Thoughts on Casual vs. Serious Relationships?

[Ligro]

Maybe I am just a cynic, but I do not see much of a reason to expend so much emotional effort into someone with whom you will eventually separate.

thats the most depressing thing I've ever heard wow =(

The truth hurts, baby. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce, the other fifty percent end in death. How many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that that person was cheating on him/her the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag? And how many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that he/she was cheating on that person the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag?

People suck, when you get two of them together there is a fairly high probability that they will suck even more.

smartest man ever.

[Scunsion]

I will find love and guess what I know that one day Veronica and I are gonna to get married on top of a mountain, and there's going to be flutes playing and trombones and flowers and garlands of fresh herbs. And we will dance till the sun rises. And then our children will form a family band. And we will tour the countryside and you won't be invited!!!!

[Krylanna]

Maybe I am just a cynic, but I do not see much of a reason to expend so much emotional effort into someone with whom you will eventually separate.

thats the most depressing thing I've ever heard wow =(

The truth hurts, baby. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce, the other fifty percent end in death. How many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that that person was cheating on him/her the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag? And how many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that he/she was cheating on that person the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag?

People suck, when you get two of them together there is a fairly high probability that they will suck even more.

I'll take those odds. 50/50 is what, 50 times better than any casino?

50% divorce rates happened because we got lazy, among other reasons. Way back in the day, when you got married, it took a literal act of god to get out of it alive. Husband beats you, you stay at mom's for a few days while he cools down and then she sends you back to him. If one partner cheated, you *might* be able to get an annullment or divorce. Basically, it really was a "ball and chain." Therefore you had much more incentive to get along.

Today, we have celebrities getting married while drunk and getting annullments the next morning. Divorce and remarriage is common and even accepted by the church to some extent. People regularly live together unmarried because they don't want a wedding yet, or want an easy out if things go sour. The whole attitude about relationships has changed drastically. Like everything in America, you no longer have to work at a relationship. If it doesn't blossom naturally, it's not worth having and you move on to the next person that makes you all starry-eyed. This is wrong. Of course you're going to get into fights and not be in the mood for sex and catch yourself looking at other people. Life isn't perfect. But many times the relationship fails because both partners did not communicate with each other, or failed to compromise on an unimportant issue, or had totally unrealistic expectations for their partner, or couldn't keep their genitals in their pants for five minutes.

If you want a good marriage, act like you want a good marriage, and as long as you find someone else who also wants a good marriage you will probably do very well for yourselves. If you marry someone who is a drama queen (male or female) or play the part yourself it will likely fail.

My uncle has been married something like 6 times to 4 different women. That doesn't say anything about the institution of marriage so much as it says something about my uncle and aunts.

[Talus]

There's definitely advantages to both options. The most important thing is that both people are on the same page and have similar expectations. If one person wants something more serious they end up being perceived as "coming on too strong" for the other person who wants something more casual.

Personally, I prefer casual for a few reasons - I think even in a relationship you still need your personal space, your own friends to do stuff with, just like your s/o does. You had your own lives coming into the relationship so why not have your own lives still since the only change is you share your lives together. This doesn't mean that your interests and friends come before the relationship, since anything worth having usually means you have to work for it, make compromises and sometimes sacrifice what you'd rather be doing to make your s/o happy.

[Nirokun!]

i think people believe "serious" relationships to be all about smothering the other person and loving it lol

you can have your own lives and your own friends, and tell your husband/wife about it when you go home :D just try not to bore them ;P

[Lbelle]

Maybe I am just a cynic, but I do not see much of a reason to expend so much emotional effort into someone with whom you will eventually separate.

thats the most depressing thing I've ever heard wow =(

The truth hurts, baby. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce, the other fifty percent end in death. How many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that that person was cheating on him/her the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag? And how many people do you know that were totally committed to their spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend only to find out that he/she was cheating on that person the whole time or some other sort of total scumbag?

People suck, when you get two of them together there is a fairly high probability that they will suck even more.

I read this and thought of the Colin Firth part in Love Actually and got all girly and upset! What a fucking bitch.

Edit1: To Tape and Almaa: Chill out! Secondly, I always offer to pay whenever I'm on a date, and always get turned down or have the check snatched away from me. I don't know why I'm like that, but I am. When they snatch the check, it's theirs though. When Palin and I (friend from FFXI) went out a few times he always insisted paying, so I told him he had to let me pay the tip. It wasn't much, but atleast I felt like I was doing something

Anyway, holy wow at this becoming 12 pages. That's insane!

[Axil]

wow Septimus fucking owns

[Septimus]

I'll take those odds. 50/50 is what, 50 times better than any casino?

50% divorce rates happened because we got lazy, among other reasons. Way back in the day, when you got married, it took a literal act of god to get out of it alive. Husband beats you, you stay at mom's for a few days while he cools down and then she sends you back to him. If one partner cheated, you *might* be able to get an annullment or divorce. Basically, it really was a "ball and chain." Therefore you had much more incentive to get along.

Today, we have celebrities getting married while drunk and getting annullments the next morning. Divorce and remarriage is common and even accepted by the church to some extent. People regularly live together unmarried because they don't want a wedding yet, or want an easy out if things go sour. The whole attitude about relationships has changed drastically. Like everything in America, you no longer have to work at a relationship. If it doesn't blossom naturally, it's not worth having and you move on to the next person that makes you all starry-eyed. This is wrong. Of course you're going to get into fights and not be in the mood for sex and catch yourself looking at other people. Life isn't perfect. But many times the relationship fails because both partners did not communicate with each other, or failed to compromise on an unimportant issue, or had totally unrealistic expectations for their partner, or couldn't keep their genitals in their pants for five minutes.

If you want a good marriage, act like you want a good marriage, and as long as you find someone else who also wants a good marriage you will probably do very well for yourselves. If you marry someone who is a drama queen (male or female) or play the part yourself it will likely fail.

My uncle has been married something like 6 times to 4 different women. That doesn't say anything about the institution of marriage so much as it says something about my uncle and aunts.

I honestly cannot fathom how people cannot see Divorce as a bad thing. Just because two people get married, it does not mean that they should get married or stay married. A man who hits his wife will not stop; staying at her mother’s house is just a little break in the cycle of violence. Just because she hit the asshole jackpot, there is no reason she should have to put up with that. Same thing with a cheating scumbag. The only incentive was for the person (generally the wife) who was getting hit or cheated on to shut up and put up with it.

I think that the divorce rate is rising because people are starting to realize that conventional marriage is a fairytale that people believe because they have heard it over and over again. I think that the happiness of two people (and their potential children) is far more important than being unhappy together in a dysfunctional relationship because that is how things used to be.

People want to believe in things like "happily ever after" and "there's someone out there for everyone", but these things go against human nature. Humans are not monogamous; this is readily evident in the presence of different physical traits between males and females. (Or just observing behavior.) There is no perfect mate for you in this world, there are however tons of people who have various levels of tolerability for you in a relationship. (Which is much better, because what if your one perfect mate is on the other side of the planet?)

[Anyway]

where's the button for "one night stand onry"

[Manako]

Yeah, fairy tale marriages are just that-- fairy tales. People need to get a grip on reality and understand that their significant other is a person, and therefore has flaws. I would love to find someone to spend the rest of my life with, but statistically that isn't happening. I would much rather have someone to share my life with and depend on that be in a few whimsical relationships, either that or be alone. Emotionally I don't think I could handle a casual relationship.

I don't like the roles that we are supposed to play being a couple or because I am female. To me a boyfriend is like a friend+1, they don't get special treatment because they are your boyfriend, they get special treatment because you both love and respect each other.

[Warudo Ecksu]

I'd be perfectly content with a hot, asian boyfriend, casual or serious, I don't care. I'd be happy

[Shaede]

Many marriages don't work, I believe, because many people are not mentally prepared enough to handle them. A big question I would ask someone is why your marriage can't be a fairy tale?

Those of you who don't believe in fairy tales: what do you think they are based on? Certainly, as a human invention, they are limited to our mental facilities and understandings of our surroundings. You could even say, accurately, that fairly tales are based entirely on reality (which is the limitation of our imagination, as we cannot imagine what we cannot comprehend). Because a fairy tale is a reflection of reality, then why can you not put this into work in reverse and percieve reality as a reflection of a fairy tale?

Recently I've been taking a course in historical geology, which is a simply fascinating topic that deals with a wide range of fantastic phenominon that I had no clue existed before. Who knew scorpians were once about 9 feet long and that they were the first to set foot on land? Could you imagine all the continents in the world merging into one big supercontinent? At least 3 times? Some of this material sounds purely fantastic, but evidence supports its truth.

What is the possibility that a fish evolved a skeletal frame, then limbs, lungs, grew hair, began standing, thinking, and finally was able to instantly send information across the entire planet at a whim in fractions of a second? All evidence supports that it is true, and I'd say it is much more far-fetched than a dragon or a unicorn, which really only resemble a large lizard or a horse with a horn on its head. Reality seems to have a better imagination in the end.

When living in such a fascinating and unbelievable existance, how can you say that it doesn't compare to a fairy tale? I'd say that the fairy tale is rather pale in comparison. Reality isn't stopping you from having a wonderful marriage because it's dry, boring, and predictable. You can make it work out wonderfully, I've seen it many times. It's a lot more likely to have a successful, rewarding, lifelong marriage than most of the stuff that's happened in this allegedly boring reality. And because of the nature of reality itself, I think it can surpass the limited scope of a mere fairy tale.

Sorry for the long post.

[Septimus]

Many marriages don't work, I believe, because many people are not mentally prepared enough to handle them. A big question I would ask someone is why your marriage can't be a fairy tale?

Those of you who don't believe in fairy tales: what do you think they are based on? Certainly, as a human invention, they are limited to our mental facilities and understandings of our surroundings. You could even say, accurately, that fairly tales are based entirely on reality (which is the limitation of our imagination, as we cannot imagine what we cannot comprehend). Because a fairy tale is a reflection of reality, then why can you not put this into work in reverse and percieve reality as a reflection of a fairy tale?

Recently I've been taking a course in historical geology, which is a simply fascinating topic that deals with a wide range of fantastic phenominon that I had no clue existed before. Who knew scorpians were once about 9 feet long and that they were the first to set foot on land? Could you imagine all the continents in the world merging into one big supercontinent? At least 3 times? Some of this material sounds purely fantastic, but evidence supports its truth.

What is the possibility that a fish evolved a skeletal frame, then limbs, lungs, grew hair, began standing, thinking, and finally was able to instantly send information across the entire planet at a whim in fractions of a second? All evidence supports that it is true, and I'd say it is much more far-fetched than a dragon or a unicorn, which really only resemble a large lizard or a horse with a horn on its head. Reality seems to have a better imagination in the end.

When living in such a fascinating and unbelievable existance, how can you say that it doesn't compare to a fairy tale? I'd say that the fairy tale is rather pale in comparison. Reality isn't stopping you from having a wonderful marriage because it's dry, boring, and predictable. You can make it work out wonderfully, I've seen it many times. It's a lot more likely to have a successful, rewarding, lifelong marriage than most of the stuff that's happened in this allegedly boring reality. And because of the nature of reality itself, I think it can surpass the limited scope of a mere fairy tale.

Sorry for the long post.

Yes, the truth is oft times stranger than fiction. We have machines and computers today that would boggle the imagination of visionary writers like HG Wells. But the thing is no matter how strange life may be and how our technology grows, people are inherently the same.

In all of recorded history, we see people repeating the same mistakes time and time again. Why? Because it is human nature. People want to believe that "love will conquer all", but life is never simple like that. There are always stressors- jobs that make you work long hours, neighbors hitting on you or your spouse, horrible mothers-in-law or other family members working to break couples apart, bills, illnesses, keeping up with the Joneses, jealousy, pettiness, gossip, so on and so forth. Sometimes people grow apart, other times people were never right for each other to begin with but were just too stubborn to see it.

Just because something looks perfect, it does not mean that it is below the surface. People have a tendency to keep up appearances to try to show their neighbors how perfect their lives are, and more often than not, to try to delude themselves.

It is very comforting to believe that if you hope enough that things will work out. Hell, it would be great if there was a tall, muscular, handsome, hairy guy waiting around the corner who would swoop in, sweep me off my feet, raise some cats together, and live happily ever after. I would love to be proven wrong, but I might as well wish to win the lottery, get the Phoenix Force, or punch the universe to rewrite Pauly Shore out of our continuity. All of the wishing and hoping and thinking and praying is not going to change the fact that love is hard, and people are not in love as often as they think they are.

[Krylanna]

Sitting around and wishing and hoping things will work out is not the same thing as working hard though. I really think people do this more nowadays than in the past because the depression rate is higher than it has ever been. "Damn I wish I wasn't cheating on my wife." "Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop fighting?" "Why is it so hard not to tell my five-year-old son what an ass his father is every day of the week when I'm the idiot that married him in the first place?"

You get into a habit of doing harmful things. You recognize they're harmful. Yet you keep doing them. This is so common in society, and seems unrelated, this predisposition to addiction, yet that's exactly what it is. People are addicted to negative feelings. In their logical mind, neither person wants a bad relationship. In reality, both parties do every single little thing they possibly can to undermine the trust their partner has in them, from physical and verbal abuse to dishonesty to gossip to doing little annoying things around the house just to spite the other.

I'm not saying people should stay in abusive relationships. I'm not even saying married couples have to stay monogamous. What I am saying is that it takes two people to make a relationship work, and it's not that hard for two people to be civil to one another. There's just no incentive to do it anymore. A loveless marriage can work and has for thousands of years, but everyone thinks that if you don't have the passionate fire of new romance for ten, even twenty years straight, you have somehow failed and you don't "like" your partner anymore.

My basic point if you get past my confrontational language is that divorce isn't high these days because marriage itself is bad. This is really recent, and physical abuse hasn't gone up along with it as far as I know. Divorce is high because people are using it as a response to the normal arguments that happen occasionally when you get two people in close quarters for long periods of time, and because people are depressed and lazy now more than ever. People change, and that can cause you to grow apart, but I truly believe it is rare for a healthy, sane couple to take the drastic step of getting married and then end it in a messy divorce shortly after. Something is going on psychologically with one or both parties when that happens.

That or it's the gays.

[Septimus]

Sitting around and wishing and hoping things will work out is not the same thing as working hard though. I really think people do this more nowadays than in the past because the depression rate is higher than it has ever been. "Damn I wish I wasn't cheating on my wife." "Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop fighting?" "Why is it so hard not to tell my five-year-old son what an ass his father is every day of the week when I'm the idiot that married him in the first place?"

You get into a habit of doing harmful things. You recognize they're harmful. Yet you keep doing them. This is so common in society, and seems unrelated, this predisposition to addiction, yet that's exactly what it is. People are addicted to negative feelings. In their logical mind, neither person wants a bad relationship. In reality, both parties do every single little thing they possibly can to undermine the trust their partner has in them, from physical and verbal abuse to dishonesty to gossip to doing little annoying things around the house just to spite the other.

I'm not saying people should stay in abusive relationships. I'm not even saying married couples have to stay monogamous. What I am saying is that it takes two people to make a relationship work, and it's not that hard for two people to be civil to one another. There's just no incentive to do it anymore. A loveless marriage can work and has for thousands of years, but everyone thinks that if you don't have the passionate fire of new romance for ten, even twenty years straight, you have somehow failed and you don't "like" your partner anymore.

My basic point if you get past my confrontational language is that divorce isn't high these days because marriage itself is bad. This is really recent, and physical abuse hasn't gone up along with it as far as I know. Divorce is high because people are using it as a response to the normal arguments that happen occasionally when you get two people in close quarters for long periods of time, and because people are depressed and lazy now more than ever. People change, and that can cause you to grow apart, but I truly believe it is rare for a healthy, sane couple to take the drastic step of getting married and then end it in a messy divorce shortly after. Something is going on psychologically with one or both parties when that happens.

That or it's the gays.

One thing that really struck me about your whole post. Why would you want to stay in a loveless marriage? Should you stick around because you are afraid of being alone? Because it keeps the divorce rate low? Because you are afraid of what the neighbors may think?

I think a loveless marriage would be the worst kind of relationship after someone who is abusive, and is one of the primary reasons why I think marriage is a fundamentally flawed concept. Why would you want to share your bed and your life with someone that does not make you happy? Sure, passion dulls over the years, but that is not what makes a marriage loveless. If you do not even like your spouse anymore, what is the point?

[SephYuyX]

I agree with Tape for the most part, my dad is 'old fashioned' and so are the rest the males in my extended family, I grew up that way. The males work 5/6 days a week 8 to 5 to provide for their families. All the females in my family have had kids and they stayed home to raise them, after the kids got older (about 5th grade) they all went back to work part~full time if they wernt already working 1 or 2 days a week.

A female staying home to take after their kids isnt being a sexist, its to make sure their kids grow up fucking normal.

Anyway, back on the subject a bit.

The guy should always pay, however if the girl offers once in a blue moon for a change, let her. Always open doors for a lady, its not being 'babyish' or something similiar someone said earllier, its being polite and a gentlemen. etcetc.

I dunno, its just the way I was brought up, and I believe being 'old fashioned' is the right way to treat women. Im sure there are some girls out there that dont like that, but w/e. If a girl cant like you for what you are, then its not worth the hassle.

I have a few gal friends that I treat, but nothing crazy, im curtious to them, but they like to pay a lot. One of these days when I get an actual girlfriend ( ) ill prob wont be able to hold myself back and just spoil her into hating me lol.

[Shaede]

One thing that really struck me about your whole post. Why would you want to stay in a loveless marriage? Should you stick around because you are afraid of being alone? Because it keeps the divorce rate low? Because you are afraid of what the neighbors may think?

I think a loveless marriage would be the worst kind of relationship after someone who is abusive, and is one of the primary reasons why I think marriage is a fundamentally flawed concept. Why would you want to share your bed and your life with someone that does not make you happy? Sure, passion dulls over the years, but that is not what makes a marriage loveless. If you do not even like your spouse anymore, what is the point?

Loveless marriages, though the most common kind throughout human history, are certainly not the goal of today's marriages. In the past, marriage was almost entirely political or economic. Two people of different genders would be thrust together and be expected to work together to have a relationship, and of course, produce offspring to continue the bloodline (or business). The sort of bond that forms in this situation is exactly the aspect of marriage that I think it missing in today's relationships. That is what I believe Kryl is getting at.

Since that time we've moved on to marriages based on love. This has obvious advantages over a political or economic relationship, and ultimately has the potential to blossom into a far superior marriage. Why doesn't it? Because of ideas that people begin believing, such as this one:

Why would you want to share your bed and your life with someone that does not make you happy?

No relationship is ever going to make you happy. That's impossible. True happiness has to be worked for, and the most gratifying happiness has to be worked very hard for to obtain. You cannot just marry whomever you feel passionate about one day and expect to have a deep and meaningful relationship for the rest of your life with them. That flame will one day burn out, but there is something greater than that initial flame of passion you feel. It is something you must try really hard to understand and maintain, and the only glue that held togather marriages in the past so well. Combined with our deeper understanding of relationships and people in general, we have a lot more potential then ever before.

The main problem, as I see it, is that "hard work" has become a dirty word, when actually it's the key to all of life's successes and pleasures.

[Manako]

Sociologists have done studies and found that there is an increase in depression and other such bad things in people who are married than in people who are not. It is alot more beneficial for the government/society to have people be married than for the individual. >.> I still think a serious life long relationship can work--if you actually use logic in the relationship, and are both understanding and caring people.

I don't see why a girl would like having door opened for them, for me seems silly and embarrasing. Why should I make you go through the trouble of walking all the way around and waiting when I can do it myself? In the olden days sure, we wore pouffy skirts and needed the help. The only exception i can think of is if the door is really really heavy and I have difficulty opening it, but thats more of a muscle thing than a gender thing.

[Krylanna]

One thing that really struck me about your whole post. Why would you want to stay in a loveless marriage? Should you stick around because you are afraid of being alone? Because it keeps the divorce rate low? Because you are afraid of what the neighbors may think?

I'm ranting myself off-topic, basically. (Edit: chose the wrong word, as well. I meant something more like "passion-less". If you discover one day you truly hate who your spouse has become and they won't work with you on that, you need to move on.)

The whole concept of love in marriage is a really new idea, it used to be primarily an economic venture, running a household. People also used to be functioning members of society at age 12 and 14. Times change, I guess a higher divorce rate in itself isn't bad... mutual breakups with no hard feelings can happen, but you still end up with children who get hurt feelings and used as currency with the ex. My parents never divorced, but they used me and my brother both to vent about the other parent when they were going through a rough point in their relationship. We were only 7 and 5 years old respectively. That's pretty harmful, too. You can't look at just numbers when talking about an emotional subject.

Anyway, I just think people are too quick to say "I'm unhappy, this isn't working, let's divorce tomorrow" when they get into an argument, or see greener grass, or think they're falling out of love when really their libido is just dying. It's hard to put in words without sounding really strange... did that make more sense?

[Septimus]

Loveless marriages, though the most common kind throughout human history, are certainly not the goal of today's marriages. In the past, marriage was almost entirely political or economic. Two people of different genders would be thrust together and be expected to work together to have a relationship, and of course, produce offspring to continue the bloodline (or business). The sort of bond that forms in this situation is exactly the aspect of marriage that I think it missing in today's relationships. That is what I believe Kryl is getting at.

Since that time we've moved on to marriages based on love. This has obvious advantages over a political or economic relationship, and ultimately has the potential to blossom into a far superior marriage. Why doesn't it? Because of ideas that people begin believing, such as this one:

No relationship is ever going to make you happy. That's impossible. True happiness has to be worked for, and the most gratifying happiness has to be worked very hard for to obtain. You cannot just marry whomever you feel passionate about one day and expect to have a deep and meaningful relationship for the rest of your life with them. That flame will one day burn out, but there is something greater than that initial flame of passion you feel. It is something you must try really hard to understand and maintain, and the only glue that held togather marriages in the past so well. Combined with our deeper understanding of relationships and people in general, we have a lot more potential then ever before.

The main problem, as I see it, is that "hard work" has become a dirty word, when actually it's the key to all of life's successes and pleasures.

I'm ranting myself off-topic, basically. (Edit: chose the wrong word, as well. I meant something more like "passion-less". If you discover one day you truly hate who your spouse has become and they won't work with you on that, you need to move on.)

The whole concept of love in marriage is a really new idea, it used to be primarily an economic venture, running a household. People also used to be functioning members of society at age 12 and 14. Times change, I guess a higher divorce rate in itself isn't bad... mutual breakups with no hard feelings can happen, but you still end up with children who get hurt feelings and used as currency with the ex. My parents never divorced, but they used me and my brother both to vent about the other parent when they were going through a rough point in their relationship. We were only 7 and 5 years old respectively. That's pretty harmful, too. You can't look at just numbers when talking about an emotional subject.

Anyway, I just think people are too quick to say "I'm unhappy, this isn't working, let's divorce tomorrow" when they get into an argument, or see greener grass, or think they're falling out of love when really their libido is just dying. It's hard to put in words without sounding really strange... did that make more sense?

Let's not confuse what kinds of marriages that we are talking about. When social conservatives talk about "traditional marriage", they do not mean the old concept of arranged marriages, or even the biblical ideals where you could have multiple wives. (Hey there King Solomon.) They want to take their time machines and set them on pause back to the 50's where the men worked and the women spit out kids, had martinis ready for the provider, and never complained when she wound up with a black eye because she did not listen the first time. But society has evolved beyond the concept of helpless women-folk who just did not have what it took to survive in the working world, trying to go to that is like trying to bring back the Inquisition or torture. (Oh, wait...)

It is quite true, no relationship will ever make you happy. I have told people on many occasions that a relationship is like a belt, it does not matter if it is the nicest belt on the planet if your clothes are ragged or you are naked. (And sometimes people try to put a business belt onto a casual outfit, and other times people try to wear a suit with a belt with a "No Fat Chicks" buckle.) I can take that analogy further, although over time belts can get stretched, worn, and frayed they can still be comfortable and fit well. But sometimes people gain or lose weight cause the belt to not fit anymore, should you hang onto that belt that is cutting off your circulation or causing your pants to fall down all the time? The person you are today is not the person you will be in 10 years; the only people who do not change are the dead. Just because a relationship works now does not mean that it will when you are a different person.

Hard work is not a bad thing, but people need to recognize when you are trying to use a bucket to bail out the Titanic. It all goes back to the question, why are people so concerned that every marriage works? In the end, the problem is not divorce; the problem is that people enter into marriage too readily not understanding that you do not have to hold onto the first fish that you catch. The only glue that held marriages together in the past was that you had not choice but to stay together. You had marriage had to work because there were no other options other than your marriage having to work. Your spouse may not make you happy, but he/she most certainly can make you miserable.

I have seen far too many miserable marriages to hold onto a silly notion that you should try to save your relationship. Far too many people are far too immature to make a serious go at a serious relationship. Divorce is not the answer for these people, not getting married in the first place is.