FFXI: An Examination

[Kirianna]

I don't like upward progression like in WoW becuase it means that the time I spend to get an item becomes meaningless by the next patch.

You go to molten core, you get full Might 8/8. Then you go to BWL and you get full wrath 8/8. With the exception of the odd item for macroing(I can't even think of an example but I don't follow WoW as closely) you can basically D/E the might stuff for nexus crystals to enchant the wrath.

it's not sideways progression like FF. The time everyone invested in getting a bunch of byakko's haidate or kirin's osodes 1 year ago is still valuable since those items are still good. Sure, it can take a long time to get an item, but once you do you're done. You don't have to repeat that effort again and again to get the next item.

I dunno, I just prefer the way they do loot here. Ya there's some issues I agree with you guys on, but by-in-large I think SE has the right idea.

[Priran]

Flux: Assault

Also, QUIT

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I don't like upward progression like in WoW becuase it means that the time I spend to get an item becomes meaningless by the next patch.

You go to molten core, you get full Might 8/8. Then you go to BWL and you get full wrath 8/8. With the exception of the odd item for macroing(I can't even think of an example but I don't follow WoW as closely) you can basically D/E the might stuff for nexus crystals to enchant the wrath.

it's not sideways progression like FF. The time everyone invested in getting a bunch of byakko's haidate or kirin's osodes 1 year ago is still valuable since those items are still good. Sure, it can take a long time to get an item, but once you do you're done. You don't have to repeat that effort again and again to get the next item.

I dunno, I just prefer the way they do loot here. Ya there's some issues I agree with you guys on, but by-in-large I think SE has the right idea.

100% agree

To OP: I've heard it all before. I'm sure they've heard it all before. Its well written though. Fact is they make these decisions because they want their game to be like this. If you are not liking the product they are providing you stop paying for it. They are making this product according to their ideas. Not all ideas are going to be liked by everyone. They have made a lot of decisions I like, and a lot I don't, but I don't doubt for a moment that they want a good game made.

[darkdeath]

Kiranna is right, i handt tought of it like that. Why should i effort on getting the items right now, if ik now that in one month there will be a lot better items.. Makes no sense at all for me.

[½pint]

To OP: I've heard it all before. I'm sure they've heard it all before. Its well written though. Fact is they make these decisions because they want their game to be like this. Blah blah emo drk lalalawww. If you are not liking the product they are providing you stop paying for it. They are making this product according to their ideas. Not all ideas are going to be liked by everyone. They have made a lot of decisions I like, and a lot I don't, but I don't doubt for a moment that they want to make as much money as possible.

Un-DRK'ed.

[FFXIFlux]

Flux: Assault

Also, QUIT

You consider 3 person assault missons you can do in a couple hours a week tops to be end-game that require a linkshell for?

You're a retard.

[epigram]

To OP: I've heard it all before. I'm sure they've heard it all before. Its well written though. Fact is they make these decisions because they want their game to be like this. If you are not liking the product they are providing you stop paying for it. They are making this product according to their ideas. Not all ideas are going to be liked by everyone. They have made a lot of decisions I like, and a lot I don't, but I don't doubt for a moment that they want a good game made.

The fact is we have heard it all before but we never get a response or meaningful change from SE. NON-INSTANCED CLAIM POPPED HNM are broken. It's not a way to make a game meaningful or enjoyable. Before when people bitched it was because a JP shell or NA shell monopolized, now it's because gil sellers are monopolizing things, and soon the kings will be in GS hands.

SE needs to do something about these systems because they promote monopilization of resources, they are horrible game mechanics that need to be fixed. SE has had over three years to do something but hasn't done shit. Now to fix it they need to add new equivalent items elsewhere, move existing items elsewhere, or create new methods for these nm's to be popped.

I don't care what SE's design is, it's flawed, it's broken, and we don't hear shit about if they even know it's an issue. It's called lack of developer feedback where we have to dress up like a flaming fuckwads to get a chance to ask a question to a panel once a year...

[Priran]

Flux: Assault

Also, QUIT

You consider 3 person assault missons you can do in a couple hours a week tops to be end-game that require a linkshell for?

You're a retard.

You can solo limbus so that's a fairly shitty argument.

[Tarukiss]

Flux: Assault

Also, QUIT

You consider 3 person assault missons you can do in a couple hours a week tops to be end-game that require a linkshell for?

You're a retard.

It is endgame worthy content that, thank god, does not require 3h+ camps and/or 17ish other retards to accomplish.

Lets see what the update and future updates bring to do the table as well. It might end up being on par with limbus content.

Look at the success and interest Ryko and others had with the Assault Mission Tier threads.
Endgame players enjoy this content because its both fun AND rewarding.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...ss/Yturban.jpg


As is, you can enjoy a healthy endgame with just dynamis/limbus/assault with enough free time to craft, lvl, or just plain screw around week after week.

You can solo limbus so that's a fairly shitty argument.

To be fair, when people think endgame-limbus they think Omega and Ultima.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

To OP: I've heard it all before. I'm sure they've heard it all before. Its well written though. Fact is they make these decisions because they want their game to be like this. Blah blah emo drk lalalawww. If you are not liking the product they are providing you stop paying for it. They are making this product according to their ideas. Not all ideas are going to be liked by everyone. They have made a lot of decisions I like, and a lot I don't, but I don't doubt for a moment that they want to make as much money as possible.

Un-DRK'ed.

Just wondering, what the hell does being a DRK have to do with anything.
Believe it or not a lot of game designers take pride in their work. They make things the way they make them because they think its right for some reason. They aren't always successful and seem to be too prideful for their own good, refusing to correct things that end up mistakes. On other things they seem to be smarter than everybody else, like how CoP was initially, how they made promyvions too hard so that few could make it to tavnazia fast. It was a cool thing to beat the prommies. Then they lower the difficulty later. Compare to ToAU, how there was a mad rush into everything and massive overcrowding. It may be a bad symptom of a good thing. Now they still could have improved it greatly, no doubt about that. But they did some interesting things, some more successful than many people think.

[Quicklet]

This is barely worth explaining, but...

If I were you, I would petition for more communication from developers before anything else. For all you know, they may have already implemented those ideas in ToAU but you won't actually be seeing the majority of them until later in the expansion cycle. The majority of the design decisions about an expansion seem to be made months in advance, and while I don't know at what point itemization is considered, you're asking for a lot of design changes to parts of the game that the devs won't want to spend time on because it will take away manpower from the expansion.

I fail to understand why you want to do this at a time when the last patch gave a ton of worthwhile content by FFXI standards, albeit not exactly what you're looking for, and a new patch is coming in a few weeks. It really just sounds like whining over an age old wish list when the expansion is already headed in the right direction. If the patch sucks when it comes out, then complain, but I don't understand why you're unsatisfied with the game when it hasn't even been 1 patch from the expansion.

Oh, and because I'm bored...

A few months in and ToA has given us... well. 0 hours of end-game content. Double score!

First patch gave you:
1) 3 new jobs, at least two of which are very good
2) 3 tiers of Assault
3) new leveling locations
4) new itemization options in certain slots
5) 50 new storage slots

You of all people should know that the endgame content of the expansion doesn't come until about a year after the expansion is released. I'm sure if you compared the first patch of CoP with that list, it would totally match up right? Now #1, #2, and #3 may not match your definition of endgame but they're all major improvements to the game and will have an impact to endgame, and all provide accessible things to do as opposed to more camping or ridiculously imbalanced encounters. #4 is a nice surprise for the first patch out of an expansion, and #5 is just really convenient and it sounds like it will be even more so next patch.

[Priran]

You can solo limbus so that's a fairly shitty argument.

To be fair, when people think endgame-limbus they think Omega and Ultima.

To be fair, there's no equivalent to that in Assault. To compare a basically an ENM to a NM with at least a month of farming prerequisate is fucking retarded and I have no clue why Flux brought it up.

No one even fucking cares how difficult obtaining a high-level item is. Limbus=Nashira/Homam. Assault=Pahluwan/Amir/Yigit. So because Ridill drops from lolfafnir it's not an endgame item? Okay.

[aurik]

stuff

very good post.

[FFXIFlux]

You can solo limbus so that's a fairly shitty argument.

To be fair, when people think endgame-limbus they think Omega and Ultima.

To be fair, there's no equivalent to that in Assault. To compare a basically an ENM to a NM with at least a month of farming prerequisate is fucking retarded and I have no clue why Flux brought it up.

As you said, comparing Limbus to Assault is fucking retarded. Why did I bring it up comparison? I didn't, you're the one that did. Why did you do it? Because you're retarded. Grats.

[Priran]

So... CoP gave us 1 hour of raiding per week with Limbus. Score.

A few months in and ToA has given us... well. 0 hours of end-game content. Double score!

Fixed for apparent accuracy

[BRP]

You don't need all words... just need.




AMOOD

WHAT THE FUCK SE?! WHAT-THE-FUCK-?!



Seriously, what a potentially awesome item completely ruined by some moron who doesn't understand- no, someone who doesn't understand FFXI would understand that Amood was biggest waste of potential since Sea, or Garrison, or EFs.

If you are going to make any arguement, simply say, "Amood and Amood +1 would be have been a dream weapon for WARs, who you want to not all sub NIN like some clone army, to build TP for slightly lower damage, but WS for decent damage. INSTEAD, you simply gimped their WS damage for like... 1-2 hours and not let them build TP fast enough for the rest of the day. It is, in all regards, a lose-lose situation. If you are going to make a constume model for a weapon that is apparently making people's PS2 explode, then make it worth it, not some RMTer's toy".

Mention how Garrison(of all caps), some BC/KSNMs, some zones, some ENMs, and EFs are simply ignored. SE needs to look what people are playing the game. Aside from listening to players, this is the best thing they can do(okay, third best, getting rid of RMT Farmers would be second best), is just watch what players are not doing and fix it.

-Add drops to BCNMs and KSNMs that take away people from low level, or dare I say, high level NMs. I do not mean adding Abjurations to KS99s, because this would simply destroy all desire for people to do KSNMs of lower tier.

-Wow, Assault is greatastic! You can pick your cap. Why not apply this to Garrison and EFs. Make Garrison effect Conquest and make EFs count x2-3 more than it does now(sorry a centimeter for 4 flags isn't enough). Also add rewards that would make people want to them with this ability to either do them as a new social LS filled with level 40s and 50s, or high-level social or open-minded end-game LS with 75s. Maybe have this decide an exp bonus which would be added to Signet(like Sanction, cept assholes don't lose the Astral on you and your effort is not in vain!). Make it possible to be a patriot in this game again. (Oh, and fix Signet at the same time)

-Gee, no one goes to Dangruf Wadi. Do something about it. Add quests... NMs... stuff. If a map has an open area or at least 4 squares on the map with nothing at all, either add a good NM or two, a worthwile quest or three, or a good experience point camp. Why not turn Wadi into a KRT with high-level goblins and bats(yay DRG!) filling up that long black tunnel that has no use-what-so-ever(I bet most players on this board don't know what I'm talking about, and I don't blame them). You want people back to the mid-lands? Add someway back to them... an outpost warper in Nashmau. This would not only get people out of Al Zahbi(by this I mean the city, not the zone), but it will also get people to use that empty zone known as "Nashmau-Al Zahbi Route". Oh, and to prevent boats from being empty, make fishing worth a damn. Airships should reach Jeuno and towns every 6 minutes at most, not 11 minutes. It's just too damn long.

-Could anyone tell why anyone would want a Bladefish(http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4169) or an Icefish(http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4193), they don't do anything! It's like farming Cactuar Needles, no wonder fishing is so popular! Every fish should have a use in another craft(with majority being cooking) or a quest that people care about. And, ignore that first part, if you aren't going to fix crafting in general. See what I said about fish? Well, make more uses for every single ingrident in the game, CoP stuff comes to mind. Why not have Cactuar Needles be involved in a cheaper alternative recipe for that Cactuar Jug, but have it require a crafting-keyitem or something. Expand the use for every crafting-keyitem currently in the game. The addition of Anima was kickass, but stuff like "Alchemic Purification" makes only one god-damned item "Hallowed Water", which is used in only 7 recipes of weapons I've never seen in my life. Cerberus looks like a start a good possible system, where HNMs drop unique crafting materials, requiring a LS crafter, but make the NQs suck less(or the item suck less in general). Make desything easier. Add repeatable quests to keep hardcore crafters busy, have these quests take items no one cares about and have them spit omg-yus-materials(V Claw) but rare/ex version, so that guy makes a SH to make money. Make crafting even more of a playing style.

-Make the uncapped CoP zones worthwhile. Ule Range needs a quest that unlocks teleports at each cave. Maybe something simple as climbing the mountain once to get quest, then landing on different platforms to slowly unlock teleports to higher and higher caves, to the point that you take to a NPC at entrance and he warps you to the tunnel 10-seconds away from IT Kindred. Tie it to Excemillie or something, we don't know anything about that guy. Suddenly its easy to experience there and ENM there for people who do quests. Add NMs to Attowha Chasm, have it follow my-four-square rule. Make Movapols more worthwhile. Add enough NMs to both zones so its a worthy Temple/Den counterpart. Have one of those NMs be a PH/King NM(gogo, Mayor) like the original Beastmen. While at it, just add PH/Kings to the Outlands. Also, turn Memory Fluxes into elevators in the first three promies(but have them not work with a Fellow with you). Add more stuff to care about on the island off Bibiki Bay. Making claiming cooler, I don't care.

-More drops to ENMs and another 18 man ENM wouldn't hurt, maybe one involving Moblins. Another solo ENM would be neat too, maybe involving your fellow. Boost the amount of exp rewarded for cap 50/60 by 500, and 1000 to 1500 for uncapped. Whenever making exp rewards for stuff like this, consider how much exp one player makes in an hour of being in a party.

-Get people to do PvP. Make it give more exp(how about an uncapped Brenner giving a total 4000 instead of 1500), also steal from WoW and make PvP armor. Stuff that is decent outside of PvP and godly inside(level 60, neckpiece, +7 Acc +7 Rng Acc +7 Eva, Conflict: +14 Acc +14 Rng acc +14 Eva). Based points on not only killing, but enfeebaling, healing, and buffing. Make it so, you only get 1/5 the points you should if your team loses, so people who want the armor have to care.

Back to items. No item should outlive 10 to 15 levels. By level 25, Leaping/Bounding Boots should have a good alternative that is either better, just as good, or better or just as good in other stats. A lot of items could use this, rare/ex versions, crafting versions, and easier to get versions all through-out the level ranges. You want people to do Garrison? Have uncapped Garrison have a chance to drop rare/ex +3 INT +8 Elemental Skill +8 Ninjetsu Skill, +3 MND +8 Enhancing +8 Enfeebaling, or +3 CHR +8 Singing Skill +8 Wind Skill torques. Have level 30 drop sellable +1 INT +1 Elemental Skill torques and ect.

God what a damn wall of text this has become, simply tabbing back and forth, doing other things while typing this over almost an hour or two.

But, on endgame:

What is endgame exactly?

Is endgame something you do at the end of the game or is it something that involves a large amount of people and stress?

[darkdeath]

damn, this thread has 2 BIG WALL O TEXT. It has some great ideas tough, i enjoyed spending 10minutes of my time reading your toughts on what should be done to make FFXI more interesting.

[ZamK]

Well-said, thanks for sharing it. I'll be sendin' it off to SE too.

[Janice]

I always thought Ouryu -> bahamut was a great idea that they should do with all the wyrms.

Do ENM's for a chance to get one of 4 orbs. Each orb corresponds to a particular wyrm. Each wyrm fight drops a pop item for Bahamut. Collect all 4 pop items and pop Bahamut. It's pretty much like the whole sky concept except you arent waiting for NMs to pop, you are trying to collect the items on the time your ls dictates.

Heck it even sounds simple to set up. ENM's can drop Ouryu's orb. EF can drop Tiamats orb. Garrison can drop Jorg orb. BCNMs can drop Vrtra orb. Just killed two birds with one stone. Get people to do out of date stuff.

I'm pretty sure everyone liked the way sky was set up (before this current gil seller trend going on). How often did most people here spend in sky? And how rewarding was it? SE needs to do more of that.

[layoneil]

You don't need all words... just need.




AMOOD

i can trump your Amood with Bahamut's Zaghnal.

with all the things necessary to obtain this item, clear all of CoP, RotZ and Ouryu, what retard decided it should have 24 damage?