Cerberus mantle, how much does it sell for

[othellojr]

Meh I think all Asura ls's just give items away, I know my ls as well as other of the current ls's that camp have given items such as Assjamers (fuck spelling that shit), Hrotti (sp?), and BB items away to people from other ls's that do not have them (usually to newer people to the hnm scene, or to someone who just does not have the ls that can camp/claim/kill hnms) after all their members have the items they want/need. The only ls I remember that sold items from kings was our old jpfagbotting ls named Armada who went emo and lost many members after the patch that broke many bots; and from their example (as bad as it was) ls's now do not camp to sell items, they camp for what they need/want and give what they don't need away; now that is respect to others.

Of course things that are sellable in AH, such as Hides/mantles are sold, so it does not apply to them, obviously I am referring to Rare/ex gear that would normally be tossed away/thrashed.

As to the OP:

Currently hides were being sold around 15mil, so the NQ mantles have sold around 20 mil, and I know of one crafter who sold an HQ for 80mil (maybe more). So basically this is an item where HNMls's set price, if any crafter wants to try, they can go for it, and they in turn can set their price, since someone will always buy shit on Asura that is overpriced.

Hey OJ. Can you leave me another Byakko Haidate? The one I got from machina seemed to have been desynthed into lots of broken crystals. <3 Sols

LOL, we seem to be short on them things, hell most of the old mages leveled jobs that can use haidate(glad I got mine before the rush of mages leveling melee ), and then add new people that "need" them and we are cursing Napo and DH along with their GS buddies since just getting to fight Byakko is fucking frustrating(Uli on Asura is DA v2 for those not over here) , and then..there is that whole droprate issue

So...I will add my obligatory cursing of Asura's scums:

Fuck you Napolean and DH!

[solsovly]

It always amuses me to see the GS spamming shouts in Jeuno for selling Abjuration and God Drops. But hey, they are camping them for the droppable synths, why not sell them since they dont need them mirite?

[Lockecole]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

[solsovly]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

Well back when I was active in a HNM that gave away items we didnt need, we gave away items to those that deserved them but happened to be in the wrong LS/no LS. People we gave them to usually were at all the windows anyways, cause lets face it the hardest part of kings is actually staying there for all the windows and winning claim. You don't OWE the server anything, but to say they that everyone else didn't put any time in effort into it is a bunch of BS.

edit: I have crafted for free including HQ's , not everytime but on some occassions.

[Krandor]

Meh I think all Asura ls's just give items away, I know my ls as well as other of the current ls's that camp have given items such as Assjamers (fuck spelling that shit), Hrotti (sp?), and BB items away to people from other ls's that do not have them (usually to newer people to the hnm scene, or to someone who just does not have the ls that can camp/claim/kill hnms) after all their members have the items they want/need. The only ls I remember that sold items from kings was our old jpfagbotting ls named Armada who went emo and lost many members after the patch that broke many bots; and from their example (as bad as it was) ls's now do not camp to sell items, they camp for what they need/want and give what they don't need away; now that is respect to others.

Of course things that are sellable in AH, such as Hides/mantles are sold, so it does not apply to them, obviously I am referring to Rare/ex gear that would normally be tossed away/thrashed.

As to the OP:

Currently hides were being sold around 15mil, so the NQ mantles have sold around 20 mil, and I know of one crafter who sold an HQ for 80mil (maybe more). So basically this is an item where HNMls's set price, if any crafter wants to try, they can go for it, and they in turn can set their price, since someone will always buy shit on Asura that is overpriced.

Hey OJ. Can you leave me another Byakko Haidate? The one I got from machina seemed to have been desynthed into lots of broken crystals. <3 Sols

LOL, we seem to be short on them things, hell most of the old mages leveled jobs that can use haidate(glad I got mine before the rush of mages leveling melee ), and then add new people that "need" them and we are cursing Napo and DH along with their GS buddies since just getting to fight Byakko is fucking frustrating(Uli on Asura is DA v2 for those not over here) , and then..there is that whole droprate issue

So...I will add my obligatory cursing of Asura's scums:

Fuck you Napolean and DH!

Sky has actually been ok the last few weeks. Downin and a few other Gilsellers literally live in Ulli's room 24/7 (just saw the gilseller DRK Baby ding merit #9 on friday), but aside from the standard Ulli BS the rest of sky has been ok. Few days ago we went up to sky with 8 people and an hour later walked away with SC and Zip drops.

[layoneil]

If you're selling the ONE THING he drops, then obviously you shouldnt be there.

the extention to that is

If you're selling EVERYTHING he drops, then obviously you shouldnt be there either.

this doesn't apply to mobs where EVERYTHING is sellable in the first place, this only applies to mobs that have some kind of Ex item people wants.

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

not everyone deserves respect so that's not a valid point.

[aurik]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

So if an abj dropped that you didn't need and someone from another HNMLS that was also camping the monster was there, you would give it to them without charge? After all, they are putting in the time and the effort to be there, but are denied the opportunity because your team wanted first chance at other loots in the drop table, and your team got lucky with the claim.

[Krandor]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

Asura is for the most part a relatively friendly server, so LSs don't have a problem sharing some "crap" items with one another. Former members of my LS have recieved Assjammers, Hrottis, or even a Neptunal Head from other NA LSs.

I can't think of a single instance on Asura where a NA LS has actually sold a BB Item (if I remember correctly Aurik got an undeeded Behemoth Tongue from my LS to complete his BB )

[XxSlusherxx]

Cerbrus is a money NM in my mind...

Subduer > Algol go do double Dragonion.

[Lockecole]

If you're selling the ONE THING he drops, then obviously you shouldnt be there.

the extention to that is

If you're selling EVERYTHING he drops, then obviously you shouldnt be there either.

this doesn't apply to mobs where EVERYTHING is sellable in the first place, this only applies to mobs that have some kind of Ex item people wants.

Well, our LS is very keen on Enmity, and Cerberus Mantle +1 is one of the best back slots in the game, for SOOO many purposes. I will admit it is the major reason we camp him, and its definately a plus that we can sell off what we dont need of anymore. We still have people who can benefit from Algols, just its come to the point some arent on when we get claim. Everyone we've sold to was more then willing enough to pay, to the extent where they went out of their way to contact us (really rich oldschool JPs most of the time). Cerberus normally sits up except for 2 HNMLSes that kill him everyonce in awhile...of which only 1 I believe currently keeps track of his pop time with a mule. Besides that he just sits up, wipes a couple LSes here and there...and thats it.

[aurik]

needs more drama, work is boring today.

Welcome to page 3.

[Wizerd]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

The difference is that anyone can craft, but not everyone can claim a king or even an NQ, regardless of whether they put the time in and make the LS.

If SE actually fixed the kings, then there would be no problems. How often do you see people selling abjurations and drops from sky? Sure, sometimes, but it happens a hell of a lot less than the 3 kings. (Forgive me, gilseller-filled servers who have to deal with sky GS all the time)

But with all the bots out now, I can't bring my LS to camp an HNM and have a fair chance at claiming, unless I have a few copies of the bots myself. 1/50 chance to claim isn't worth my while and it's certainly worth the while of the other 11-17 campers. Whereas LS's who claim illegit only have to deal with a 1/3ish chance, depending on how many other LS's are there with the bot.

And in line with what sol said, I was at just about every Fafnir and Nidhogg pop until the LS gave me my Wyrm Beard, refusing to pay each and every time it dropped until I got it. I agree, if someone learns you claimed and heads up there expecting a free item, I wouldn't give it to them either. In that case, I'd give it to someone in another LS or toss it.

Finally, you're right, I don't craft HQs for free. I craft NQs for better than free though, I usually provide all the minor materials for most large synths I do. That's better than some people I know, who are charging for NQ synths (who the fuck does that?).

[Refreshing the other tab is great]

Sendoh: I agree, not everyone deserves respect, but the point is still valid. The leader should be able to judge whether the person they're giving the item away to deserves the respect or not. If I were in a seller position, I wouldn't even sell to someone who was a shitbag.

[Lockecole]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

So if an abj dropped that you didn't need and someone from another HNMLS that was also camping the monster was there, you would give it to them without charge? After all, they are putting in the time and the effort to be there, but are denied the opportunity because your team wanted first chance at other loots in the drop table, and your team got lucky with the claim.

You're speaking hypothetically here Aurik...and seriously I dont know why. We're not maxxed out on Fafnir drops even, and will NEVER..EVER be maxxed out on King drops till the end of time, so I guess your point is moot. Assjammer is NOT something I feel that a legit LS who can claim and kill consistantly would need to ask an LS for, since they drop so often. Ontop of that we've given them out, so again you're speaking hypothetically.

In the end I stated its up to the LS who claimed to do with as they please. I dont know why others feel they have the right to the drops of someone else. I've never wished/asked for an item I didnt have from an opposing LS, especially since I'd rather get it from my own....and neither has anyone from our LS. (short of a couple joke efforts to OO. ) There's much worse instances all over the place where people are having shit ROT left and right. I guess Aurik and all DynamisLSes should hand out hourglasses to people for AF2 that rots on mannequins from Dynamis? Not trying to pick on him, because I dont believe this should be done, just trying to show you how this can be compared to so many other situations in the game, and in the end, its the choice of the LS.

[draxyl]

Wow, Cerb is pretty hotly contended on Asura...usually killed within 15-30 mins of being up. 1 JP LS (hitosiforce), and a few NA LS (tribe, precedence, kaiser?, eminence) camp him. I don't think any of us sell the algols, each of the LS still have drk that want it.

[Wizerd]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

So if an abj dropped that you didn't need and someone from another HNMLS that was also camping the monster was there, you would give it to them without charge? After all, they are putting in the time and the effort to be there, but are denied the opportunity because your team wanted first chance at other loots in the drop table, and your team got lucky with the claim.

You're speaking hypothetically here Aurik...and seriously I dont know why. We're not maxxed out on Fafnir drops even, and will NEVER..EVER be maxxed out on King drops till the end of time, so I guess your point is moot. Assjammer is NOT something I feel that a legit LS who can claim and kill consistantly would need to ask an LS for, since they drop so often. Ontop of that we've given them out, so again you're speaking hypothetically.

In the end I stated its up to the LS who claimed to do with as they please. I dont know why others feel they have the right to the drops of someone else. I've never wished/asked for an item I didnt have from an opposing LS, especially since I'd rather get it from my own....and neither has anyone from our LS. (short of a couple joke efforts to OO. ) There's much worse instances all over the place where people are having shit ROT left and right. I guess Aurik and all DynamisLSes should hand out hourglasses to people for AF2 that rots on mannequins from Dynamis? Not trying to pick on him, because I dont believe this should be done, just trying to show you how this can be compared to so many other situations in the game, and in the end, its the choice of the LS.

Personally, I'd love to earn the items myself. But again, sometimes that's just not possible, and won't be until SE smartens up.

I can see them putting items like Defending Ring and Ridill as (respectively) extremely rare and quite rare assault drops for difficult rank 10 Assault missions in several months, maybe. But then again, maybe not. We'll see. (By assault drops I mean appraisal... I've done like 40 of those at least and have gotten 1 decent item... and it was a rare/ex lv70 bow, which no one could use)

[Cleveland]

Honestly.....

We kill it on Unicorn for the sole purpose of keeping Algol out of a DRK's hands. A sword so emo that it contains 2 blades so one can slit both wrists at the same time is not to be toyed with.

[Veli]

I'm suprised that mantle sells for over 5m. The people I see walking around with it would be better off with foragers mantle. Theres like a better mantle for every job. I would sell NQ for 5m HQ for 20-25m.

[Wizerd]

I'm suprised that mantle sells for over 5m. The people I see walking around with it would be better off with foragers mantle. Theres like a better mantle for every job. I would sell NQ for 5m HQ for 20-25m.

Are ya stupid? You're saying Forager's Mantle is better than Cerberus Mantle... @_@; (even the NQ)

[aurik]

The idea of selling rare/ex items is fucking stupid anyway. You think you're showing respect to the community? Try giving them away, then maybe they'll actually like you instead of forcing themselves to buy from people they hate.

An old LS a while ago sold black belt items (or so some people said...I think they mostly just tossed them though). With enough pestering the leader, he gave in and let me lot for free.

Yay for prick leaders?

So items should be given to people because others dont wanna put the time and effort into camping/organizing an LS/killing HNMs? I'm sure you craft everything for free when others ask you, and give HQs away for others, even though they've invested no time in your craft, and instead just wanted to mooch off of your hardwork.

It is a SERVICE to those who do not spend the time to camp an HNM, if an LS lets them buy or have a specific item. Camping the kings is the most time consuming and non-productive activity probably in this whole game. To say LSes who camp kings OWE the rest of the server is rediculous. It is entirely up to the LS to do with the drops they dont need at the moment, AS LONG as they're there for a legit reason. (Not camping for only D.Rings and tossing everything else, or camping specifically to keep others from getting things.) 99% of people who buy things, or ask to buy are those who have never put anytime into camping the kings or have any chance to claim or kill. Nothing is owed to them by anyone else who puts the time in, just like you owe nothing to anyone else for the effort you put into what you do (crafting), and in no way are expected to share your profits with others.

So if an abj dropped that you didn't need and someone from another HNMLS that was also camping the monster was there, you would give it to them without charge? After all, they are putting in the time and the effort to be there, but are denied the opportunity because your team wanted first chance at other loots in the drop table, and your team got lucky with the claim.

You're speaking hypothetically here Aurik...and seriously I dont know why. We're not maxxed out on Fafnir drops even, and will NEVER..EVER be maxxed out on King drops till the end of time, so I guess your point is moot. Assjammer is NOT something I feel that a legit LS who can claim and kill consistantly would need to ask an LS for, since they drop so often. Ontop of that we've given them out, so again you're speaking hypothetically.

In the end I stated its up to the LS who claimed to do with as they please. I dont know why others feel they have the right to the drops of someone else. I've never wished/asked for an item I didnt have from an opposing LS, especially since I'd rather get it from my own....and neither has anyone from our LS. (short of a couple joke efforts to OO. ) There's much worse instances all over the place where people are having shit ROT left and right. I guess Aurik and all DynamisLSes should hand out hourglasses to people for AF2 that rots on mannequins from Dynamis? Not trying to pick on him, because I dont believe this should be done, just trying to show you how this can be compared to so many other situations in the game, and in the end, its the choice of the LS.

I'm going to address the points your post in reverse order.

Actually, my dynamis group *does* invite guests to attend and lot on AF2 that we intend to rot if it drops. We've given away several pieces, which is a much more difficult organizational challenge compared to inviting someone in Aery who was there for ToD anyway. We've also had guests enter dynamis post-boss to snag the keyitem for clearing the zone. It's something nice that we can do that costs us nothing, so why wouldn't we?

You say "its up to the LS who claimed to do with as they please..." but your council member on your site goes on a large rant how your LS has the moral high-ground after ganking KB (off their doomed PLD mid-wipe, but a gank nevertheless) because they'd rather rot items rather than selling them to NAs. They're there for a legit EX drop, therefore isn't it up to that racist JPLS to do with the drops as they please?

As for Aegishjalmr, Hrotti, etc, and even e.hands, I've personally seen all these been given away to members of competing HNMLS for no charge. So to me it isn't a hypothetical question. It's a question that I've seen my old HNMLS answer much to my satisfaction, and it's a question that your LS will have to answer at some point too. Angelsin's post seems to indicate that your policy is already decided; your shell will sell the abj if they are not needed internally. Despite the fact they are indeed "common drops" and given a few weeks the competitor stands a decent chance of getting it from his own claim, but regardless they are still needed by other people who do put in just as much time and effort as members on your team. Why do you charge them because they had bad luck and didn't get claim?

[Lockecole]

I'm suprised that mantle sells for over 5m. The people I see walking around with it would be better off with foragers mantle. Theres like a better mantle for every job. I would sell NQ for 5m HQ for 20-25m.

Are ya stupid? You're saying Forager's Mantle is better than Cerberus Mantle... @_@; (even the NQ)

Well technically for pure DD purposes, Forager's(STR+3 ATT+15) is better then NQ (STR+3 ATT+12 ENM+3) hands down, since a pure DD doesnt want enmity (most of the time) and its 3 less attack. HQ on the other hand (STR+4 ATT+15 ENM+4) is amazing for just about any job, unless you're a DD that is in danger of pulling hate on an HNM. (Cerberus, Fafnir)

And yeah...not that we'll ever sell one, but we've had offers of 80M+ for HQs, so no way would an HQ go for 25M.