LS bank suspended

[Boyiee]

All they need to do is Moniter trades, oh how diffucult.

Then they'll see the same level 1 jeuno mithra named Kujaed trading round lots of 1-100 mil between players, with an average log on time of 30 seconds, normally in front of the debox guy in LJ.





...Yes i see you there Kujaed, and i noticed your little emotes with certain people before logging out, and i also notice their immediate turning around and purchasing of HQ SH's and items on the AH as a rank3 level 47 characters. And the purchasing of hq cursed gear and eswords by a rdm who says he solos everyday when in his language the word "solo" means to sit in front of the AH and wait for Kujaed daily and never leave town.

nice kujata.

[Stellar]

The mule rarely has over 100mil on it, but is constantly sending and trading out gil to people, its pretty active..

and lol at the idiot who thinks shes really selling gil...

[Raivyn]

If possible... ask GMs what kind of behavior they attributed to being RMT (not like they'd tell you, but meh).

... and if their answer is "she had a fuckton of gil", just /slap them.

Seriously though... if we got some insight into the "mysterious" ways that they hunt for RMT, then perhaps we could provide GMs with some suggestions that might, um... you know, actually work and stuff.

You mean things like "buy 5m of gil from IGE and ban the sender and all it's associated accounts and accounts with matching billing info?"

Yeah stuff like that is way too hard for SE, they need to focus more on making sure people don't alt-tab to browse the web while waiting on their fucking HNM to pop.

Great idea. It's kind of entrapment, but they write the fucking tos, so who cares.

[epigram]

I like splits, screw ls bank :D.

[MisterBob]

If possible... ask GMs what kind of behavior they attributed to being RMT (not like they'd tell you, but meh).

... and if their answer is "she had a fuckton of gil", just /slap them.

Seriously though... if we got some insight into the "mysterious" ways that they hunt for RMT, then perhaps we could provide GMs with some suggestions that might, um... you know, actually work and stuff.

You mean things like "buy 5m of gil from IGE and ban the sender and all it's associated accounts and accounts with matching billing info?"

Yeah stuff like that is way too hard for SE, they need to focus more on making sure people don't alt-tab to browse the web while waiting on their fucking HNM to pop.

Great idea. It's kind of entrapment, but they write the fucking tos, so who cares.

Yeah, but their ToS doesn't apply to real life. In our crazy world where a fat guy can sue McDonalds for making him fat and win, IGE would most likely be able to file charges against SE for this. Even if it is unlikely, SE, like any smart company interested in making a profit, will attempt to rule out any solutions that could end up costing them a large amount of money and time.

[Raineer]

If possible... ask GMs what kind of behavior they attributed to being RMT (not like they'd tell you, but meh).

... and if their answer is "she had a fuckton of gil", just /slap them.

Seriously though... if we got some insight into the "mysterious" ways that they hunt for RMT, then perhaps we could provide GMs with some suggestions that might, um... you know, actually work and stuff.

You mean things like "buy 5m of gil from IGE and ban the sender and all it's associated accounts and accounts with matching billing info?"

Yeah stuff like that is way too hard for SE, they need to focus more on making sure people don't alt-tab to browse the web while waiting on their fucking HNM to pop.

Great idea. It's kind of entrapment, but they write the fucking tos, so who cares.

Exactly, the write it so they can enforce it however they see fit. If you can be banned for killing another player while charmed they can ban you for delivering gil they purchased.

[Septimus]

If possible... ask GMs what kind of behavior they attributed to being RMT (not like they'd tell you, but meh).

... and if their answer is "she had a fuckton of gil", just /slap them.

Seriously though... if we got some insight into the "mysterious" ways that they hunt for RMT, then perhaps we could provide GMs with some suggestions that might, um... you know, actually work and stuff.

You mean things like "buy 5m of gil from IGE and ban the sender and all it's associated accounts and accounts with matching billing info?"

Yeah stuff like that is way too hard for SE, they need to focus more on making sure people don't alt-tab to browse the web while waiting on their fucking HNM to pop.

Great idea. It's kind of entrapment, but they write the fucking tos, so who cares.

Exactly, the write it so they can enforce it however they see fit. If you can be banned for killing another player while charmed they can ban you for delivering gil they purchased.

I bet they would ban you if you delivered purchased gil while you were charmed.

[Dezzimal]

killing another player while charmed

Story time?

I've KO'd 2 different people @ tiamat spawn who were fighting corses and each time wondered if I would get a GM talking to me in the next few hours.

[Raineer]

killing another player while charmed

Story time?

I've KO'd 2 different people @ tiamat spawn who were fighting corses and each time wondered if I would get a GM talking to me in the next few hours.

You'll only be banned if you were charmed by the corse at the time.

[Jeryhn]

Yeah, but their ToS doesn't apply to real life. In our crazy world where a fat guy can sue McDonalds for making him fat and win, IGE would most likely be able to file charges against SE for this. Even if it is unlikely, SE, like any smart company interested in making a profit, will attempt to rule out any solutions that could end up costing them a large amount of money and time.

And this is why RMT is still such a problem.

Even though virtual items and gil are technically the property of Square Enix, a case can be made in a court of law that the player's time and effort were required to accumulate the items, and as such, are considered the property of that person, who can buy or sell what they own at their discretion, since there is no law against or regulations on the sale of virtual items. This is what a GM means when they give you an argument that you assume is half-assed when they refer to RMT vs. their legal department.

Basically, if SE tried to sue IGE for making gil transactions within their game, the only thing they'd end up doing is legitimizing the business, and lose money in legal costs doing it.

[Epidemic]

It just makes me sad that all they do is ban the mules with gil. I really wish they'd ban the heart of the operations like the RMTs who actually farm sky, behemoth, etc.

[aurik]

If possible... ask GMs what kind of behavior they attributed to being RMT (not like they'd tell you, but meh).

... and if their answer is "she had a fuckton of gil", just /slap them.

Seriously though... if we got some insight into the "mysterious" ways that they hunt for RMT, then perhaps we could provide GMs with some suggestions that might, um... you know, actually work and stuff.

You mean things like "buy 5m of gil from IGE and ban the sender and all it's associated accounts and accounts with matching billing info?"

Yeah stuff like that is way too hard for SE, they need to focus more on making sure people don't alt-tab to browse the web while waiting on their fucking HNM to pop.

Great idea. It's kind of entrapment, but they write the fucking tos, so who cares.

It's not entrapment. To qualify as entrapment, SE has to be the source of the idea. However, since IGE publically offers to sell gil via a website, obviously they have the idea without SE's intervention.

Just like if you were selling narcotics online via a website, and the DEA ordered some and then arrested you, you couldn't claim entrapment: the fact that you were offering the service prior to the DEA contacting you shows that you had previously conceived the notion of dealing the narcotics.

A case where it would be entrapment would be if an undercover cop saw you rolling a joint to smoke and they come up and say "hey I'll give you $10 to split that with me". They could nail you for posession, but they could not nail you for selling marijuana, since the cop was the person who suggested the idea of a sale to you in the first place--he entrapped you.

[aurik]

Yeah, but their ToS doesn't apply to real life. In our crazy world where a fat guy can sue McDonalds for making him fat and win, IGE would most likely be able to file charges against SE for this. Even if it is unlikely, SE, like any smart company interested in making a profit, will attempt to rule out any solutions that could end up costing them a large amount of money and time.

And this is why RMT is still such a problem.

Even though virtual items and gil are technically the property of Square Enix, a case can be made in a court of law that the player's time and effort were required to accumulate the items, and as such, are considered the property of that person, who can buy or sell what they own at their discretion, since there is no law against or regulations on the sale of virtual items. This is what a GM means when they give you an argument that you assume is half-assed when they refer to RMT vs. their legal department.

Basically, if SE tried to sue IGE for making gil transactions within their game, the only thing they'd end up doing is legitimizing the business, and lose money in legal costs doing it.

SE may not be able to sue and/or get a desist order for IGE, but they are well within their rights to ban IGE mules for ToS violations on the spot.

[Jeryhn]

It's not entrapment. To qualify as entrapment, SE has to be the source of the idea. However, since IGE publically offers to sell gil via a website, obviously they have the idea without SE's intervention.

Just like if you were selling narcotics online via a website, and the DEA ordered some and then arrested you, you couldn't claim entrapment: the fact that you were offering the service prior to the DEA contacting you shows that you had previously conceived the notion of dealing the narcotics.

A case where it would be entrapment would be if an undercover cop saw you rolling a joint to smoke and they come up and say "hey I'll give you $10 to split that with me". They could nail you for posession, but they could not nail you for selling marijuana, since the cop was the person who suggested the idea of a sale to you in the first place--he entrapped you.

Ran into a few pigs in your day didya?

This is the correct definition of entrapment. That, and entrapment would only apply to a criminal-type case. It would have no bearing on civil cases, like RMT, I'm pretty sure.

[Jeryhn]

Yeah, but their ToS doesn't apply to real life. In our crazy world where a fat guy can sue McDonalds for making him fat and win, IGE would most likely be able to file charges against SE for this. Even if it is unlikely, SE, like any smart company interested in making a profit, will attempt to rule out any solutions that could end up costing them a large amount of money and time.

And this is why RMT is still such a problem.

Even though virtual items and gil are technically the property of Square Enix, a case can be made in a court of law that the player's time and effort were required to accumulate the items, and as such, are considered the property of that person, who can buy or sell what they own at their discretion, since there is no law against or regulations on the sale of virtual items. This is what a GM means when they give you an argument that you assume is half-assed when they refer to RMT vs. their legal department.

Basically, if SE tried to sue IGE for making gil transactions within their game, the only thing they'd end up doing is legitimizing the business, and lose money in legal costs doing it.

SE may not be able to sue and/or get a desist order for IGE, but they are well within their rights to ban IGE mules for ToS violations on the spot.

Which is what they can do, and enforce. Unfortunately, this is the scope of the "powah" of the ToS.

Unless demand wanes, the supply of gil never will. Since a case cannot be made to remove gilbuyers, RMT will continue to run rampant in any and all online games.

[MisterBob]

SE may not be able to sue and/or get a desist order for IGE, but they are well within their rights to ban IGE mules for ToS violations on the spot.

Are you are of the pseudo-recent case where a player of Second Life sued the creators for confiscating his ingame money because he acquired it through a bug in the game?

[LOLDOLPHINS]

I'm sorry to hear that.

The same problem happened to me. I used to store my extra gil on my mule and they suspended the account. And unfortunatly, I couldn't get it back.

Seemingly, SE randomly searches for Lv.1 characters with lots of Gil that log in only to send/trade gil to other players, or to buy expensive equipment/items off AH and send them via NPC to other characters.

I think you guys already know that RMT use Lv.1 mules to send the purchased Gil to the buyer. It's obvious, they don't want to look suspcious by any means. It's not like I bought gil before but people that did used to tell me that they recived the gil they purchased from anonymous players. And that they send it and log off immediatly. So, obviously, they suspended you're mule because they thought you were a RMT. Cause maybe you log in to send gil/items/equipment to other characters and log off.


I don't know, Stellar, personally, I didn't get my mule back and I didn't put any effort in getting it back to be frank. You should give it a try. Hopefully they'll give it back.

[aurik]

SE may not be able to sue and/or get a desist order for IGE, but they are well within their rights to ban IGE mules for ToS violations on the spot.

Are you are of the pseudo-recent case where a player of Second Life sued the creators for confiscating his ingame money because he acquired it through a bug in the game?

You can sue anyone for virtually anything, valid or not; whether you win anything is a totally different question.

However, it costs money to defend yourself in a civil court, so I'm sure it's something SE would prefer to avoid.

[MisterBob]

SE may not be able to sue and/or get a desist order for IGE, but they are well within their rights to ban IGE mules for ToS violations on the spot.

Are you are of the pseudo-recent case where a player of Second Life sued the creators for confiscating his ingame money because he acquired it through a bug in the game?

You can sue anyone for virtually anything, valid or not; whether you win anything is a totally different question.

However, it costs money to defend yourself in a civil court, so I'm sure it's something SE would prefer to avoid.

Which is exactly my point here, and it is why SE is not going to employ the aforementioned technique, with good reason.

[loial]

The mule rarely has over 100mil on it, but is constantly sending and trading out gil to people, its pretty active..

How would a GM distinguish between a mule sending out gil "actively" vs. a mule involved in RMT transaction sending/trading gil actively?

They couldn't. Therefore, this mule might be suspended for a different reason than you think. Maybe the mule was trading gil to a member that was RMTing. And they are trying to trace the source.