Claustrum / Gate of Tartarus WS Testing

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

place bets now on how long till she quits

Unlike a lot of relic upgraders, she didn't have unrealistic expectations that the weapon would revolutionize the way she played the game. The relic holders I know of on Titan who quit shortly after they finished were NINs thinking Kikoku would magically make them outparse everyone else or something.

The kikoku always made me laugh when people think its going to be that good. Obviously when you are not dual wielding you'll get the best results from it. The gap is that big. NIN's power is dual wielding, so kikoku is essentially half as good as, say, apocalypse. Add in the fact that there are already decent weapons for NIN and its kikoku is just not a good choice.

[Ichthyos]

she has a lvl 5 relic for a job that she hasn't finished the relic set?

pretty ridiculous

Titan's actually a little backwards when it comes to Dynamis. The Dynamis community is pretty fragmented--there are many small shells that only do city rotations, and there's only one NA Dynamis shell that has beaten DL (and one HNM LS that beat him 2-3 times this year). There are only a couple of shadow items on NA's, and plenty of people who have been doing Dynamis once a week since mid 2004 without having full relic set yet just because of bad luck on a certain piece.

[½pint]

place bets now on how long till she quits

Unlike a lot of relic upgraders, she didn't have unrealistic expectations that the weapon would revolutionize the way she played the game. The relic holders I know of on Titan who quit shortly after they finished were NINs thinking Kikoku would magically make them outparse everyone else or something.

The kikoku always made me laugh when people think its going to be that good. Obviously when you are not dual wielding you'll get the best results from it. The gap is that big. NIN's power is dual wielding, so kikoku is essentially half as good as, say, apocalypse. Add in the fact that there are already decent weapons for NIN and its kikoku is just not a good choice.

Did you just imply that DRK is good?
/wrists

[Tom Chambers]

ahahahahaha

congratulations on a waste of dynamis currency. i wonder what her dynamis shell was thinking, knowing that their currency was going toward a toy

Probably thinking they were all playing a videogame.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

place bets now on how long till she quits

Unlike a lot of relic upgraders, she didn't have unrealistic expectations that the weapon would revolutionize the way she played the game. The relic holders I know of on Titan who quit shortly after they finished were NINs thinking Kikoku would magically make them outparse everyone else or something.

The kikoku always made me laugh when people think its going to be that good. Obviously when you are not dual wielding you'll get the best results from it. The gap is that big. NIN's power is dual wielding, so kikoku is essentially half as good as, say, apocalypse. Add in the fact that there are already decent weapons for NIN and its kikoku is just not a good choice.

Did you just imply that DRK is good?
/wrists

Just that apocalypse is better than kikoku. For that matter gugnir is better as well (though I've seen NO data from gugnir and a good amount 1st hand from apoc.)

[Lockecole]

place bets now on how long till she quits

Unlike a lot of relic upgraders, she didn't have unrealistic expectations that the weapon would revolutionize the way she played the game. The relic holders I know of on Titan who quit shortly after they finished were NINs thinking Kikoku would magically make them outparse everyone else or something.

The kikoku always made me laugh when people think its going to be that good. Obviously when you are not dual wielding you'll get the best results from it. The gap is that big. NIN's power is dual wielding, so kikoku is essentially half as good as, say, apocalypse. Add in the fact that there are already decent weapons for NIN and its kikoku is just not a good choice.

That's one way of looking at it, I look at it as, if its better then ANYOTHER option the job has, then its not a waste. Regardless its still the best the job can have, 5/6damage and 20 att more then the most used katanas there are. And for no reason Im gonna list my opinions of all of the Relic weapons.

Guttler- [Garbage] Lol...sure give BST a better axe so they have to engage 10 seconds later.
Excalibur- [Garbage] Nice DD capability, but on a RDM or PLD? who cares.
Mjollnir- [Garbage] Seen it in action on a WHM...regardless it's still a WHM with a weapon, horrible damage. Sup 400 Hexastrikes on Imps.
Mandau- [Good] As much as I wanna trash THFs, they're still used alot in SCs, and can contribute to alot of damage. Ontop of that the Poison proc is a godsend, if it procs on stuff like Bahamut 2, Cerberus, and basically any wyrm.
Bravura- [Garbage] Horrible SC properties. Spend your time in the Aery, you'll be alot happier with the drop.
Amanomurakumo- [Garbage] Buy Hagun...lol ok not really, if anything for the double light SC and bonus on MB damage Id get one. But regardless I really think Hagun would outparse it on WSes.
Ragnarok- [Worst of the worst] Don't really need to explain this. The fact that a PLD got the first one explains alot.
Kikoku- [Good] I really think its a nice thing to have, especially if you have NIN tanking a semi-hard HNM with Katanas.(Faf/Cerb) Paralyze can be hard to proc on alot of HNMs, so if it procced consistantly, it would be worth it. Ontop of that it's still the best option for a NINs main weapon.
Claustrum- [Garbage] Regardless of what this topic states, its a junk WS, with a junk add-effect property, on a job which shouldnt be meleeing in 95% of its situations. Soloing will never justify a Relics cost. Hey lemme farm spiders for months to get all the gil back I paid for something so I can farm spiders. Circular reasoning anyone?
Apocalypse [Not bad] Use Ridill. Ok maybe not, I think a DRK/WAR could actually parse pretty well with it, but he'd die. A DRK/NIN could probably parse better with Axe/Ridill or Sword/Ridill. So I dunno, its a fucking nice scythe, but I still think its a waste.
Gungnir [lolDRG]
Spharai [Not bad] Blame Destroyers for being free and absolutely amazing for the bad rep on these. I kinda wish Destroyers never existed, I'd put this up as probably one of the best relics there is. Unfortunately the parsing in comparison to them is hardly impressive, and Final Heaven is junk.
Yoichinoyumi/Annihilator [Good] I'm still one of the few believers that a good RNG, is still just that...even after patch. Yes they're not as broken, but put any of these two in their hands, and you can drop rediculous burst damage on mobs like Dynamis Lord/KV, etc.

And to sumarize, no, I dont think necessarily any of these are a waste of the players time if they obtain it. Just stating that as far as usefulness goes, some are lacking more then others. More power to anyone who obtains any of the above, it's still a nice thing to have. I just hope you didnt waste 50 people's lives getting something that could have been put to better use.

[Vinen]

she has a lvl 5 relic for a job that she hasn't finished the relic set?

pretty ridiculous

Titan's actually a little backwards when it comes to Dynamis. The Dynamis community is pretty fragmented--there are many small shells that only do city rotations, and there's only one NA Dynamis shell that has beaten DL (and one HNM LS that beat him 2-3 times this year). There are only a couple of shadow items on NA's, and plenty of people who have been doing Dynamis once a week since mid 2004 without having full relic set yet just because of bad luck on a certain piece.

Yeah, and pretty much every NA attestation (Almost all!, few were not) has came from same source.

MuzeDynamis or Karasu Internal Dynamis... which formed when MuzeDynamis split.

[NynJa]

she has a lvl 5 relic for a job that she hasn't finished the relic set?

pretty ridiculous

I'm 1600 bynes away from Mandau, and as long as those niggers in Osiris keep thinking they own Gilgamesh and do whatever dynamis area they choose without regard to other LS's schedules, I'll have a lv5 relic without full AF2 of said job.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Apocalypse [Not bad] Use Ridill. Ok maybe not, I think a DRK/WAR could actually parse pretty well with it, but he'd die. A DRK/NIN could probably parse better with Axe/Ridill or Sword/Ridill. So I dunno, its a fucking nice scythe, but I still think its a waste.
Gungnir [lolDRG]

I've seen (as I've said before) a DRK/THF outparse a MNK/WAR (BB great gear) in a mire party with apocalypse. And he wouldnt die at all, Catastrophe gains an additional effect where you recover HP based on damage dealt (amount varies though.) Also the health drained from souleater is lowered with apoc. And he was tied with a MNK/NIN (also with BB and great gear) with axe/ridill.
Apoc.Is.Fucking.Nuts.
The other one I saw was kikoku and it wasn't impressive.

Gugnir might make DRG good honestly. One of their issues is shit weapons and shit WSes. I've seen no data (people instantly write off DRG) but its possible to make DRG damn powerful.

[Sixtail]

I'm a full time SMN and I agree, this thing is trash. I'd rather have a B.Staff.

[NynJa]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

[Souj]

Amanomurakumo- [Garbage] Buy Hagun...lol ok not really, if anything for the double light SC and bonus on MB damage Id get one. But regardless I really think Hagun would outparse it on WSes.

Hagun is best only when you dont plan on getting past 199tp to ws.
cant say ive ever seen relic Gk in action.. but 11more dmg for the melee damage might make up for the damage u get from tp bonus.
for 300%tp it would outdamage Hagun for sure. Shinsoku, I'm not so sure.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

It does that too. Apocalypse has a bunch of hidden shit.

[Twolves]

Doesn't the GK ws have better ws mods at 100% tp than any other great katana ws at 300?

[Not Kuno]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

It does that too. Apocalypse has a bunch of hidden shit.

All weapons have 2 effects. One it says on the weapon and another that kicks in with the WS. Apoc gives hp drain on the weapon and hastes you when you WS. Like the staff for example does dispel (lol) and refresh on the ws. Sword does +dmg based on hp on the weapon and a terrible regen on the ws etc.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

It does that too. Apocalypse has a bunch of hidden shit.

All weapons have 2 effects. One it says on the weapon and another that kicks in with the WS. Apoc gives hp drain on the weapon and hastes you when you WS. Like the staff for example does dispel (lol) and refresh on the ws. Sword does +dmg based on hp on the weapon and a terrible regen on the ws etc.

I know. Heres a list of apoc's effects:
High demage
Acc+20
Additional Effect: Blindness
Occasional triple damage
Reduces HP drained for souleater (maintains same damage increase though)

Catastrophe effects:
Damn good damage
Haste
Recovers HP after WS (on apoc only, not on the bec de faucon lvl 4 scythe in dynamis)
Goes through shadows

[Chupunpupun]

Bravura- [Garbage] Horrible SC properties. Spend your time in the Aery, you'll be alot happier with the drop.

Metatron Torment is fusion/light, i believe. What is wrong with being able to open and end light?? Would it being Distortion or Gravitation make it better???

[nivlakian]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

It does that too. Apocalypse has a bunch of hidden shit.

All weapons have 2 effects. One it says on the weapon and another that kicks in with the WS. Apoc gives hp drain on the weapon and hastes you when you WS. Like the staff for example does dispel (lol) and refresh on the ws. Sword does +dmg based on hp on the weapon and a terrible regen on the ws etc.

I'm not sure if that's a typo or if you're mistaken, but Apoc's HP drain is also on the WS (blindness on the weapon) as Joee mentioned above. So, Apoc has more than 2 effects.

[Lockecole]

Yeah my bad on the Metatron Torment thing, was purely thinking of Steel Cyclone.

And I agree Apocalypse is amazing, probably about the only thing I'd change on my list, now that I think about it. Can't wait till our resident DRK finally HQs his E.Body so he can start Apoc back up again.

And as far as Hagun vs. Relic, when would you ever WS past 200% unless you were forced to. Even during 2hour, Hagun would probably end up being better, considering you'd get a 300%, 300% and a 200% WS.

[aurik]

ummmmm........I thought Apocalypse gives you haste ?

It does that too. Apocalypse has a bunch of hidden shit.

All weapons have 2 effects. One it says on the weapon and another that kicks in with the WS. Apoc gives hp drain on the weapon and hastes you when you WS. Like the staff for example does dispel (lol) and refresh on the ws. Sword does +dmg based on hp on the weapon and a terrible regen on the ws etc.

I know. Heres a list of apoc's effects:
High demage
Acc+20
Additional Effect: Blindness
Occasional triple damage
Reduces HP drained for souleater (maintains same damage increase though)

Catastrophe effects:
Damn good damage
Haste
Recovers HP after WS (on apoc only, not on the bec de faucon lvl 4 scythe in dynamis)
Goes through shadows

Can you show the shadow thing to be true? It sounds like an old wives' tail to me.