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  1. #1
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Skilling up with insufficient subs

    Ok so I got an idea about leaving your subs really low on a skill up synth so you'll break it 100% and thus saving materials. I havn't heard of anyone doing this before and I couldn't find anything by searching here on BG. The item I tried this on was Death Scythe. Level 93 Smithing synth which requires Woodworking at (?) and Alchemy at 59. First I leveled both WW and Alchemy to 42 cause I thought 18 below cap was the lowest you could be to attempt a synth. I was wrong. I got them both 2 levels higher and it worked. It worked once I hit 44 Alchemy and at that level I'm 15 away (different for subs?).

    Anyways here's the results:

    91.0 to 92.0 took 68 synths and I lost 103 darksteel ingots.

    92.0 to 93.0 took 37 synths and I lost 47 darksteel ingots.

    So here I'm a bit puzzled. In general I'd say past 60 it takes 36 synths or so to get a whole level. Did I have reeeally bad luck 91-92 or was I just really lucky 92-93? When you synth and break does it lower skill up rates? I'm not sure about this but I know that if you attempt a recipe that's 10-11 higher levels then you you get less skill ups but is it cause you break so much or cause you're just not in the prime skill up zone?

    Ok, so by doing it this way I used a total of 12.5 stacks of DS ingots. Going by 36 synths per lvl I'd have used 216 DS ingots ie 18 stacks if I would have had my subs capped. I saved 5.5 stacks. But I didn't take in account that I could have HQd one and made some money back.

    Just thought this might be usefull for other synths too but there's still some things I don't understand and I hope you can help!

  2. #2
    Forum Donator
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    Its always been 15 levels under cap to be able to synth it. Try it on any mule.

    This technique is called break synthing and can be profitable in the long run if theres only one really expensive ingredient. It has been suggested that loading up your mog house with your crystal element and having Mog Hancement: (Crystal you are using) makes it cheaper as well.

  3. #3

    Re: Skilling up with insufficient subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Moochi
    Ok so I got an idea about leaving your subs really low on a skill up synth so you'll break it 100% and thus saving materials. I havn't heard of anyone doing this before and I couldn't find anything by searching here on BG. The item I tried this on was Death Scythe. Level 93 Smithing synth which requires Woodworking at (?) and Alchemy at 59. First I leveled both WW and Alchemy to 42 cause I thought 18 below cap was the lowest you could be to attempt a synth. I was wrong. I got them both 2 levels higher and it worked. It worked once I hit 44 Alchemy and at that level I'm 15 away (different for subs?).

    Anyways here's the results:

    91.0 to 92.0 took 68 synths and I lost 103 darksteel ingots.

    92.0 to 93.0 took 37 synths and I lost 47 darksteel ingots.

    So here I'm a bit puzzled. In general I'd say past 60 it takes 36 synths or so to get a whole level. Did I have reeeally bad luck 91-92 or was I just really lucky 92-93? When you synth and break does it lower skill up rates? I'm not sure about this but I know that if you attempt a recipe that's 10-11 higher levels then you you get less skill ups but is it cause you break so much or cause you're just not in the prime skill up zone?

    Ok, so by doing it this way I used a total of 12.5 stacks of DS ingots. Going by 36 synths per lvl I'd have used 216 DS ingots ie 18 stacks if I would have had my subs capped. I saved 5.5 stacks. But I didn't take in account that I could have HQd one and made some money back.

    Just thought this might be usefull for other synths too but there's still some things I don't understand and I hope you can help!
    1) This is really old news But it's a neat trick and bears repeating.
    2) All skills have to be within 15 of the recipe cap in order for you to be able to synth (or desynth!) something. The "18" you heard is the max distance you can synth something with advanced support -- well advanced support adds 3 to your skill, and you can see that 18 = 15 away + 3 from adv support.
    3) Its about 40 synths per level in the veteran range. It took me about 440 synths to go 89->100 cloth. Max per level was ~62, min was ~27. Since this time I believe Wizerd replicated my experiment in the 70s/80s, reinforcing a "25%" skillup rate.
    4) If you are farther than 5 from cap for a specific craft on a recipe, you won't get any skill if you break the synth.
    5) If you are within 5 from cap for a specific craft, then the skillup rate seems to be the same regardless of break or make.

  4. #4
    Bagel
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Cerberus

    WW have been doing this for awhile from 99-->100 w/ Iron-splitters to cut down on the cost of Adaman Ingots. (Smithing sub)

  5. #5
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
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    Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I was always aware of the idea to break synths to keep materials I just never knew ppl did it using underleveled subs. Though I guess it makes sense cause it's hard to do any other way.

    Can't win them all!

  6. #6
    Forum Donator
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    Re: Skilling up with insufficient subs

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    1) This is really old news But it's a neat trick and bears repeating.
    2) All skills have to be within 15 of the recipe cap in order for you to be able to synth (or desynth!) something. The "18" you heard is the max distance you can synth something with advanced support -- well advanced support adds 3 to your skill, and you can see that 18 = 15 away + 3 from adv support.
    3) Its about 40 synths per level in the veteran range. It took me about 440 synths to go 89->100 cloth. Max per level was ~62, min was ~27. Since this time I believe Wizerd replicated my experiment in the 70s/80s, reinforcing a "25%" skillup rate.
    4) If you are farther than 5 from cap for a specific craft on a recipe, you won't get any skill if you break the synth.
    5) If you are within 5 from cap for a specific craft, then the skillup rate seems to be the same regardless of break or make.
    I walked wizerd through the later stages of the 70/80 grind wiht the idea of getting overwhelming fire moghancement. Not sure if he saw a different rate but he was getting a good skill up rate compared to what I was getting at teh same level.

    Strangely enough, my 87 > 92 push gave me an absurd skill up rate. I was averaging about 25% skill up rate. I believe I did 87 > 92 using 12 or so stacks of gold ingots. Might even have been less. It wasn't uncommon for me to get 0.7 off one stack of gold ingots (muscle belt recipe)

  7. #7
    Melee Summoner
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    43
    BG Level
    1

    Breakskilling was the only thing that let me keep my sanity from 70-80 gold. Overwhelming elemental moghancement is really important to have while intentionally breaking. When I first started I tried minor fire moghancement (breaking gold cuisses/gauntlets/cuirass), and was losing tremendous amounts of ingredients. Bumped it up to overwhelming with cupboards and dropped costs to about 1~1.5m per level. At one point I got a full level of skill on 7 gold ingots lost. <3

  8. #8
    Melee Summoner
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    26
    BG Level
    1

    Wow... I'm glad I decided to do the shields instead of death scythes. I don't think I lost 500k going from 91-91.9

  9. #9
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    3,157
    BG Level
    7

    Re: Skilling up with insufficient subs

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    1) This is really old news But it's a neat trick and bears repeating.
    2) All skills have to be within 15 of the recipe cap in order for you to be able to synth (or desynth!) something. The "18" you heard is the max distance you can synth something with advanced support -- well advanced support adds 3 to your skill, and you can see that 18 = 15 away + 3 from adv support.
    3) Its about 40 synths per level in the veteran range. It took me about 440 synths to go 89->100 cloth. Max per level was ~62, min was ~27. Since this time I believe Wizerd replicated my experiment in the 70s/80s, reinforcing a "25%" skillup rate.
    4) If you are farther than 5 from cap for a specific craft on a recipe, you won't get any skill if you break the synth.
    5) If you are within 5 from cap for a specific craft, then the skillup rate seems to be the same regardless of break or make.
    Correct. Actually, I recorded all my woodworking skill ups from 60 to 85, and came out with a static average of 36 synths per level. Or, exactly 3 stacks of materials.

    This skill up rate was a repeat of what records I did keep from doing Bonecraft 60 to 100. 90 to 100 didn't seem to change the skill up rate at all, much less reduce it.

    Later, I received the same static average doing Leathercraft from 60 to 98, even while keeping over cap from 96 to 98 with Leathercraft, crafting Dusk Gloves.

    Finally, I pushed through from 69 to 80 Goldsmithing, up to 77 being with break skilling. I kept the same consistant rate of 36 synths per level. In fact, from 73 to 77, I believe I went something along the lines of 38, 35, 36, 36. I'd done up to 73 slightly prior, but noticed the same rate. Gold Bucklers to 80, again, was 35, 36, and 38 synths (or something very close, as I don't have the piece of paper anymore).

    Conclusion: break skilling has the same skill up rate as normal skilling, both of which are somewhere between 35-40 synths per level, averaging closer to 36, regardless of level over lv60.

    P.S.: I'm quitting the game now, so I can't record my Alchemy, Smithing, Cooking, or Clothcraft (on my own character as opposed to my girlfriend's).

  10. #10

    Re: Skilling up with insufficient subs

    Quote Originally Posted by WizerdRemora
    P.S.: I'm quitting the game now, so I can't record my Alchemy, Smithing, Cooking, or Clothcraft (on my own character as opposed to my girlfriend's).
    Not allowed to quit, get your ass back here.

  11. #11
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    501
    BG Level
    5

    Quote Originally Posted by Luen
    Wow... I'm glad I decided to do the shields instead of death scythes. I don't think I lost 500k going from 91-91.9
    I'm well aware you can do that but it's just too slow for me.

    @Wizerd, you can't quit now. Get a relic first.

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicker
    Breakskilling was the only thing that let me keep my sanity from 70-80 gold. Overwhelming elemental moghancement is really important to have while intentionally breaking. When I first started I tried minor fire moghancement (breaking gold cuisses/gauntlets/cuirass), and was losing tremendous amounts of ingredients. Bumped it up to overwhelming with cupboards and dropped costs to about 1~1.5m per level. At one point I got a full level of skill on 7 gold ingots lost. <3
    I just boosted my MH to overwhelming fire, i'm at 73+2 making gold gauntlets(77). got .5 on 12 ingots lost, about 25 total synths i think, wasn't paying all that much attention.

    Hopefully this works out well.

    EDIT: started at 73 on the nose, i'm at 75 now and only out about 29 gold ingots. 2 Full levels and just over 2 stacks of gold ingots is making me happier skilling than i've been in a long time.

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