Waking the Beast (New and Improved...mostly new)

[Excalin Garisk]

Here it is the latest installment of the Quest "Waking the Beast"

I have a few questions that I am trying to get answered based on my research.(below are the other two threads)

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... sc&start=0

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... king+beast

First Question:

What is the most effective way to handle the Elementals? More so who deals damage to the Elementals when they pop up and who sticks to the prime?

Second Question:

If you take an avatar battle on its same elemental day does it increase the respawn time for the elementals?

Third Question:

during the five carby phase during the final BCNM what is the best way to deal with them while avoiding the AFs?

[Gulkeeva]

First Question:

What is the most effective way to handle the Elementals? More so who deals damage to the Elementals when they pop up and who sticks to the prime?

Second Question:

If you take an avatar battle on its same elemental day does it increase the respawn time for the elementals?

Third Question:

during the five carby phase during the final BCNM what is the best way to deal with them while avoiding the AFs?

1.BLM could probably nuke elementals but its most likely shared hate with the prime avatar as they float around the prime. 2 are "attacker" 2 are "Defender" so the 2 attack might come after you, the defneders most likely ignore people.

2. As far as I seen, every BP the prime does they poop out an elemental. No idea what order of defender/attacker they come out as.

3. I did the thing with alot smn.. 1 pet on each kept all the thigns away to AF (like 2-3 carby vs 1 prime carby) each.. probably a better method then that w Only does about 1000? ish AF 1 person 1 AF probably won't be fetal.

[Kuropiko]

First Question:

What is the most effective way to handle the Elementals? More so who deals damage to the Elementals when they pop up and who sticks to the prime?

Don't forget that unusually, melee do a great amount of damage to these. We had a LOT of melee in our alliance and very few BLMs (2 i think) so we had them handle the elemental repops with the BLMs helping them while the SMNs took care of the avatar. Just had the melee fight the avatar in the meantime too and switch targets when an elemental pops.

Just stop lowering the avatar's life when it's at 20%, make sure you have cleared every elemental around, and deal it a good amount of damage rapidly, like a volley of Blood Pacts to force its 2hr while the elementals didnt repop yet (they -ga III instantly at the same time as the 2hr).

Second Question:

If you take an avatar battle on its same elemental day does it increase the respawn time for the elementals?

As Gulkeeva said, everytime they do a Blood Pact.

Third Question:

during the five carby phase during the final BCNM what is the best way to deal with them while avoiding the AFs?

One PC's Carbuncle on every NPC Carbuncle, pull one by one in the corridor. If you don't have 4 SMNs in your group, just have /NIN melees kite them around in the big open area but take care to have a backup kiter just in case, someone might get one-shot.

The only annoying thing with Carbuncle is Searing Light, without this anyone could solo his own Carby. They go down very very fast so you should be ok.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Are blood pacts based on TP in these fights (IE normal mob WS moves?)

[Kuropiko]

Nope, same as the normal 6-man Primes. Sometimes they'll go all-out and chain BPs/Elemental pops, sometimes you'll see 3-4 repops during the whole fight.

[Excalin Garisk]

How would you advise to start this fight? (since there are 4 elementals at the start) Concentrate on the elementals with the Smns on the avatar? I would assume try to take out the attackers then defenders?

[Kuropiko]

Just send avatars on the Prime so they'll tank the elementals long enough (sharing hate) for all your melees/BLMs to defeat them and you should be ok. Then just have everyone hit the Prime when no elementals are up and switch on elementals when they pop.

The elementals also have their elemental add effect just like in Temenos East (Stun for Thunder, Paralyze for Ice, etc...).

Just don't forget the part where they all -ga III when the Prime 2-hours, so hold it at 20%, kill them all and deal a good chuck of damage to the Prime before it summons them again so you'll get hit by -only- the 2-hour attack, which can be quite bad sometimes for people around.

Oh and i didn't mention, in my opinion lv70 Blood Pacts are better on these Primes since they take good melee damage, whereas they're crap on the 6-man Primes.

[Excalin Garisk]

What about normal tanks. Are they even needed at any part since smns will be gang banging the Avatar at all times while everyone else zergs elementals?

[Kuropiko]

Well... You don't really need one. :D

You could use a PLD to tank the Prime if you don't have 4+ SMNs for MP concern. Less than that will run out of MP before killing the avatar so someone tanking it could help if you lack on SMNs to allow them to rest.

NINs would have a really bad time since the Prime's Blood Pacts all go through shadows, including the Heretic Blood Pacts that can do 1k+ damage, i've seen them do up to 1500 on a WAR. More than that, the Prime often "calls" the elemental to help him and then they share hate so your NIN would lose all of his shadows really fast. Not even talking about -ga III spells casted by elementals you cannot Sleep nor Silence.

Anyway, these fights are not really hard, you can even do them with like 10 people with the right setup. Try it and you'll find out, just don't forget your Poison Potions for Shiva. :D

[Valyana]

From my experience (two fights) it looked like the elementals are not summoned after all BP, only after the elemental BP SMN can't use (where did the name Heretic BP come from?).

[Jeryhn]

"Heretic" Bloodpact came from a job idea I posted on Alla/KI about a possible new job ability I called "Heretic Seal". It's another name in the SMN community for the Prime Bloodpacts.

Anyway, I only noticed elementals being summoned when the avatar used a Prime Bloodpact when I did this (still gotta do Carbuncle Prime). The avatars you fight in this quest seem to spam these Bloodpacts more often than their normal counterparts. Keeping the number of elementals summoned low is a good idea if only for reducing the damage you take at Astral Flow. When the avatar aims its Astral Flow Bloodpact at a certain target, all the summoned elementals will aim their associated Tier 3 -ga spell at the same target.

The elementals also have Enspells and Enstatus on their normal attacks. Example: When fighting Garuda Prime, the wind elementals will use Enaero and Ensilence.

[Kuropiko]

Yeah i talked about that en- spell before, i think. As Jeryhn said, they use the Heretic BPs a lot more than the 6-man Primes, not really sure if that's what triggers an elemental to pop. And it's not like their counterpart, this time they really hurt (and still go through shadows).

There's no elemental in the Carby Prime BC as well, you'll just have to fight Carby > 1 Prime > Carby > 2 Primes > Carby > 3 Primes > Carby x5.

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

[Sixtail]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

[Excalin Garisk]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

I had planned to just have someone that can trigger the fight to walk out near the end so we can redo the fights many times for the drops we are after (mainly Shiva's Shotel and Ifrit's Bow)

[Khamsin]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

I had planned to just have someone that can trigger the fight to walk out near the end so we can redo the fights many times for the drops we are after (mainly Shiva's Shotel and Ifrit's Bow)

If that person wants to solo it, sure. I'm fairly certain you need all six "Eye" key items to participate.

[Excalin Garisk]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

I had planned to just have someone that can trigger the fight to walk out near the end so we can redo the fights many times for the drops we are after (mainly Shiva's Shotel and Ifrit's Bow)

If that person wants to solo it, sure. I'm fairly certain you need all six "Eye" key items to participate.

I would have to double check, but I have been given the indication you could enter as long as one person is still triggered for the fight.

[MisterBob]

[quote=Excalin Garisk]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

I had planned to just have someone that can trigger the fight to walk out near the end so we can redo the fights many times for the drops we are after (mainly Shiva's Shotel and Ifrit's Bow)

If that person wants to solo it, sure. I'm fairly certain you need all six "Eye" key items to participate.

I would have to double check, but I have been given the indication you could enter as long as one person is still triggered for the fight.[/quote:651da]

Well, most BCs flagged as a "Quest" (Which this is) will allow people who have completed the quest to participate regardless of items. It should work in theory, but who knows.

[Khamsin]

[quote=MisterBob]

As a side note, if you want to fight Carby again, you have to kill once more every 6 Primes... >.>

Yup and this is the top of the retard peak with this quest.

I had planned to just have someone that can trigger the fight to walk out near the end so we can redo the fights many times for the drops we are after (mainly Shiva's Shotel and Ifrit's Bow)

If that person wants to solo it, sure. I'm fairly certain you need all six "Eye" key items to participate.

I would have to double check, but I have been given the indication you could enter as long as one person is still triggered for the fight.

Well, most BCs flagged as a "Quest" (Which this is) will allow people who have completed the quest to participate regardless of items. It should work in theory, but who knows.[/quote:2fd1d]

The avatar BCs (to obtain the whispers/avatars) are quests, as well, yet require tuning forks for each participant. So if the normal avatar fights are an exception to this rule, the alliance avatar + carby prime fights may very well be. They don't make you use a tuning fork for the alliance avatar fights, but your "Eye" key items may be required for Carbuncle Prime. Someone will just have to try it.

[Excalin Garisk]

In words all we are really doing is GUESSING....you also dont have to redo every prime fight to do fenrir a second time either. Can anyone give us a Definate yes or no from first hand experince?

[Khamsin]

In words all we are really doing is GUESSING....you also dont have to redo every prime fight to do fenrir a second time either. Can anyone give us a Definate yes or no from first hand experince?

You do have to get a key item again, which the Fenrir NPC willingly gives you. Talking to Carbuncle in La Theine, unfortunately, does not allow you to repeat the quest so easily.

But yeah, it'd be nice to at least try, though I have my doubts.