a pretty valid point - I don't think anyone can really argue that if you're looking for clear, obvious progression from one boss to the next and from one item to the next, FFXI's endgame fizzles out really quickly. That's not really the issue here, though. The issue is that endgame isn't the only reason to play the game. For some people, it's all they care about, and I imagine that that kind of person will be much happier in WoW. More power to them. But that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

I played WoW for a fair while (I still have an open subscription). Got a tauren druid to 60 on Spirestone with a couple alts, and a gnome mage to 49 on Gurubashi. My druid was in a guild that raided ZG and MC, and that was all well and good, but I didn't really care about going. The carrot-on-a-stick of Hakkari Loa Cloaks and Cenarion gear was nice, but the people in my guild were kind of boring. (This was true in my Mage's guild, too, but we didn't raid.)

I still play FFXI; recently got into a shell that does bigger endgame stuff, though my attendance is less than stellar. Instead, I much prefer to fuck around with my old friends, trying to trio Assaults, getting lost in Arrapago, leveling lower jobs in weird places, duoing phuabos in Sea - stuff like that. It might just be that I've played FFXI more (lots more >_>), but I like FFXI's community a lot more.

I also much prefer FFXI's style, both graphically and story-wise. Those are clearly matters of opinion, though, so I won't bother to write out a long-winded paragraph on them.

So yeah, I guess that arguing you play FFXI for non-endgame reasons on an endgame board is kind of weird. But it's true, so why not say so?

[Elcura]

Of course it takes no skill to kill those NMs with 18 people.

Try something harder.

[Raineer]

Why do the WoW people care what FFXI 'endgame' is like again? And why do FF people care about WoW?

go back to your own forums and stfu, do you see any FF people posting there? I wouldn't know, haven't been there

[jiang]

(no flame…this is just an example of the other way around of when people start calling WoW easy because their highest instance was LBRS or UBRS and they have not set foot in any of the 40 man instances)

Doesn't blizzard support the usage of things like cure bots that go as far as cancelling a cure if someone already cured them? from what i've heard (i've played wow but getting to lv 40 with priest is hardly any experience) there are a bunch of tools people can download to make the game 'play for you'.

not to say that ffxi doesn't do the same, but to be honest, those kinds of things for ffxi aren't as readily accessible and not endorsed by the company. also the sheer amount of people that play WoW is an advantage in terms of third party programs that are made for it.

and your example of killing king arthro with 18 people is silly.. those NMs came out before the lvl cap was extended so of course those NMs are extremely easy.. try killing them with a party of lv 60s. go kill fafnir or something.