New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

[epigram]

Most blms can be replaced with a drk/nin with k-club, ridill, or mercurial kriss. I see drk/nin moving in to a lot of vacant slots if the nerf is quite bad. At least for blms you will at least obtain some degree of supperiority amongst your peers by being intelligent enough to bring some +elemental gear and scale mab/elemental items accordingly with resist rates.

At least your not a bst, where our nerf only lead to the increase in ineptitude of the class by taking away the vast majority of challenging exp spots. The result was an increase in retarded PT bsts and those who were previously too stupid to not aggro their own released pets or set up recovery trains... Hell, everyone loved it when a beast entered CN and charmed the soldier crawler among the 4000 workers trained to zone.

~ rocl/wafik

[Delekii]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

Im hoping (and thinking) the same thing - if it is a "lower damage" resistence badly worded, rather than an actual increase in resist rate, it will be ok (as long as it doesnt go too far - and they did specify that each mob would have a cap to how high the resistance would go). In the end, it could go either way - it could end up balancing the game out, or go completely the other way.

In one corner, you have the slightly lowered usefulness of the BLMs who can still do great damage with appropriate situations, where they still remain primary damage dealers (as they have almost no other point beyond stun rotations).

In the other, you have a fully screwed up situation, where the mob increases to half or even more resistance (damage OR resist rate) with very few nukes, and responce time to recover from said resistance is in the minutes rather than in the seconds. I mean, almost everything can be beaten by meleeing it to death given enough time, but while I am all for challenges, we already spend 3 hours a day in the pit - id prefer not to spend another hour every day so the drgs get a chance to stick their spears up his arse.

While I am sort of glad of the change on one hand, even though I would have to say my main job is BLM, I am at least a little scared that they will go ranger on our arse.

[SephYuyX]

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

There's a layer of strategy beyond that... people seem to be forgetting that building hate while tanking will also build magic resistance as well. Flash is divine magic. Every ninjitsu ability is covered. Even spirits is on the list. Now it really becomes an issue of balance between mages and melee. Having multiple tanks actively trying to build hate fast will result in heavy magic resist.

As mentioned above, no one is sure if all the magic will build the total resistance, or if each individual section (blm, smn, pld, nin) will have their own seperate resostance.

[Zalius]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

I'm really starting to hate people that think resists and 50% damage is the same thing. A resist = 10%~ dmg or less, full resist at least.

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates. This is why there's a problem. If they rng it, basically a BLM would be casting for 60~200 on most of their spells, essentially making them wastes of space

[Delekii]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

I'm really starting to hate people that think resists and 50% damage is the same thing. A resist = 10%~ dmg or less, full resist at least.

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates. This is why there's a problem. If they rng it, basically a BLM would be casting for 60~200 on most of their spells, essentially making them wastes of space

Faranim knows the difference between resist rates and damage.


SE is notoriously bad at making badly worded press releases, and releasing badly worded translations. Resistance could very easily mean damage, or it could mean resistance as you think of it.


Like he said in his post, when they changed the "resist" rate on sleep and lullaby in ballista, it didnt mean the rate the song is resisted - you can land lullaby as consistanty on first time as on 500th time in ballista. But, the song lasts lower and lower length each time.

By the same token, when they specifically changed gravity, the comment was that mobs would build "resistance" to gravity. They do not resist gravity more often, but it lasts less and less time.

Resistance does not necessarily mean resistance as it is in the game.

[SephYuyX]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

I'm really starting to hate people that think resists and 50% damage is the same thing. A resist = 10%~ dmg or less, full resist at least.

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates. This is why there's a problem. If they rng it, basically a BLM would be casting for 60~200 on most of their spells, essentially making them wastes of space

When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease in accordance with that monster's resistance. At the same time, its resistance will increase.

[Dustybrown]

Let's wait til Monday before we condemn them for not making changes... it seems to me like those changes might be implemented in this patch.

I just find it funny they haven't said anything about job improvements yet. If they were going to introduce them, it would seem likely SE would mention it in this update. "We've done this that will hurt BLM but THIS will make it better". They're doing this for all the people that complain that BLM have an unfair advantage over melee on HNM. So say: "we're addressing this with BLM, plus, for Melee, we're adding the following." To do an update that we know will somehow nerf BLM and then implement positive changes for melee without bothering to post about it on their official site is just bad PR. That's why I think they won't be adding new content to improve jobs.

They're so going to post about Melee improvements tomorrow and prove me wrong, just like the bastards waited til I got a small manaburn group for NW apollyon then nerfed BLM.

Bastards.

[Raineer]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

I'm really starting to hate people that think resists and 50% damage is the same thing. A resist = 10%~ dmg or less, full resist at least.

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates. This is why there's a problem. If they rng it, basically a BLM would be casting for 60~200 on most of their spells, essentially making them wastes of space

When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease in accordance with that monster's resistance. At the same time, its resistance will increase.

I don't care what the patch notes say. SE are fucking ignorant about the game they wrote.

Watch this actually mean "all HNM's now have reflect lawl". Oh yeah and Rampage is nerfed, it's in the fine print.

[Zalius]

I'm reasonably sure this is a "MDB" type of resistance.

Take, for example, the changes made to Sleep/Lullaby in Ballista. They said that players gradually increase resistance. What actually happened was you could always land Sleep/Lullaby, but the duration got shorter and shorter each time, until it would last for like 2 seconds.

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

The CoP Wyrms and other NMs already have an innate 50% resistance rate. Chi Blast and Nukes deal 50% of their "usual" damage to these mobs. It's possible that, through continuous nuking, this can drop even lower down to 25%. Fafnir would still be a joke even if all BLM nukes did 50% of their current damage, but it certainly would make melee damage look a lot more viable.

I think this is a great change because it will (hopefully) thwart the BLM Manaburn Armies but still allow HNMLS with half a brain to make a Skillchain + MB strategy that works well.

Making KB, Aspid, and Faf/Nid stronger is a good thing, because if people can't kill them they'll stop camping. I kind of wish they'd make Faf/Nid Unsleepable, because then 95% of the people who try to fight him would wipe (at least on Seraph, lol)

I'm really starting to hate people that think resists and 50% damage is the same thing. A resist = 10%~ dmg or less, full resist at least.

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates. This is why there's a problem. If they rng it, basically a BLM would be casting for 60~200 on most of their spells, essentially making them wastes of space

When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease in accordance with that monster's resistance. At the same time, its resistance will increase.

I never said anything about there not being a damage reduction, the resistance is the problem.




did you believe me or not <_<;

[Faranim]

I thought we're getting merit upgrades with this patch too?

Supposedly they were adding spells/abilities that you could "learn" with merit points (Magic Bloodpacts that don't suck?). Not much has been said about this, but "Merit Upgrades" is listed on the official timeline for this update.

As always, we just have to wait and see after the patch is out.

Edit: There is a difference between "Resistance" and "being Resisted."

Resistance refers to a monsters Flat-Out "Magic Damage gets cut by XX%". Lots of mobs have resistance, Arcana (Pots, Weapons) have a small amount of Resistance, CoP Wyrms have 50% Resistance, Jailer of Temperance has 100% Resistance.

Being Resisted is a result of having inadequate elemental (or whatever) skill, but also takes other factors into account (enemy Level and MND, some sort of randomness). They likely would have worded it differently if "a players chance of being resisted would increase as more spells are cast."

[Nagamaki]

Considering they list Spirits Within and Chi Blast as being affected, the effect basically has to be MDB buildup and not actual resist buildup, the same way wyrm sleep resistance buildup or gravity resistance really means shortened duration when it lands and not resistance like the spell just having no effect (example, a noob LS chainspell sleeps Faf and wipes, some other LS gets it, ES Sleep II and it wakes up before log shows it falling asleep).

Spirits and Chi aren't like spells with resist tiers of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8..., they just plain do their damage (or do flat 10% on dynamis icons/eyes, 50% on wyrms..) You could call the damage variation from 5x to 10x on Chi "resist" but its not really accurate since a Wild Rabbit will take 5x just as often as Kirin will, so it obviously has nothing to do with level or stats. Spirits Within being resisted in the sense of doing half damage sometimes seems rather unlikely, I guess its not impossible that they'd make the resist work differently for different sources but that announcement pretty much lumps it all together. How quickly the effect decreases will be a major key in how much this changes anything, its impossible to tell yet.

[Julian]

The Update seems to specify that it effects only spells that deal damage. Nukes, Banish, Holy, Elemental Ninjutsu, Magical Bloodpacts (lol), Magical WS. I don't think that Sleep, Stun, or Debuffs would be affected.

Reading this made me realize, if they ever add the final magic abilities to avatars that the primes use, they'll be nerfed before we even get them. Not like they would have been better than the 70pacts anyway.

[Delekii]

They didn't say they were nerfing damage given, they said resist rates.

When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease

I never said anything about there not being a damage reduction,

anyway, is this update this coming monday?

why is the update always the day i go back to uni, or the day before my final exam, or something equally as annoying -_-

I guess its good, gives me something to take my mind off the fact that they broke windower AGAIN.

[Tahngarthor]

Dont forget it also says the resistance will go back down after no magic is used for a period of time. they claim (but are we supposed to believe) that a strategy involving only a few BLMs and not a shit ton will not see much difference.
Judging by the discussion I see here, it looks like no one buys that.
(why is mijin gakure in that list? Let's get 18 ninjas and have them all blow up! omgz l33tzorz!)

[Siatdiat]

Blms should work on their relic weapons now so they can melee more.

lawl.

[Jeryhn]

Judging by the discussion I see here, it looks like no one buys that.
(why is mijin gakure in that list? Let's get 18 ninjas and have them all blow up! omgz l33tzorz!)

Because the change emcompasses all magical damage.

I suppose an lolmeleesmn wouldn't know anything about magic damage would he?

The stigma is there, and now judges everything you post. Welcome to BG.

[Siatdiat]

Judging by the discussion I see here, it looks like no one buys that.
(why is mijin gakure in that list? Let's get 18 ninjas and have them all blow up! omgz l33tzorz!)

Because the change emcompasses all magical damage.

I suppose an lolmeleesmn wouldn't know anything about magic damage would he?

The stigma is there, and now judges everything you post. Welcome to BG.

I beat you to it.

[Vedder]

Would it be too far fetched to consider that the magic resistance might vary up & down based on the amount of magic used on the NM?

For example... BLMs 1,2,3,4&5 nuke it really hard for about 3 minutes and notice that resist is starting to build... BLMs rest MP, enfeeb, pick their butt, whatever... for 5 mins and the resist "wears" so they can nuke at full strength again?

Or... do we think that each magic used on the mob will continually build the resist until some sort of threshold is reached where magic becomes useless?


That one statement about 1 or 2 BLMs not being affected just leaves a lot open to inference in my mind.

[Dezso]

Think of the resistances like this: Barelemental spells.

Each time a certain element is casted, the barelemental resistance goes up. After a period of time w/o that element being nuked, the element in the catagory goes down, however if you keep nuking the barelement will go up.

Now, as for Sleep/Stun etc, I don't think they will add to the resist, however I do think they will act as a factor.

Think of the gold fish in Sea (if anyone still goes there). They don't attack if you cast sleep/para/bind etc, but will attack when damage is done.

Hence I don't think the resistance will go up when non-damaging spells are casted, but if it's like the barspell idea, the normal resistance will still remain because there is now a resistance to that form of element.

[Jeryhn]

Would it be too far fetched to consider that the magic resistance might vary up & down based on the amount of magic used on the NM?

Considering the detailed list they posted as to which types of magic damage will be effected by the patch (all of them), instead of just elemental magic, I say its unlikely.

For example... BLMs 1,2,3,4&5 nuke it really hard for about 3 minutes and notice that resist is starting to build... BLMs rest MP, enfeeb, pick their butt, whatever... for 5 mins and the resist "wears" so they can nuke at full strength again?

wtf