Anyone still care about AV?

[Demosthenes11]

[quote=Koyangi]

Because haste lowers Chi Blast, oh wait again...

Will you shut the fuck up and read? "Oh wait" is not funny, you're not clever, you're just an idiot.

Read the second half of the post....but I guess you have no wity comeback for that. You're wrong just admit it, the way the game works, both jobs get equal use out of it when factor in both HNM and EXP/Limbus/Dynamis/ect...

A MNK/NIN with Haidate >>>>>>> a BRD using it any situation especially naming the bold things, which they don't fukin Chi Blast in.

Thanks thats my point, on HNM which is what they have been talking about, MNK in Haidate is not going to do any good. I would much rather see a MNK get Haidate before BRD but you have to face the facts that MNK is only good for Chi Blast on HNM because of the way mobs gain TP.

And I already made the point as well that not every item you get in endgame(with your HNMLS) is for your job to do better in "endgame," 1 Example is Black Belt. There's plenty of gear like lolGaiters from Tiamat that doesnt help any of the jobs using it to do their job the way they're supposed to in "endgame," yet people still camp Tiamat pretty hard.[/quote:ccd69]

which has nothing to do with this whole argument

[Ryko]

I'm all for giving items to people based on use but dont delude yourself into defending a pretty petty point when it's likely the most you even see out of your monks for LS events is chi blasting which gets absolutely 0 out of it.

<_< *cough*

... unless you have a 3 monk rotation or more for chi-blast, DoT from melee'ing will outdo chi blast damage everytime for the slot in the alliance. And loltpgain, people complain about the TP a monk gives when they let war/nin's go melee mobs with ridil...

I know when chi blasting is more beneficial to a scenario and when it isn't. As you mentioned, that leaves a grand total of maybe... 5-6 HNMs total that you'd see a monk meleeing on (4 gods, fafnir [and even that's debatable but I'll just stick to the concept that sometimes it wants to be a whore and sometimes it wants to cooperate to give you a bone), and aspid), definitely the lesser of the 2 situations and, as I said, when's the last time you saw a monk meleeing on any of those mobs? When's the last time your LS told a monk "Hey throw on some knucks and get to work buddy"?

[Koyangi]

[quote=Demosthenes11][quote=Koyangi]

Because haste lowers Chi Blast, oh wait again...

Will you shut the fuck up and read? "Oh wait" is not funny, you're not clever, you're just an idiot.

Read the second half of the post....but I guess you have no wity comeback for that. You're wrong just admit it, the way the game works, both jobs get equal use out of it when factor in both HNM and EXP/Limbus/Dynamis/ect...

A MNK/NIN with Haidate >>>>>>> a BRD using it any situation especially naming the bold things, which they don't fukin Chi Blast in.

Thanks thats my point, on HNM which is what they have been talking about, MNK in Haidate is not going to do any good. I would much rather see a MNK get Haidate before BRD but you have to face the facts that MNK is only good for Chi Blast on HNM because of the way mobs gain TP.

And I already made the point as well that not every item you get in endgame(with your HNMLS) is for your job to do better in "endgame," 1 Example is Black Belt. There's plenty of gear like lolGaiters from Tiamat that doesnt help any of the jobs using it to do their job the way they're supposed to in "endgame," yet people still camp Tiamat pretty hard.[/quote:821a7]

which has nothing to do with this whole argument[/quote:821a7]
It totally does, he's debating on brd vs mnk because of who will benefit with it IN THE HNMLS DURING HNMLS ACTIVITIES, so he's singling out that piece of gear to be brd > mnk, when theres lots of gear hnmls camp/pop for that are useful moreso out of the endgame genre than in it(or just not that useful at all).

[Demosthenes11]

It totally does, he's debating on brd vs mnk because of who will benefit with it IN THE HNMLS DURING HNMLS ACTIVITIES, so he's singling out that piece of gear to be brd > mnk, when theres lots of gear hnmls camp/pop for that are useful moreso out of the endgame genre than in it(or just not that useful at all).

one itty bitty difference: Gaiters arn't rare/ex

[Ryko]

Edit: fuck, hit quote instead of edit.

[Ayn]

when's the last time you saw a monk meleeing on any of those mobs? When's the last time your LS told a monk "Hey throw on some knucks and get to work buddy"?

Hey I was told I could do that on Tiamat!

....

Oh wait, that was like 6-7 months ago.

[Nikko]

Great post

lol owned

[hipsofsteel]

mnk/drk onry ok?

[Raineer]

It totally does, he's debating on brd vs mnk because of who will benefit with it IN THE HNMLS DURING HNMLS ACTIVITIES, so he's singling out that piece of gear to be brd > mnk, when theres lots of gear hnmls camp/pop for that are useful moreso out of the endgame genre than in it(or just not that useful at all).

one itty bitty difference: Gaiters arn't rare/ex

bonus points to whoever posted earlier this week "the only purpose for gaiters is to have a mage leave your LS 12% faster"

[Denchi]

I wish my LS would have given me divine logs.... they gave all the whm's nobles tunics from the cloths dropped, and then I have to go blow 15mil on a shura togi during inflation after a bunch of logs dropped. Then I'm told that I'll never get a pair of Byakko's Haidate unless I start making 100% events, and ever then it's iffy. Sams, Wars, Rng, Whms, Rdm's could outlot me on Haidate, I would NEVER get a pair unless I started coming to every event.

Point: Endgame LS's are lame.

[DrObvious]

Time to shed more light on this epic argument. Mnks need haidate because the extra defense is useful when they pull hate at hnms while chi blasting. Flame on!

[Raineer]

I wish my LS would have given me divine logs.... they gave all the whm's nobles tunics from the cloths dropped, and then I have to go blow 15mil on a shura togi during inflation after a bunch of logs dropped. Then I'm told that I'll never get a pair of Byakko's Haidate unless I start making 100% events, and ever then it's iffy. Sams, Wars, Rng, Whms, Rdm's could outlot me on Haidate, I would NEVER get a pair unless I started coming to every event.

Point: Endgame LS's are lame.

Never understood that either. To me, HNMLS should be about ra/ex. I never understood buying shit for people when they could go earn it themselves. If you need money for your nobles, show up to enough damn events to get enough splits to pay for shit. If you get free nobles/manteels/whatever, you shouldn't get gil too, and you shouldn't get ra/ex over someone who didn't leech off the LS.

[Ryko]

We discount all craftable sellables but that means whm tunics and such arent free either <_<

[DrObvious]

Never understood that either. To me, HNMLS should be about ra/ex. I never understood buying shit for people when they could go earn it themselves. If you need money for your nobles, show up to enough damn events to get enough splits to pay for shit. If you get free nobles/manteels/whatever, you shouldn't get gil too, and you shouldn't get ra/ex over someone who didn't leech off the LS.

Glad to see I'm not the only person who thought this way. Whms getting free nobles tunics and the same share of all gil splits always seemed like grossly unfair double dipping to me.

[Shinryuu]

Some LSs keep crafting the Cloths to eventually replace every Noble's with Aristocrat's.

Do melees get Haubergeon+1s off the also a sky drop D.Ingot? lolno

[Ryko]

wtf dont steal the hacheyman shit >B|

And aristo's actually serve a purpose, hauby +1 doesnt make you 2% more effective in any sense compared to an NQ.

[Lockecole]

We're not talking about ONE situation, about ONE MNK's DoT....we're talking about a principle, a principle which if you don't set, will show in how your LS ends up succeeding in fighting things. If you think that skill is the only reason that seperates 9 people killing something that 40 people wipe to, then you're wrong. Gear isn't as unimportant as people make it out to be.

If you're really going to argue for this principle, you can't half-ass it and advocate NINs getting Ninurta's sashes. You have to argue for nobody to be given Ninurta's sashes from the linkshell, because the linkshell is selling them in favor of gear that gives better performance for the cost.

Except we kill AV to get gear for our jobs that benefit from them. We kill Tiamat for Gaiters, JoL for Earrings, and would like to kill AV for his gear. We don't kill JoL to give people gear that they can't use. Really big difference, I dont expect you to see it though.

I cannot begin to imagine how incredibly well geared your shell would have to be for a Ninurta's sash to be worth keeping. A miniscule reduction in spell interruption on a single NIN is not worth the hundreds of millions of gil the Sash would fetch from a perfectionist with too much cash on hand. How many Speed belts could you buy in exchange for a single sash - how much of a relic could you fund? Depending how expensive your currency is, and how much gil your server's elite have to waste, you could have enough for a full upgrade with extra to spare.

So spare us the self-righteous attitude that you would actually be serving the greater good by giving this ovehyped toy to any job. I know you all need an excuse to bitch about it, but its pretty sad that anyone would care so much about in in game item outside of their own shell, let alone their server.

Alot of our members have very good gear, and alot of it if upgraded would be JUST as miniscule as a Ninurta's without the ability to show off an AV drop. Ontop of that fact, giving another LS an item which you worked to get, makes no sense. There is another factor here, one which isnt factored in when you distribute gear within your own LS.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with an item's worth in comparison to other items. You'd have to be insane as an LS to sell ANY item from AV, regardless of its use. My point was that, if you WONT sell an item, at least put better use to it, then to have it given to someone who doesnt benefit from it at all. Yes items are just trophies, but as long as you keep the item within your LS, why not put it to use? The SAM/Ninurta's isnt that bad, people just pick on Map because he posts here alot. The WHM/Novio is just fucking rediculous. Justifying that is laughable.

Oh, and the endless arguments over which job truly deserves which item for which reasons is exactly what we were looking to avoid in the first place. Was it worth a SAM getting a fancy speed belt and a WHM getting a Novio thats lent out? Absolutely. Every thread like this is another affirmation of that fact

So you were looking to avoid putting actual effort into determining which person got an item? Sounds more like "hey I'll make a Sea LS, and I know we'll probably not get another one of these ever again, so I don't wanna pass the chance up for myself, regardless of how much it sits on my mannequin." I don't see how these threads affirm anything, except for the fact that there are DOZENS of people with valid arguments on why you guys are out of your minds.

[Kalyna]

My AV thread turned retarded. >.>

Stanislav, how did it go?

[Avinor]

I don't see how these threads affirm anything, except for the fact that there are DOZENS of people with valid arguments on why you guys are out of your minds.

These threads affirm that people can't agree on enough when it comes to which jobs can use what, and it leads to big arguements and makes for a less enjoyable time with the shell. Not only does that defeat the purpose of the damn game, it usually leads to less productive linkshells that end up getting less loot to pass around anyway.

Look, you and many others love to bitch about how we waste gear. I just pointed out the fact that if you really care about equipping your shell to the maximum extent, you'd sell these toys in exchange for more useful, cost effective toys. Like a relic maybe. In the spectrum of utility, the difference between a SAM with the Sash and a NIN with the Sash is actually pretty small. Especially when you compare it to the gulf between a NIN with a Sash and a NIN with a Speed belt + a Bard with a Gjallarhorn. Obviously the LS wants trophies but if you truly gave a shit about the whole LS you wouldn't satisfy any one person's epeen for that kind of opportunity. I mean seriously, we're not talking minor upgrades. The cash that stupid sash is worth will buy other items that really can make a difference. An LS that is as tight knit and purpose driven as you so want to be would be willing to make that kind of sacrifice.

But we're not a tight knit LS, we only meet 2 times a week. So the greater good doesn't really mean much. Feel free to make yourself feel better by proclaiming that to be a bad thing, that we're all just lootwhores looking to cash in on Sea drops. Honestly we don't really care. Because we've been having fun along the way. The items are icing, and we've had good fortune with them, but its not the only reason people keep coming back. Remember Sky before it was infested with gilsellers, or even just packed with a bunch of regular Sky LSs, and you could actually run around getting shit done without having to worry about other people? Well thats what Sea is, and its a nice change of pace from the wait-3-hours-to-get-outclaimed bullshit we all have to put up with the rest of the week. The drops may suck sometimes but at least we get to do something with our time. And overall the drops keep adding up.

Personally I would prefer a shell in which drops are distributed without points. But Titan is fragmented beyond belief in the endgame. There are more HNM shells than I can count and even more beefs between them. So we used a basic structure to reward contributions people have made. Its not too formal, so it avoids people griping about technicalities. And it ensures people don't bitch, since the rules are fair and constant. As for people getting items that they can't make much use out of - yeah, it sucks. But in the end it boils down to this: we're trusting our members not to be assholes and just sell off some of the rarest items on the server, so we should be able to trust them not to bid maliciously. For the overwhelming majority of items that has held, and for that one little Novio, it turned out not to be too big a deal. The BLM that was next in line, the one person in the entire game that has any right to make a complaint, was the bigger man and shrugged it off in order to keep the peace and keep the shell moving forward. You'd think people from other servers could do the same.

[Celeras]

My AV thread turned retarded. >.>

Stanislav, how did it go?

Say something strategic about your AV fight that you failed to mention before. Make something up if you have too. Maybe then these fucktards will pay more attention, and drop the BRD VS MNK IN FUCKING HAIDATE debate.