Claustrum / Gate of Tartarus WS Testing

[Eaglestrike]

Derail: my bst friend spent 4-5 hours farming ingredients and then spent 90k getting me to synth him some diremite jugs. 1 hq of 6 synths with 104 cooking, for 30 minutes of lars fun.

SE hates BST. Discuss.

QFT!

Semi-topic:

I have a 75 Smn toon, and I have almost no merits on him(10 atm), while on my main char I have well over 100 merits (lost count more like 200 now), and though I would love to merit my smn some more, I know, like Kuno, that Smn has no place in a merit party (unless its a smn party in krt, or duo with another smn in Garden on Euvhis). I hate when merit parties are slow (under 12k/hr, prefer 15k/hr+) and a smn cannot contribute as much as a whm or a rdm or a second brd can, so I would not put anyone to the torture of slow exp, and if you think you are actually contributing to your party, you are delusional, goddamn lucky we are not on the same server, as you would be kicked midfight on the first pull.

hate it when parties are under 12k an hour? I've never even watched someone else get 12k an hour (except for the hour with the EXp ring), much less seen it myself. Your standards are ridiculous? only your apparent elitist static could attain that.
I've spent roughly 50 merit points and ive worked hard for every one of em.

I've seen 12k/hour plenty of times and I'm a thief. Hell I got over 50k exp on Monday in less than 4 hours out exping.

[Septimus]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...trainWreck.jpg

I missed the forums when they were down...

[aurik]

OJ: It's probably faster to level brd to 75 and merit x100 on your second toon than it is to merit x100 on your already-75 smn.

[Jeryhn]

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

Let's take, for instance, your definition of a TP Burn party.
They do not need Cure or Haste? A party with any less than 4 people who regularly use their TP is not considered a TP burn?

Also, a SMN with a Claustrum will magically get into one of these TP Burns?

I'm sorry you worked for all your 50 merits real hard. I worked hard getting all my SMN (My first job no less) merits on RDM too. There is no additional "accomplishment" in getting your merits for SMN on SMN.

[Rocl]

nobody cares about this part

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

All i've seen you do is flame, and critiizce my very existence. You havent said anything meaningful, or worth discussing.

[Tahngarthor]

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

Let's take, for instance, your definition of a TP Burn party.
They do not need Cure or Haste? A party with any less than 4 people who regularly use their TP is not considered a TP burn?

Also, a SMN with a Claustrum will magically get into one of these TP Burns.

I'm sorry you worked for all your 50 merits real hard. I worked hard getting all my SMN (My first job no less) merits on RDM too. There is no additional "accomplishment" in getting your merits for SMN on SMN.

The bard was doing that in the party I observed (Once, I observed a RDM/BRD though i'm not seaying I think thats a great idea). I didnt say anything about joining any old "TP burn"- This is most effective in certain places and cases. I'll buy 4 DD heavy melee, rdm, brd as a TP burn. but 3 melee and 3 mages? that's just "normal."

nobody cares about this part

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

All i've seen you do is flame, and critiizce my very existence. You havent said anything meaningful, or worth discussing.

Are we not allowed to make typos? I'm sure you've never made any.

[Rocl]

The rate at which you make them causes me to question the validity of your arguement.

[Tahngarthor]

The rate at which you make them causes me to question the validity of your arguement.

Well, that is stupid. Often I notice them and go back and edit them. Just because i'm not writing a term paper means my arguments aren't valid? Being clumsy with a keyboard is not a matter of intelligence.

[Rocl]

DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING? SPELLING IS EVERYTHING.
If I drive by a billboard and see it says "Drink Cock" as opposed to "Drink Coke" WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?

[Jeryhn]

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

Let's take, for instance, your definition of a TP Burn party.
They do not need Cure or Haste? A party with any less than 4 people who regularly use their TP is not considered a TP burn?

Also, a SMN with a Claustrum will magically get into one of these TP Burns.

I'm sorry you worked for all your 50 merits real hard. I worked hard getting all my SMN (My first job no less) merits on RDM too. There is no additional "accomplishment" in getting your merits for SMN on SMN.

The bard was doing that in the party I observed (Once, I observed a RDM/BRD though i'm not seaying I think thats a great idea). I didnt say anything about joining any old "TP burn"- This is most effective in certain places and cases. I'll buy 4 DD heavy melee, rdm, brd as a TP burn. but 3 melee and 3 mages? that's just "normal."

No a TP Burn party is categorized as a party that gets maximum EXP through minimum expense of resources (MP) through the use of multiple Utsusemi tanks and frequent use of TP skills. Since the expenditure of resources (MP) so so low compared to a standard party, one person can accept more roles in a party (such as an RDM becoming healing/enfeebling/support and a BRD becoming support/puller) allowing for more damage dealing roles through both spike and DoT in the party, leading to faster kills and endless chaining.

A "normal party" is considered one tank, one healer, one support, 3 DD.
In this type of a party, each person has established roles. Example, the one tank must keep hate off of everyone, including the three DDs, not matter what their job. because you only have one "established" tank, the DDs cannot go balls-out, and set up skillchains for their method of dealing lots of spike damage. In this type of a party, resources are typically expended faster due to the constant need to keep one person alive.

There's a clear-cut difference between a normal party and a TP Burn party, and its certainly not whether or not you have 3 or 4 Front Line Jobs in your current party.

[Not Kuno]

DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING? SPELLING IS EVERYTHING.
If I drive by a billboard and see it says "Drink Cock" as opposed to "Drink Coke" WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?

Clearly chicken flavored carbonated drinks are superior to whatever you had in mind.

[Tahngarthor]

DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING? SPELLING IS EVERYTHING.
If I drive by a billboard and see it says "Drink Cock" as opposed to "Drink Coke" WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?

Well, not all grammar mistakes would result in something so amusing.

[aurik]

The rate at which you make them causes me to question the validity of your arguement.

Well, that is stupid. Often I notice them and go back and edit them. Just because i'm not writing a term paper means my arguments aren't valid? Being clumsy with a keyboard is not a matter of intelligence.

No your arguments aren't valid because they don't make sense. You STILL haven't explained where your magical BP mana comes from.

[FFXIFlux]

Healing - Cure 3 sucks. Heals too slow/not very much and gasp sometimes things go wrong and someone needs alot of curing. Healing ruby 2 is nice but thats alot of MP and its a BP.

For most XP parties Cure 3 is fine. Typically you'll have a RDM anyway.

Support - Can't sleep. Can't refresh. Can't haste. Can't dispel. Ok well they can haste but its like 90 seconds, a ton of mp, and is a BP. Same with dispel and sleep, way to waste your BP and be useless.

SMN do get 2 sleep BP actually, not to mention if it's just a single add, which is typical in XP, the avatar can tank it. Everything else you said though, including healing... guess what, it applies to BLM too. BLM don't get esuna, group accuracy up, group stoneskin, agroless cureaga etc. etc. either.

Damage - 70 BPs are strong. Really strong. 1k every minute is nice. HOWEVER unlike a melee who can do really high dmg using only TP, your MP gets fucked in the butt. You can try to rest, but you only get 1 tick of MP before you have to do BP, assuming you time it perfectly. Or else you don't BP every minute and spend your time resting. A melee gets TP by doing damage, and then using that TP for even more dmg. A smn does damage then crawls away for a while resting to get it all back.

First off if you're only getting 1 tick of MP from sitting after a bloodpact then you're doing pacts in under 30 seconds. You'll get 3+ if you do 1 per minute, which will more than pay for the pact.

Second, doing 1k damage/minute with 164 MP doesn't suck. SMN aren't meleers, so why are you comparing them to one, particularly when you're expecting them to heal and do support things at the same time? Compare the damage to a BLM and it's not that bad. I'm not saying busting out a staff and whacking a mob even if you have the MP is the best idea all the time, but it'll work in some situations.

I fail to see how someone hitting something for low amounts of damage instead of curing/supporting/doing damage, on a job that cant even do any of those all to well is justified.

On BLU I think I started eating meat, without madrigal, on puks well before level 70. I'm pretty sure a level 75 SMN could whack them like a pinata.

[thestalkmore]

The rate at which you make them causes me to question the validity of your arguement.

Well, that is stupid. Often I notice them and go back and edit them. Just because i'm not writing a term paper means my arguments aren't valid? Being clumsy with a keyboard tends to demonstrate a lack of intelligence

Edited for accuracy.

[Raineer]

Second, doing 1k damage/minute with 164 MP doesn't suck. SMN aren't meleers, so why are you comparing them to one, particularly when you're expecting them to heal and do support things at the same time? Compare the damage to a BLM and it's not that bad. I'm not saying busting out a staff and whacking a mob even if you have the MP is the best idea all the time, but it'll work in some situations.

You should read more of the thread you are posting in.

[Tahngarthor]

What elase is there to say in rebuttal? you havent said anything intelligent to rebuke. I dont need to convince you, there are plenty of other people who will realize i'm not tottally full of shit.

Let's take, for instance, your definition of a TP Burn party.
They do not need Cure or Haste? A party with any less than 4 people who regularly use their TP is not considered a TP burn?

Also, a SMN with a Claustrum will magically get into one of these TP Burns.

I'm sorry you worked for all your 50 merits real hard. I worked hard getting all my SMN (My first job no less) merits on RDM too. There is no additional "accomplishment" in getting your merits for SMN on SMN.

The bard was doing that in the party I observed (Once, I observed a RDM/BRD though i'm not seaying I think thats a great idea). I didnt say anything about joining any old "TP burn"- This is most effective in certain places and cases. I'll buy 4 DD heavy melee, rdm, brd as a TP burn. but 3 melee and 3 mages? that's just "normal."

No a TP Burn party is categorized as a party that gets maximum EXP through minimum expense of resources (MP) through the use of multiple Utsusemi tanks and frequent use of TP skills. Since the expenditure of resources (MP) so so low compared to a standard party, one person can accept more roles in a party (such as an RDM becoming healing/enfeebling/support and a BRD becoming support/puller) allowing for more damage dealing roles through both spike and DoT in the party, leading to faster kills and endless chaining.

A "normal party" is considered one tank, one healer, one support, 3 DD.
In this type of a party, each person has established roles. Example, the one tank must keep hate off of everyone, including the three DDs, not matter what their job. because you only have one "established" tank, the DDs cannot go balls-out, and set up skillchains for their method of dealing lots of spike damage. In this type of a party, resources are typically expended faster due to the constant need to keep one person alive.

There's a clear-cut difference between a normal party and a TP Burn party, and its certainly not whether or not you have 3 or 4 Front Line Jobs in your current party.

I appriciate the more thoughtful post.

Couldnt find your definition in the dicitonary(Just a little jab there). And to me, a normal party consists of 3 frontline jobs and 3 backline jobs (frontline being tank and heavy DD.) Everyone has their own idea, you dont need to impress me by dressing it up with the language you're using. I know what a "TP burn" is for. And you dont need to tell me that normal parties are not ideal, either. Some people will settle for less, as it's better than nothing. You are right, but I'm just being broad while you are being very specific (nothing wrong with that).

I just wanted to share my one experience of not totally sucking with a different way of playing my job in certain cases. It CAN work in the places i've given. And it wont blow you away, but you might at least think "Wow, thats nothing amazing, but i'm suprised a smn could do that much damage")

(such as an RDM becoming healing/enfeebling/support

Uh, isn't that what an RDM normally does? I could be mistaken but I was pretty sure that was an RDM's normal role in an exp party.

[cassiraa]

DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING? SPELLING IS EVERYTHING.
If I drive by a billboard and see it says "Drink Cock" as opposed to "Drink Coke" WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DRINK?

Little late on the reply, but this edit amused me <.<

[Tahngarthor]

The rate at which you make them causes me to question the validity of your arguement.

Well, that is stupid. Often I notice them and go back and edit them. Just because i'm not writing a term paper means my arguments aren't valid? Being clumsy with a keyboard tends to not demonstrate anything

Edited for accuracy.

Edited for better accuracy.

[Jeryhn]

And to me, a normal party consists of 3 frontline jobs and 3 backline jobs (frontline being tank and heavy DD.)

Here lies your first mistake. It's not always about you.

As an additional point, this is also why a summoner thinking they are contributing to a party by meleeing doesn't work for other people. You have a given role - accept it.

I know what a "TP burn" is for. And you dont need to tell me that normal parties are not ideal, either. Some people will settle for less, as it's better than nothing.

And some people have been playing this game for so long, they no longer want to deal with the less-than-ideal, and even moreso when its intentional. So you can shove your repeated use of the word "elistist" up your ass.

Seriously, you wonder why people flame you. It's not about the Claustrum, as we've established that if someone is doing it on their own with no help aside from the Attestation and Fragment, they're free to do as they please. More power to you to getting that Claustrum finished, but I'll be fucked if you're gonna be getting in my party for that reason.

Uh, isn't that what an RDM normally does? I could be mistaken but I was pretty sure that was an RDM's normal role in an exp party.

An RDM can play numerous roles in a party. They can be a full healer, support or nuker. However, they can't play numerous roles unless there's another way damage is being mitigated, and this is achieved by having either another person in the party healing, or by not taking a lot of damage at all (ideal).