Let's rise up! ...again

[Gulkeeva]

RMT on my server are gearing up to do wyrms and other HNM...
see an alliance of SMN, a PT of thf... and an alliance of BLm lvling, they are currently like Lv 60's

[Lordwafik]

Yeah, they use asura to test their crap out


Gilsellers got tiamat to 20% on asura, they did fine. Players intervened and cfh'd etc and made them lose.

I have no doubt they can kill Tiamat anymore.

[AriaEminence]

This reminds me of when EQ2 launched, to battle RMT they made a program that would ban people sending outrageous amounts of currency through the mail system. What actually ended up happening was TONS of legitimate players who had only done crafting since launch were being banned left and right.

When the hell did that happen? I played from launch til 4-5 months after and never heard about that.

It might have been launch or it might have been when I went back to the game 1 year later, I honestly can't remember. I just remember a TON of people going crazy over it. It was some program that Sony decided to implement that banned the players too, which made it worse.

[geno]

Does anyone know how they chose the players they included in the largescale 'RMT ban'?

[Silmarwen]

Does anyone know how they chose the players they included in the largescale 'RMT ban'?

/random?

In all seriousness, how hard would it be for SE to place an IGE order and slap the dude that delivers the gil. Unless of course, it's considered "entrapment" ...oy! Not only would you now have the account that delivered it, you can trace it back to who is paying for that account, there's a group right off >.<;

[Epical]

After reading these (intelligent =OOOO) replies, I think it's pretty apparent that in order to do something like this, SE is going to need to get their hands dirty. Scan all cities for characters level 1-10 with over, say... 100mil and KEEP A TRACK ON THEIR EVENTS.

So lets say we find Cutesquirrels in Port Sandy with 200mil to it's name. Suddenly the character logs on, sends a tell to Xcloudsephirothyxxx about the trade being ready and to meet them in said zone. The characters meet up and Cutesquirrels gives him 10mil through trade, immediately also logging off afterwards. Imagine if SE adopted a zero-tolerance policy that was shaped around the events of an RMT-transaction? Oh man. The legit players' line of defense would be something like "if I were muling, I'd have to log off my main character first." Also, I'm not sure how many people would have gil-only mules. =\

Keep sending those mails to them. The 1500 views this has could make us a lot of progress.

[Dreizehn]

sadly even i would admit that a certain amount of RMT is necessary to keep this game alive. the sheer volume that they can farm keeps prices low, and as a crafter the gilbuyers that constantly buy my crafted goods keep my gil supply at comfortable level.

that being said, there's just no reason for SE to let them run rampant in sky. to this day, sky remains the best place to get some of the best gear in the game. i've never been one to mind that SE hasn't kept making new and better gear to make older gear obsolete, but for the love of god, if you don't make new and better stuff you can't let your older content go to shit.

there are plenty of reasons why they don't ban RMT outright. legal issues. the chance they may ban legitamate players. it costs them money to lose money (accounts).

what's the solution?

if you find it objectionable that SE does nothing to fix a broken game, cancel your content ID...i did this week and i feel pretty good about it. until SE fixes their broken content i'm not reactivating.

[Darus Grey]

So lets say we find Cutesquirrels in Port Sandy with 200mil to it's name. Suddenly the character logs on, sends a tell to Xcloudsephirothyxxx about the trade being ready and to meet them in said zone. The characters meet up and Cutesquirrels gives him 10mil through trade, immediately also logging off afterwards. Imagine if SE adopted a zero-tolerance policy that was shaped around the events of an RMT-transaction? Oh man. The legit players' line of defense would be something like "if I were muling, I'd have to log off my main character first." Also, I'm not sure how many people would have gil-only mules. =\

Problem with that is just as you pointed out, there are enough *legit* players who do this that you can't peg it automatically as RMT behavior.

I have 100+m on a mule, so do several people I know.
(Helps keep those incredibly expensive impulse buys to a minimum).

[aurik]

First, having large amounts of gil on mules is incredibly inconvenient now with the d.box nerf. Even dual boxing.

Second, I don't see there being anything wrong with "entrapment". SE isn't the US government; they have much greater power to tackle this problem since they aren't bound by the bill of rights.

Third, IGE is offering a service to the public via a website. Thus it's not entrapment if SE buys and bans, since SE is not planting an idea in IGE's head that IGE wouldn't have had otherwise, which is really the standard that needs to be met to show entrapment. SE is merely showing that IGE is involved in "activities contrary to the ToS" rather than fraud by attempting to purchase.

[Epical]

So lets say we find Cutesquirrels in Port Sandy with 200mil to it's name. Suddenly the character logs on, sends a tell to Xcloudsephirothyxxx about the trade being ready and to meet them in said zone. The characters meet up and Cutesquirrels gives him 10mil through trade, immediately also logging off afterwards. Imagine if SE adopted a zero-tolerance policy that was shaped around the events of an RMT-transaction? Oh man. The legit players' line of defense would be something like "if I were muling, I'd have to log off my main character first." Also, I'm not sure how many people would have gil-only mules. =\

Problem with that is just as you pointed out, there are enough *legit* players who do this that you can't peg it automatically as RMT behavior.

I have 100+m on a mule, so do several people I know.
(Helps keep those incredibly expensive impulse buys to a minimum).

Okay, but does your mule send tells to random players telling them to meet you in zones so you can trade them certain amounts of gil? I hope not. =( I would also assume your mule has other items on it too... you couldn't possibly let all that storage space go to waste. =(

[Darus Grey]

Okay, but does your mule send tells to random players telling them to meet you in zones so you can trade them certain amounts of gil? I hope not. =( I would also assume your mule has other items on it too... you couldn't possibly let all that storage space go to waste. =(

Well in fairness no, I ussually don't send tells to myself on one pc well handing gil to my main account on another.

Or maybe I do, I'm just weird like that!

[Epical]

Exactly. =P Which is why RMT would be so easy to catch you morons @ SE.

Woo, gonna go take a walk now.

[AriaEminence]

So lets say we find Cutesquirrels in Port Sandy with 200mil to it's name. Suddenly the character logs on, sends a tell to Xcloudsephirothyxxx about the trade being ready and to meet them in said zone. The characters meet up and Cutesquirrels gives him 10mil through trade, immediately also logging off afterwards. Imagine if SE adopted a zero-tolerance policy that was shaped around the events of an RMT-transaction? Oh man. The legit players' line of defense would be something like "if I were muling, I'd have to log off my main character first." Also, I'm not sure how many people would have gil-only mules. =\

Problem with that is just as you pointed out, there are enough *legit* players who do this that you can't peg it automatically as RMT behavior.

I have 100+m on a mule, so do several people I know.
(Helps keep those incredibly expensive impulse buys to a minimum).

Okay, but does your mule send tells to random players telling them to meet you in zones so you can trade them certain amounts of gil? I hope not. =( I would also assume your mule has other items on it too... you couldn't possibly let all that storage space go to waste. =(

But to play the devil's advocate, what would happen if say you borrowed an item/money from a good friend that valued over the 10m line. Then you meet said character (possibly a crafting mule) in San'Doria so that you can give him money for the item, or he can give you money in the same situation. Would it be fair that you would be possibly flagged for RMT, or be banned for this? This is the only problem that I see them facing through all of this. They really need to be certain beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Imaulle]

i'm thinking about going to IGE or one of the other sites and buying a small amount of gil, and calling a GM right before i do it, so they can get the person giving me the gil, and then look at their logs and see who they have been in contact with, and maybe stake them out for a few days before banning them to see whoelse they talk to etc, think GM would go along with that lol?? i dont mind paying a few bucks to get some rmt banned... what you guys think abou that ??

[NynJa]

i'm thinking about going to IGE or one of the other sites and buying a small amount of gil, and calling a GM right before i do it, so they can get the person giving me the gil, and then look at their logs and see who they have been in contact with, and maybe stake them out for a few days before banning them to see whoelse they talk to etc, think GM would go along with that lol?? i dont mind paying a few bucks to get some rmt banned... what you guys think abou that ??

GM will burn you for buying gil...

[Imaulle]

he can take it i dont care i'll say that before i buy it

[Ashen]

i'm thinking about going to IGE or one of the other sites and buying a small amount of gil, and calling a GM right before i do it, so they can get the person giving me the gil, and then look at their logs and see who they have been in contact with, and maybe stake them out for a few days before banning them to see whoelse they talk to etc, think GM would go along with that lol?? i dont mind paying a few bucks to get some rmt banned... what you guys think abou that ??

Prepare to see the following:

== Mordion Gol ==
You: WTF
NubGMThatHasNeverPlayedFF: After thorough investigation we have concluded that you have been purchasing gil through the use of real money. This is a ban-able offense against the ToS and you're account will be cancelled immediatley. Have a nice day.

[AriaEminence]

i'm thinking about going to IGE or one of the other sites and buying a small amount of gil, and calling a GM right before i do it, so they can get the person giving me the gil, and then look at their logs and see who they have been in contact with, and maybe stake them out for a few days before banning them to see whoelse they talk to etc, think GM would go along with that lol?? i dont mind paying a few bucks to get some rmt banned... what you guys think abou that ??

Dude that's the same as these rogue idiots that buy crack and then tell the officer "This is where I bought this crack!". You know what happens? They get arrested for possession of crack.

[Epical]

But to play the devil's advocate, what would happen if say you borrowed an item/money from a good friend that valued over the 10m line. Then you meet said character (possibly a crafting mule) in San'Doria so that you can give him money for the item, or he can give you money in the same situation. Would it be fair that you would be possibly flagged for RMT, or be banned for this? This is the only problem that I see them facing through all of this. They really need to be certain beyond a reasonable doubt.

You could name a million "what if" situations that will have some sort of bypassing effect on whatever SE decides to put in place. Granted the legit scenario you just outlined would be unfortunate, however I'm sure there would be extra talking between the two people such as "Hey, I'll return this money to you once I get enough." or "Thanks again for all this, I'll PL your main" (lol), but you get what I'm saying. The RMT -> customer communication is like, three tells at best. =\

If that fails, the mule's owner could redirect them to their main account, and the fact that they aren't sitting in Oztroja/Kuftal/whreever all day. There will be many, many sure-fire bannings before something like this comes along. =P

[MisterBob]

My favorite part about the RMT bannings is that they also banned a bunch of random innocent HK players :(