Claustrum / Gate of Tartarus WS Testing

[Tahngarthor]

With fenrir (cheapest effective-in-combat avatar) andrefresh and ballad (backline in the pt in question was me, rdm, brd), I dont really need to rest much if at all (front line all NIN or /NIN so little curing), and on darksday it gets even easier with af2. Really, although not "uber" it's better than it sounds. If I didnt melee in that pt, id essentilaly just be removing some extra damage with almost no benefit to any other aspect of what im doing.

That about sums it up. You're decreasing the potential of 3 frontliners just so you can get ballad and benefit yourself.

WINS THE THREAD

loses the thread because it's bullshit. how many fucking times dose it have to be said that you dont have to force the other melee to get a bard buff. ITS CALLED STAND IN THE RIGHT FUCKING SPOT AND U CAN GET HIT WITH DIFFERENT SONGS THAN OTHER PEOPLE. THEREFORE I'm NOT DECREASING anyone else's capability in the party. so kindly stfu or p ost something constructive. Thats the problem on these forums... Every thread is some kind of game to win or lose.

[Mifaco]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

[aurik]

With fenrir (cheapest effective-in-combat avatar) andrefresh and ballad (backline in the pt in question was me, rdm, brd), I dont really need to rest much if at all (front line all NIN or /NIN so little curing), and on darksday it gets even easier with af2. Really, although not "uber" it's better than it sounds. If I didnt melee in that pt, id essentilaly just be removing some extra damage with almost no benefit to any other aspect of what im doing.

That about sums it up. You're decreasing the potential of 3 frontliners just so you can get ballad and benefit yourself.

WINS THE THREAD

loses the thread because it's bullshit. how many fucking times dose it have to be said that you dont have to force the other melee to get a bard buff. ITS CALLED STAND IN THE RIGHT FUCKING SPOT AND U CAN GET HIT WITH DIFFERENT SONGS THAN OTHER PEOPLE. THEREFORE I'm NOT DECREASING anyone else's capability in the party. so kindly stfu or p ost something constructive. Thats the problem on these forums... Every thread is some kind of game to win or lose.

No minuet no madrigal no march = gtfo you're not doing damage.

[Tahngarthor]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

relic club comes to mind, not relic staff.

[UNCTGTG]

It's 90% jealousy, if anyone in here actually had the opportunity to get a relic for their main 75 they'd take it, even if it was bravura.

THANK YOU

and here comes the flames because what you said was 100% true, without the sarcastic remark of bravura.

[Siatdiat]

With fenrir (cheapest effective-in-combat avatar) andrefresh and ballad (backline in the pt in question was me, rdm, brd), I dont really need to rest much if at all (front line all NIN or /NIN so little curing), and on darksday it gets even easier with af2. Really, although not "uber" it's better than it sounds. If I didnt melee in that pt, id essentilaly just be removing some extra damage with almost no benefit to any other aspect of what im doing.

That about sums it up. You're decreasing the potential of 3 frontliners just so you can get ballad and benefit yourself.

WINS THE THREAD

loses the thread because it's bullshit. how many fucking times dose it have to be said that you dont have to force the other melee to get a bard buff. ITS CALLED STAND IN THE RIGHT FUCKING SPOT AND U CAN GET HIT WITH DIFFERENT SONGS THAN OTHER PEOPLE. THEREFORE I'm NOT DECREASING anyone else's capability in the party. so kindly stfu or p ost something constructive.

Underlined section fails, no time to do this shit in a melee burn.

Also to everyone saying this is being done with ls support, please look back and see where I made that mistake and was corrected by Eaglestrike.

And last, congrats on that bloody spot in your panties Sixtail, your now a full fledged woman.

[Sixtail]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

relic club comes to mind, not relic staff.

Next to bottom of the trash is still trash even if it stinks only .1% less.

[ponskun]

Sixtail, the point some people are trying to make, is that it is something they feel they need to pursue. If dedication, and effort shines enough that an LS is willing to fund it, be it staff, katana, axe etc, that person, in the eyes of the ls and its members, deserves it. If a person is rich enough to support himself, let him/her. It is their money and thus, their choice to spend it however they see fit. Like I said previously, it's all personal preference. My ls is pursuing relic now, and regardless of who it is, I will support them in reaching that goal. It is the reason we join an LS; to help one another out. Right?

[Tahngarthor]

With fenrir (cheapest effective-in-combat avatar) andrefresh and ballad (backline in the pt in question was me, rdm, brd), I dont really need to rest much if at all (front line all NIN or /NIN so little curing), and on darksday it gets even easier with af2. Really, although not "uber" it's better than it sounds. If I didnt melee in that pt, id essentilaly just be removing some extra damage with almost no benefit to any other aspect of what im doing.

That about sums it up. You're decreasing the potential of 3 frontliners just so you can get ballad and benefit yourself.

WINS THE THREAD

loses the thread because it's bullshit. how many fucking times dose it have to be said that you dont have to force the other melee to get a bard buff. ITS CALLED STAND IN THE RIGHT FUCKING SPOT AND U CAN GET HIT WITH DIFFERENT SONGS THAN OTHER PEOPLE. THEREFORE I'm NOT DECREASING anyone else's capability in the party. so kindly stfu or p ost something constructive. Thats the problem on these forums... Every thread is some kind of game to win or lose.

No minuet no madrigal no march = gtfo you're not doing damage.

you gtfo yourself (and sometimes I do have those buffs. FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME ITS NOT MY STAFF DAMAGE BY ITSELF. its the STAFF + the AVATAR + THE BLOOD PACTs + THE WS. IT ALL ADDS UP. I dont need madrigal, I already hit the mob plenty often enough with sushi and life belt. I already said I hit for 45-60 and 100ish crits on those mobs. Thats more than zero. + avatar's melee doing the sameish damage maybe more + blood pacts + 100ish spirit taker = I'm doing some damge. GTFO yourself. I'm not going to post this 20 more times to drive it through your ignorant skull.

I'm not going to bitch about any non-wars and mnks meleeing as long as it isnt comprimising their ability to do what they're normally doing. Swinging my giant stick in that party didnt comprimise my ability to use blood pacts or cure anyone.

[Tahngarthor]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

relic club comes to mind, not relic staff.

Next to bottom of the trash is still trash even if it stinks only .1% less.

Get one, then you have a right to call it trash. Try what i've done, as a galka, with my gear and food witht he party that I had, and then you can talk shit.

-edit- sorry for double post.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Give it up. A lot of these idiots only think WAR and MNK can DD.

[Hyjynx]

Sixtail, the point some people are trying to make, is that it is something they feel they need to pursue. If dedication, and effort shines enough that an LS is willing to fund it, be it staff, katana, axe etc, that person, in the eyes of the ls and its members, deserves it. If a person is rich enough to support himself, let him/her. It is their money and thus, their choice to spend it however they see fit. Like I said previously, it's all personal preference. My ls is pursuing relic now, and regardless of who it is, I will support them in reaching that goal. It is the reason we join an LS; to help one another out. Right?

<3

[Mifaco]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

relic club comes to mind, not relic staff.

Next to bottom of the trash is still trash even if it stinks only .1% less.

Get one, then you have a right to call it trash. Try what i've done, as a galka, with my gear and food witht he party that I had, and then you can talk shit.

-edit- sorry for double post.

your gear = shit. sniper rings + sushi LOLOLOLOLOL
your party = stupid for letting you melee
your race = irrelevant

[Eternus]

If a SMN was seriously meleeing in a merit pt I was in as a BRD I would kick them if I was leader or warp on the party. I don't care how much damage you are doing with that staff, I have to pull and put songs on people. I won't be bothered by putting ballads on a SMN and watching out for the other melee so I don't remove their songs with ballad. SMN just won't get ballad if they want to stand that close to the melee. No time for that bullshit in a fast paced merit party. I permad to 60ish with a PLD and had no problems landing ballad on him and not the melee, but that shit doesn't fly in merit parties. I think you have to be seriously retarded to argue in favor for someone upgrading relic staff now that we know about it.

[Sixtail]

Get one, then you have a right to call it trash. Try what i've done, as a galka, with my gear and food witht he party that I had, and then you can talk shit.

Yes. Everyone must get a relic before they can call it trash. Stunning logic!

[Tahngarthor]

[quote=Mifaco]

Again everything in this relic arguement is personal preference. Some like it, some dont. Some will hate, some will praise. So is life. An ls chooses to support someone on their goal, whether or not people like it, means something in a much larger scheme. People dont like it, there is always the door.

It's not personal preference, it's making fun of a retarded person upgrading a retarded relic. It's better to make fun of someone upgrading relic staff (aka the worst relic in the game) than of someone upgrading something useful, like Aegis.

relic club comes to mind, not relic staff.

Next to bottom of the trash is still trash even if it stinks only .1% less.

Get one, then you have a right to call it trash. Try what i've done, as a galka, with my gear and food witht he party that I had, and then you can talk shit.

-edit- sorry for double post.

your gear = shit. sniper rings + sushi LOLOLOLOLOL
your party = stupid for letting you melee
your race = irrelevant[/quote:ebfd2]

The let me because it worked. K THX BAI.

Yes. Everyone must get a relic before they can call it trash. Stunning logic!

You're damn right it is. Unless you've experienced something for yourself you have no right to make that judgement. Anything you say on it is just an uninformed opinion or guess.

[Ichthyos]

If a SMN was seriously meleeing in a merit pt I was in as a BRD I would kick them if I was leader or warp on the party. I don't care how much damage you are doing with that staff, I have to pull and put songs on people. I won't be bothered by putting ballads on a SMN and watching out for the other melee so I don't remove their songs with ballad. SMN just won't get ballad if they want to stand that close to the melee. No time for that bullshit in a fast paced merit party. I permad to 60ish with a PLD and had no problems landing ballad on him and not the melee, but that shit doesn't fly in merit parties. I think you have to be seriously retarded to argue in favor for someone upgrading relic staff now that we know about it.

The point is that a SMN with Claustrum doesn't need ballads to stay near full MP with SA+Spirit Taker while their pet does good melee damage and BPs.

[epigram]

The whole issue isn't if someone should or shouldn't choose to upgrade a relic staff. It is the self proclaimed reasons why a person who is upgrading a relic staff is.

All the "attacks" are against faults in the belief that having a relic staff would make melee'ing as smn effective. The point that many of us have addressed is that having a relic staff would not make smn melee effective due to the nature of burns, and the mp return on spirit taker.

Thief dmg was also used to claim that smn dmg wasn't that bad, but it was pointed out that theifs do a fair bit more dmg, and a war/nin or mnk/war would rip appart any damage contribution that a smn could make.

If you want to be a melee smn that's fine, but your damage and performance would be very poor, and having relic won't make it much better. If you upgrade relic with this attitude then your just going to quit the moment you get it and waste all your coins.

I'm upgrading relic axe, I'm 4k tuku from being done with it. I know the ws isn't going to be so hot, but it's the best axe I can get and I use bst whenever I can. I'm not in the hnmls scene, and I haven't fought a ground king since around August 04. Most of my coins are straight from bazaars and I am not really getting any free coins from ls's. Will relic axe make me uber? Nope.

I don't walk in with false expectations like a billion dmg, I don't even think that it will be all that big of an improvement, but it is a fantastic challenge. The bottom line is if you think a relic will radically change the way you play you might as well quit now and not be disapointed.

[Not Kuno]

Your first problem was inviting a SMN in a merit pt. Friends dont let friends merit on SMN.

[ponskun]

Man, thank god this relic staff issue is only related to SMN's. BLM's are safe.....