Anyone still care about AV?

[FFXIFlux]

There is also the fact that WHMs have very little to gain in rare/ex equipment from sky, etc.

Same with RDM, but no one would think to buy us a vermy with those d.cloths.

You can say crimson legs, and i'd raise you gaiters.

uh...3 zenith/3 crimson pieces in sky...I dont call that very little

If you're not elvaan or galka the only zenith peices worth anything are body and hands. Crimson hands (aspir) and legs are good but if you have af2 hat the other peices are just if you're def crazy. Compared to the jobs that wear osode, haidate AND crimson, it's fairly little.

[Vail]

both rdm and whm don't get alot in sky, but rdm defiantly gets alot more: but even outside of sky rdm has alot more room for items to get especially ra/ex stuff

not all but a good amount of rdm can credit thier LS or member's of thier LS for getting them a Joyeuse, Astral Aspis, Mistilienn

No LS has prefect rules, some LS give certain items to members at no cost while other LS pay to make any Abj item you need

BLM and I guess SMN also have it pretty bad in sky, hearing a melee complain about a whm getting to keep a noble's kinda urks me but I can understand cause the way it sounds his LS doesn't pay to have his abj made.

My Noble's isn't mine it belongs to my LS (not that I play whm all that much anymore) but I didn't have to pay to have my dalmatica made for my rdm (ouch that has some cost too it for sure)

best way I guess would to make people pay for everything to the LS, buying the shining cloth, paying your abj materials, but then again you got stuff like ra/ex items (mostly melee based in sky) which have no cost so even that is biased to melee over mages, alot of LS leaders understand that mages are more-or-less the work horse of a sky LS so keeping your mages up-to-date is important for morale and LS effectiveness so I can understand a LS taking bias in a mage's favor.

[AriaEminence]

Times were a lot different before. When Shining Cloths were 20m+, and very few LS's could kill Kirin, it was almost always assumed that the WHM's would get the cloths. This is before the massive inflations and gilsellers in sky, back when 1,000,000g actually had value.

Nowadays, it's almost required for 75WHM to have the Noble's Tunic on their own bankroll. Times have changed a lot.

You think whm have it bad? BLM's have it bad in the entire game as far as HNM gear goes.

[Arvin]

lol ninurtasash

[Ryko]

Eh we provide weskits to LS BLMs too at discount, saved a lot of dragon talons for that very purpose. It might not be equivalent to all my WAR's gotten but I try to do what I can ._.

[Tymon]

anything bought from my LS is bought at a discount based on the "grade" of your attendance

A = 40% ( 80-100% attendance )

B = 30% ( 60-79% attendance )

C = 20% ( 40-59% attendance )

D = 10% ( 20-39% attendance )

F = nadda ( 0-19% attendance )

[Strung]

Personally I would prefer a shell in which drops are distributed without points. But Titan is fragmented beyond belief in the endgame. There are more HNM shells than I can count and even more beefs between them. So we used a basic structure to reward contributions people have made. Its not too formal, so it avoids people griping about technicalities. And it ensures people don't bitch, since the rules are fair and constant. As for people getting items that they can't make much use out of - yeah, it sucks. But in the end it boils down to this: we're trusting our members not to be assholes and just sell off some of the rarest items on the server, so we should be able to trust them not to bid maliciously. For the overwhelming majority of items that has held, and for that one little Novio, it turned out not to be too big a deal. The BLM that was next in line, the one person in the entire game that has any right to make a complaint, was the bigger man and shrugged it off in order to keep the peace and keep the shell moving forward. You'd think people from other servers could do the same.

Quoted for truth. Many HNM LSs are unbiased with jobs (as long as you can use it) and items are based on contributions/attendence. If you want the item, show up more.

[Stilgar]

[quote:a2666]Personally I would prefer a shell in which drops are distributed without points. But Titan is fragmented beyond belief in the endgame. There are more HNM shells than I can count and even more beefs between them. So we used a basic structure to reward contributions people have made. Its not too formal, so it avoids people griping about technicalities. And it ensures people don't bitch, since the rules are fair and constant. As for people getting items that they can't make much use out of - yeah, it sucks. But in the end it boils down to this: we're trusting our members not to be assholes and just sell off some of the rarest items on the server, so we should be able to trust them not to bid maliciously. For the overwhelming majority of items that has held, and for that one little Novio, it turned out not to be too big a deal. The BLM that was next in line, the one person in the entire game that has any right to make a complaint, was the bigger man and shrugged it off in order to keep the peace and keep the shell moving forward. You'd think people from other servers could do the same.

Quoted for truth. Many HNM LSs are unbiased with jobs (as long as you can use it) and items are based on contributions/attendence. If you want the item, show up more.[/quote:a2666]

Yes. I won't be a part of any LS with any other system than what's described above. Everyone who helps the LS earn these items ought to be able to reap the rewards in proportion to how much effort they put in.

What is done with the item, or the opportunity cost of giving item A to job 1 over job 2, is irrelevant. SeaShell didn't need a Novio to kill JoL, nor a sash to kill AV. If these items are needed to kill w/e Ubar megaboss ToAU gives us (as if, lol), then more can be earned for other people. Or people with the items can lend them out, or *gasp* level up another job to use them with.

[Ryko]

Bullshit, you wouldnt give a BLM a ridill if you were in your right mind. Yes I know the sword is EX and the earring isnt but lending items like that out to begin with is almost as lacking in common sense as the previous scenario.

[Stilgar]

How many people, especially BLMs, do you know at endgame who haven't levelled a melee job? If they have a WAR, let them lot the fuckin ridill... why not? Hell, if they have a rng/thf/ or whatever the fuck else can use it, let them lot. Otherwise you're either trying to score the sword yourself, or you're way too invested in something that doesn't concern you and will have no effect whatsoever on anything relevant to your LS's kill capabilities.

***My position on this takes for a given that a BLM who doesn't have a job that can use the Ridill (or one they're currently levelling and close), wouldn't want to lot the sword.... (if your LS is full of people who'd take it just to have a Ridill, well then, you're LS is full of lootwhores)

[Ryko]

How many people, especially BLMs, do you know at endgame who haven't levelled a melee job?

Ridill-capable melee jobs? Plenty. I didn't say you wouldnt give a BLM with warrior capped out a ridill, I said you wouldnt plainly give a BLM a ridill regardless of attendance or what he plans on leveling up in the future, it's stupid. While you consider this a given, that's the exact same as some WHM lotting on an earring that serves them no fucking purpose, because *gasp* someone is a lootwhore. The coin has 2 sides, buddy.

(Yes, I accept the difference that the earring can be lent out. But as stated, that's rather stupid as is too, especially for a shell that admittedly isn't close knit)

[Strung]

He earned it, so no one has a problem with it (at least it seems only true for people on our server, Titan).

[Ryko]

That's nice, that wasn't the discussion us 2 were having though.

[Strung]

As I was saying before, as long as you can use it and you have more points then anyone else (attendence, contributions) you get it. If the person who's getting the item won't use it in your eyes, then the people who could use it didn't help the LS enough (or spent points else where and didn't feel the importance to save for it). It really comes down to dedication, so no one argues the results.

[Charla]

<AV> n**** stole my thread!

[Stilgar]

How many people, especially BLMs, do you know at endgame who haven't levelled a melee job?

Ridill-capable melee jobs? Plenty. I didn't say you wouldnt give a BLM with warrior capped out a ridill, I said you wouldnt plainly give a BLM a ridill regardless of attendance or what he plans on leveling up in the future, it's stupid. While you consider this a given, that's the exact same as some WHM lotting on an earring that serves them no fucking purpose, because *gasp* someone is a lootwhore. The coin has 2 sides, buddy.

(Yes, I accept the difference that the earring can be lent out. But as stated, that's rather stupid as is too, especially for a shell that admittedly isn't close knit)

Wasn't it stated that the whm in question was lvling up his blm? If he had no intention to do so, then sure, he was lootwhoring. What I'd do in that case is consider whether I still wanted him in my shell. But shit, if he wanted to take the earring and go npc it, that's his perogative; and even that intent wouldn't take away from the fact that he deserves to lot it as much as anyone else in the shell. Be a colossal waste, to be sure, but it's not like giving the thing to a BLM is suddenly going to make AV not 2hr anymore and be 100% beatable.

Novio has about as much relevance to the overall capabilities of an LS as a Ridill, or any other piece of gear in the game, save perhaps D.ring, Aegis, and maybe Gjallerhorn.

[Lockecole]

[quote:bdab9]Personally I would prefer a shell in which drops are distributed without points. But Titan is fragmented beyond belief in the endgame. There are more HNM shells than I can count and even more beefs between them. So we used a basic structure to reward contributions people have made. Its not too formal, so it avoids people griping about technicalities. And it ensures people don't bitch, since the rules are fair and constant. As for people getting items that they can't make much use out of - yeah, it sucks. But in the end it boils down to this: we're trusting our members not to be assholes and just sell off some of the rarest items on the server, so we should be able to trust them not to bid maliciously. For the overwhelming majority of items that has held, and for that one little Novio, it turned out not to be too big a deal. The BLM that was next in line, the one person in the entire game that has any right to make a complaint, was the bigger man and shrugged it off in order to keep the peace and keep the shell moving forward. You'd think people from other servers could do the same.

Quoted for truth. Many HNM LSs are unbiased with jobs (as long as you can use it) and items are based on contributions/attendence. If you want the item, show up more.

Yes. I won't be a part of any LS with any other system than what's described above. Everyone who helps the LS earn these items ought to be able to reap the rewards in proportion to how much effort they put in.

What is done with the item, or the opportunity cost of giving item A to job 1 over job 2, is irrelevant. SeaShell didn't need a Novio to kill JoL, nor a sash to kill AV. If these items are needed to kill w/e Ubar megaboss ToAU gives us (as if, lol), then more can be earned for other people. Or people with the items can lend them out, or *gasp* level up another job to use them with.[/quote:bdab9]

If I recall correctly the second place BLM wasn't that far behind the WHM. So to deny someone an item which may or may not drop ever again in a year, just because they missed out on a week of events, and give it to someone who "deserves" it more but cant even use it is pretty crazy imo.

[Stilgar]

[quote:443f8]Personally I would prefer a shell in which drops are distributed without points. But Titan is fragmented beyond belief in the endgame. There are more HNM shells than I can count and even more beefs between them. So we used a basic structure to reward contributions people have made. Its not too formal, so it avoids people griping about technicalities. And it ensures people don't bitch, since the rules are fair and constant. As for people getting items that they can't make much use out of - yeah, it sucks. But in the end it boils down to this: we're trusting our members not to be assholes and just sell off some of the rarest items on the server, so we should be able to trust them not to bid maliciously. For the overwhelming majority of items that has held, and for that one little Novio, it turned out not to be too big a deal. The BLM that was next in line, the one person in the entire game that has any right to make a complaint, was the bigger man and shrugged it off in order to keep the peace and keep the shell moving forward. You'd think people from other servers could do the same.

Quoted for truth. Many HNM LSs are unbiased with jobs (as long as you can use it) and items are based on contributions/attendence. If you want the item, show up more.

Yes. I won't be a part of any LS with any other system than what's described above. Everyone who helps the LS earn these items ought to be able to reap the rewards in proportion to how much effort they put in.

What is done with the item, or the opportunity cost of giving item A to job 1 over job 2, is irrelevant. SeaShell didn't need a Novio to kill JoL, nor a sash to kill AV. If these items are needed to kill w/e Ubar megaboss ToAU gives us (as if, lol), then more can be earned for other people. Or people with the items can lend them out, or *gasp* level up another job to use them with.

If I recall correctly the second place BLM wasn't that far behind the WHM. So to deny someone an item which may or may not drop ever again in a year, just because they missed out on a week of events, and give it to someone who "deserves" it more but cant even use it is pretty crazy imo.[/quote:443f8]

Ah, well see, now we're talking about degrees of 'deservedness,' or what you might call a 'point system.' This is a whole other beast. Who deserves what based on their job or anything else goes right out the window, and the person with the highest score just takes whatever the hell they want without anyone lotting against them.

[Ryko]

Wasn't it stated that the whm in question was lvling up his blm?

I said you wouldnt plainly give a BLM a ridill regardless of attendance or what he plans on leveling up in the future, it's stupid

[Not Kuno]

How many people, especially BLMs, do you know at endgame who haven't levelled a melee job?

/