RDM spell update

[Carbon]

Well I don't think Dia3 is completely worthless... with good communication, even one merit works great before skill chains on HNM. Probably not very MP efficient, but still not a bad idea.

If the stats you post on Phalanx II are correct, then it's not too incredibly great. It is, however, a buff that you can keep casting on a tank or two which DOES help out.

So far it's looking as if 3 merits in Paralyze 2 and Slow 2 are the best route to go, not so much for the accuracy, but more so for the potency. Has anyone tested Blind 2 out? I would like to know if it's a good hate giving move, as well. Would certainly help the tanking out a little, if so.

[shivan00b2]

I just thought I'd add that Paralyze 2 overrides Jubaki and Paralyze 1...

And Slow II overrides Slow I AND Hojo Ni.

I haven't tested to see if a higher level Slow/Paralyze II overrides a lower level one, though.

Btw I capped Para and now have Lv2 Slow

[FFXIFlux]

I just thought I'd add that Paralyze 2 overrides Jubaki and Paralyze 1...

And Slow II overrides Slow I AND Hojo Ni.

Nice.

BTW, one benefit of short duration dia is you can toss it on a mob that you may have to sleep. Tiamat while in the air for instance.

I tested slow 1 earlier today and it's still 30%, so it didn't get nerfed. I'll test slow 2 tomorrow.

[Lylie]

So does upgrading Slow 2 and Paralyze 2 really increase the Potency (better slow, and para proc more often?) AND the M.Acc, or is it another SE-bad-wording and only increase the M.Acc?

And yea, some info about Blind 2 would be nice

[G-Rod]

They quantify them each separately in the merit's description, 1 for 'potency' and 2 for 'accuracy'. Whether it actually does, I doubt anyone knows, but the description is clear that it modifies both.

I've yet to hear anything on Blind II. :\

[gemini~cusp]

I think the some posters and forums have it right that the idea of SE was to avoid players from putting in a merit in each category. All the jobs (except nin) have 6 meritable items or less. Like Summoner, making any category stronger than what the job has (ie. a meritable bloodpact vs. a bloodpact a smn already has) with just 1 merit wasn't SE's plan.

It seems the idea is to both make party configurations more comprehensive (especially end-game wise) and to add uniqueness to players. Its possible for example to mix up an rdm, sam and pld in a party and to use the TP trait to give a paladin the opportunity to gain more MP with Chivalry and to throw in a phalanx for an additional buffer.

Whats going to be interesting is how players coordinate various job abilities with one another. Before the most players had to do vis-a-vis one another is for melees coordinate weaponskills, who kites, etc. It wasn't comprehensive before. Now we have the opportunity to really add a bit more strategy and planning before hand. It also might reduce the player requirement for certain activities. I don't know if this will be something players love down the road. I can imagine summoners and black mages already pissed that 1 x merit won't make a difference. But that's how endgame is being lvl 75, we want it all and SE is really forcing us to pick and choose. I'm actually interested how putting 3 merits in just one category for smn & blm will differ.

I can see (from what has been posted) Slow and Phalanx are worth a merit (phalanx for exp parties has potential on a paladin I'd feel). Dia and Bio are nice but they'd need more merits (although the counter benefit is that with more merits, they'd seriously hurt given it would affect its potency and duration). Additionally you'd really have to choose one or the other. Like I said SE really is making us choose only a handful.

I think the update has potential but we really have to throw out the idea that we can "have them all" and that 1 merit in an ability will be sufficient for some jobs (some jobs have shown that 1 merit can make a huge difference like Angon for Drg). I'm kind of interested on Paralyze and Blind tbh. And hope more info can come out.

[darkdeath]

Para II procs a lot more than normal wth are you talking about.

I'd also like to see info about Blind II. Dia III seems great for merit PTs or for some weird HNM-scene.. Bio III... too much usefullness for this spell. Phalanx II is intentioned to be casted on PT members to add a boost on damage taken, i woudnt be surprised if normal overwrites it. Slow II looks cool, seems to have a lil bit more of slow % overall. Thank you.

[Reynard]

I've got 8 merits saved up and will be home soon from this work trip Ive been on, so I'm trying to decide what to get, but still not as much info on the new spells as I'd like...

So Raineer, you went for Bio III first huh? I'd love to know your reasons and overall plan for other category2 merits since I trust your testing and rationale for rdmagery. The DoT is only 7/tick huh? thats defintely less than the enemy version of bio 3 cast on a player isnt it? Do we know if the DoT goes up with merits or just the duration? And has anyone tested DiaIII DoT?

Has anyone tested slow or paralyze potency compared to tier1s in a scientific fashion, or figured out how much impact the upgrades actually have besides the vague potency+ and accuracy+ description?


I figure I want to merit either bio or dia to atleast level 2, and probably skip the other. I think I'd prefer Dia if the DoT is close, but really like damage reduction gear and taking hits as a rdm, so maybe bio is best.

I think I'd then pick slow or para to merit pretty high, but want more data on how they compare to tier 1 before I go for it. I don't have any elemental accuracy merits so thats not an issue for me on which spells to choose. Icespikes is so potent solo that i feel maybe para2 isnt the way to go. I'm wondering if Slow2 fully meritted might be extremely potent tool to take the bite out of mobs, but am wondering how much slower it is than other current slows. And I assume MND still has a big impact on it? Anyone have any advice on how much MND gear to pack to optimize slow if i decide to specialize with this tier2 spell? I'd LOVE to see numrical comparisons of slow1, brd slow, nin slow, and the various tiers of slow2. chop chop BG stat monkeys...

Being totally selfish, Phalanx2 doesnt have me excited since its so much less potent than the version I already have, but I'm sure my linkshell would appreciate it even at level1, and would probably be quite handy on some instanced uncapped BCs. I have very high enhancing thanks to gear and a merit, breaking the 300 barrier. I'm assuming that will get me an extra point of reduction with phx2 like it does with phx1....


ninja edit:
found this info on KI. Anyone got any other data to validate these tests or add more info like Dia DoT etc?

Some dude on KI said:

Dia II
239 -> 214 [-10.4%]
264(ProtectII) -> 237 [-10.2%]

Dia III
239 -> 202 [-15.4%]
264(ProtectII) -> 223 [-15.5%]


Slow 2 tests (Only AT level 1)

I could of done more of these but I was lazy. Target's MND was only 49. These percents are going to have a proportional margin of error of about 1-2%.

Utusemi Ni w/MND
Slow (65+48 MND)
45s -> 57s [27% Slow]

Slow 2 (65+48 MND)
45s -> 60s [33% Slow]

Utusemi Ni w/o MND
Slow (65MND)
45s -> 52s [15% Slow]

Slow 2 (65MND)
45s -> 56s [22% Slow][/b]

[masag0]

http://64.39.26.234/limitbreak/files/guides/test.htm

tested slow II lvl 1 and lvl 2

results can be found on this KI thread

http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=129137

hojo II is constant 18.52%

slow I caps at 30% (based off jpn site)

slow II lvl 1 caps at 33.33%

slow II lvl 2 caps at 35.56 %

slow II lvl 3 (haven't gotten, not sure I will)

carnage elegy is constant 48.89%

bio III 200 dark skill 7 dmg /tick & -15% attack down
bio III 220 dark skill 8 dmg/tick & -15% attack down
bio II 291 dark skill 8 dmg/ tick & -10% attack down

poison II 10 dmg/tick

dia II -10% def

dia III - 15% def

[Raineer]

Reading Comprehension 4tw. He said it would make PLD/WAR a joke on Fafnir. PLD/WAR being probably the worst tank on Faf in comparison to a WAR/NIN, PLD/NIN or NIN/WAR, just because of the TP added by taking so many hits, and the lower hate threshold. Of all people, Raineer knows how much of a joke Fafnir is. :wink:

We've killed lots and lots of Fafs with PLD/WAR. I'll repeat... Fafnir IS a joke. Sorry if you guys have trouble with it. Speaking of reading comprehension, Raineer, 3 + 3 = 6, not 9.

flux you're just a fucking idiot. thx

[Reynard]

great post masago.

damn, didnt realize carnage elegy was so potent (and consistent without need for stat gear or mp to boot). Does Slow stack with it (i assume no)? If not, is there a point to RDM slow in allaince battles or typical rdm+brd parties? Interested in the cap for slow2 at lvl3, but clearly itll be way lower than elegy, Im thinking 38 or 40% at best.

Any ideas on how to test para2 effectiveness? its so random as is, and im not sure there is any real test that can be done. I suppose I want to know if anyone has tried landing it on gods in particular and seen any sort of decent stick rate?

Doesnt look like bio or dia str or def % changes with higher merit levels. Guess my only question now is DoT of Dia3 and how it compares to Dia2 DoT (and i imagine both are still much lower than bio2 anyway...)

I'm thinking while Bio3's DOt is better than bio2, its still not that great thanks to rdm max dark skill gimping its potential and the overall mp cost involved. its pretty much on par with a blm casting bio2 in a non solo situation, and the mp cost solo is prohibitive, especially if not fully meritted. Not sure its THAT much better than settling for bio2 and poison2... such tricky decisions...

[Russta]

damn, didnt realize carnage elegy was so potent (and consistent without need for stat gear or mp to boot). Does Slow stack with it (i assume no)?

Yes it does.

[FFXIFlux]

Speaking of reading comprehension, Raineer, 3 + 3 = 6, not 9.

flux you're just a fucking idiot. thx

Your opinion of my intelligence doesn't hold much weight since it's coming from someone that can't even add. Oh thats right, YOUR merits have 4 tiers because you're special. Sniff glue much?

I did 1 test of Slow II (level 1) on clipper in Qufim, had about 124 MND or so. 20 attacks took 80 seconds, Slow 1 104 seconds (30%), Slow 2 110 seconds (37.5%). I'll give it another try tomorrow to make sure I wasn't off.

Paralyze II is... odd. I had it go off 8+ times in a row on Ouryu, and 0 times + very quick wearoffs pretty commonly on puks in thickets. I still think threnody boosts paralyze proc. I also had a few resists from puks which is odd since paralyze I always landed for me.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Flux, your brilliantly scientific studies have earned much respect from me.

[Sylvrdragon]

Holy shit... With even MND, SlowII is 10% more potent than SlowI and gets more Accurate with more levels.... (Higher cap doesn't really matter since you aren't likely to double the MND of anything in end-game).

Interesting to note that base potency doesn't get any higher with more levels, just the Cap raises. So in essence, if you merit this more than once, all you are getting is more M.Acc for it (Since you aren't likely to hit the cap on anything that matters). I guess if you don't have room to merit straight Earth ACC from your List1 RDM merits, then you could use levels from List2 instead. Its just a question on which category from which you think levels are more important, List1 or List2. Hmmm. I think I'm going to keep this one at level1. I need those other levels from both categories, and while more M.Acc would be nice for this spell, I already have an HQ staff with almost 330 Enfeebling. Not to mention, a good number of End-Game mobs are resistant or immune to earth based spells anyway.

I already planned on getting ParalyzeII. I must assume that tests will show similar results, and so I likely won't go above level1 for that one either (Especially since I already have Ice Acc merits, and HQ Staff again).

Since the DoT for BioIII is a joke, and -15% ATK on end-game mobs is "lol". I probably won't even get the initial level of this one.

I had already intended to get level1 DiaIII to use for burn PTs (Fights don't last longer than 30 seconds anyway) and right before WSs and melee 2hrs on end-game mobs. I don't see any reason to really care if it lasts longer than 30 seconds.

BlindII is a complete waste IMO. Even though a lot of stuff end-game is NIN tanked, NINs don't evade that much and Kurayami gets them hate anyway.

I already got lv1 PhalanxII, and while I am definately disappointed in it, it looks like I'm going to have some spare levels in this category to throw around after all so I may just cap it anyway.

For me, it looks like I'll have 4/6 new spells, and I'll be mostly happy with all of them. PhalanxII Lv3, SlowII Lv1, ParalyzeII Lv1, DiaIII Lv1.

[Tsunade]

200 Dark Skill Bio III = 7dmg/tick
220 Dark Skill Bio III = 8dmg/tick
How much dmg/tick is Bio II at these Dark Magic skill levels?

Based on what I currently do (merit parties and duo manaburn), I'm going: 3x Bio III, Dia III, Paralyze II. The 6th point is a toss up between Paralyze II again or Slow II.

Dia III only needs to be level 1 for merit parties. If the mob takes much longer than 30 seconds, something is wrong. Paralyze II will be a handy enfeeble for manaburning. If something is awake, it will have at most one chance to attack my BLM duo partner, before I zzz it again. This means there's no need for Slow, whereas Paralyze will really get to shine. For now, I'm leaning toward maxing Bio III so I can DoT kited NMs when duoing (BLM hasn't been casting Bio II, to save himself from getting additional hate). However, if the DoT from a RDM's Bio II is close, I might reconsider.

[ps2user]

200 Dark Skill Bio III = 7dmg/tick
220 Dark Skill Bio III = 8dmg/tick
How much dmg/tick is Bio II at these Dark Magic skill levels?

Based on what I currently do (merit parties and duo manaburn), I'm going: 3x Bio III, Dia III, Paralyze II. The 6th point is a toss up between Paralyze II again or Slow II.

Dia III only needs to be level 1 for merit parties. If the mob takes much longer than 30 seconds, something is wrong. Paralyze II will be a handy enfeeble for manaburning. If something is awake, it will have at most one chance to attack my BLM duo partner, before I zzz it again. This means there's no need for Slow, whereas Paralyze will really get to shine. For now, I'm leaning toward maxing Bio III so I can DoT kited NMs when duoing (BLM hasn't been casting Bio II, to save himself from getting additional hate). However, if the DoT from a RDM's Bio II is close, I might reconsider.

bio2
dark magic skill
@ 200 5hp/3sec naked rdm
@ 211 6hp/3sec
@ 269 7hp/3sec naked blm
@ 291 8hp/3sec
and 8hp/3sec is the max DOT dmg for bio2

[Vail]

I ran some test and ploted out a highly probably formula for Phalanx II

(Enhancing Skill/25) + (3 x "Lv of merit") +1 = phalanx II's damage prevention

you need 2 points to plot an accurate line, however I only have 1 point and speculation based on others test for this current formula

added my test with Phalanx II vs Cactuars 
Test was done as rdm/smn to have carbuncle to absorb damage from 1000 needles (to prevent my death~) 
no -% physical damage was equiped at any time 
Base skill 256: 
following equip options to modify my enhancing skill 
Warlock's Tights: +15 skill 
Glamour Jupon: +3 enhancing skill 
Enhancing Torque: +7 enhancing skill 

Enhancing magic = 256 to 274 : -14 damage taken (486 damage from 1000 needles) 
Enhancing magic = 278 to 281 : -15 damage taken (485 damage from 1000 needles) 


Quote 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Madrone from KI forums: 
Saw a test of Phalanx II vs Cactuars posted. It lasts 2 minutes at level 1. 

with 256 Enhancing magic it reduced damage by 14 
with 296 Enhancing magic it reduced damage by 15 

Add 3 damage to the reduction and 30 seconds of duration per extra merit you put into it. >.> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it's possible to break 300 enhancing, but I myself do not have the equip to do so (nor do many if ANY) to determain if -16 damage happens at/after 300 enhancing skill

[Aodh]

In terms of merits, Peoples opinions?

1merit - Phalanx II
1merit - Dia III
1merit - Bio III
3merit - Para II
6

I would rather a mob be para'd than Slow II'd. Phal on tanks would help a little for damage taken and healing, but not worth jacking up. Dia III for burn parties, Bio III for a short term HNM Dot (Tiamat when flying).

[Ksandra]

hmmm originally it seemed like people thought that the lvl 1 spells didn't really hold their own, but now from the tests it seems infact they do. It seems I may throw 1 point in each (except bio), and two in para...hmmmm