RDM spell update

[Septimus]

I think the biggest problem with blind is that it is currently untrackable. If there was a message like "The Big Angry Crab of Doom misses tank because of the Blind effect" (so there would be a different message for Flash) we would have a much more useful way to measure the spell's effectiveness.

So far it looks like I will do at least one to Paralyze II, Slow II, and Blind II, not sure after that. Phalanx II would kick ass if it were based off of Phalanx's formula with the same +3 per upgrade, but as it stands a fully merited 24 damage is just lame for double the casting cost.

[Khamsin]

Phalanx II stopping ~15 damage on an attack doing 200+ to a PLD....I'll pass. Waste of MP and time.

I thought it was closer to 20 damage? Keep in mind that even shaving 15 damage off a 200 hit is nearly d.ring effectiveness. And the better the PLD's gear is, the more effective the phalanx is (percentage wise). To say Phalanx II isn't worth the MP or time for shaving off 15-20 damage off a 200 hit would be like saying d.ring is a waste of a ring slot.

As for MP efficiency, I don't recall how much MP Phalanx II costs, but let's compare to Cure III.

Cure III with light staff cures about 198 HP for 48 MP.
If Phalanx II shaved off only 15 damage, it would take about 13 hits to match the damage saved by Cure III.

At 2 min 30 seconds for a level 2 Phalanx II, that's 150 seconds. 13 hits in 150 seconds is a hit every 11.5 seconds. We know that mobs hit a lot faster than once every 11.5 seconds. So, assuming Phalanx II costs no more than Cure III, we know that Phalanx II will be a lot more MP efficient because by the time the 150 seconds are up, you'll have saved a lot more damage than a single Cure III would have healed.

Now, how much MP can Phalanx II cost and still be worth it? Well, let's assume a mob attacks, on average, every 3 seconds. 15 damage saved every 3 seconds for 150 seconds = 750 damage during the duration of a single cast of Phalanx II. 750 damage = 3.8 Cure IIIs, which would cost 182 MP.

So if Phalanx II cost 182 MP, it'd be equal to Cure III in MP efficiency under the conditions we have assumed above. I'm fairly positive it doesn't cost that much.

[RakEx]

Almost everywhere I read about RDM new merits it seems people are hating on Phalanx because its not enough of a reduction. When fighting Fafnir regular hits for a good pld/war are 130-170? With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg. With phalanx 2 thats like wearing 2 Drings. I dont see how thats not good. So -30ish dmg on each hit for a HNM fight adds up and saves healers alot of mp and hate. I think phalanx 2 is too good to pass on.

So give your PLD or TANK a Dring for 50 or w/e MP. IF he already has one give him dual Drings. Im sure he'll appreciate it.

[Raineer]

Almost everywhere I read about RDM new merits it seems people are hating on Phalanx because its not enough of a reduction. When fighting Fafnir regular hits for a good pld/war are 130-170? With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg. With phalanx 2 thats like wearing 2 Drings. I dont see how thats not good. So -30ish dmg on each hit for a HNM fight adds up and saves healers alot of mp and hate. I think phalanx 2 is too good to pass on.

That's why I was giving flux shit for bitching about it not being as good as phalanx I, if it was a base 30 and meritable for even more it would be a joke. That's more than a d.ring on anything up to tiamat (short of MS), people really don't realize just how insane a flat 30ish reduction in the damage curve is. The amount of VIT needed to do anywhere near that would be ridiculous.

[Not Kuno]

]With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg.

Oh so thats the problem. Ok gimme a few minutes to pull our defending ring pld out of the imaginary box.

[Raineer]

]With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg.

Oh so thats the problem. Ok gimme a few minutes to pull our defending ring pld out of the imaginary box.

Or just cast Phalanx II on a real one.

[RakEx]

]With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg.

Oh so thats the problem. Ok gimme a few minutes to pull our defending ring pld out of the imaginary box.

Or just cast Phalanx II on a real one.

Exactly.

[Khamsin]

]With a defending ring thats -13 to -17 dmg.

Oh so thats the problem. Ok gimme a few minutes to pull our defending ring pld out of the imaginary box.

Or just cast Phalanx II on a real one.

Exactly.

Especially since its a lot more MP efficient than tossing 3-4 Cure IIIs during the 2 min 30 sec Phalanx II is active.

[Kaziel]

I would bet it's a lot more aggro efficent than 3x Cure III as well...

Side notes: Phalanx II costs 42 MP.
And with points into Phalanx II it will be absorbing 17-18 damage per hit for 2 min 30 sec, so your numbers in your example would increase to 850-900 damage absorbed over the duration of the cast.

[Quizno]

What concerns me is that I would never get enough use out of Phalanx II. I say this because everything we fight that might actually make full use of the dmg reduction is something that we would probably blink tank.

Paralyze II falls into the same trap. I guess I would own fafhogg, but what other HNM is it going to be useful on?

Slow II? Fafhogg + Tiamat

Dia III? Hard to say…e-peen for melee? Once you chain 100+ are you really having issues with dealing damage? If it is noticeable aid on hnm I’d like to find out.

Bio III? See Phalanx II.

Blind II? Meh.


Obviously I’m going to spend 6 points on some combination. At this point it honestly just seems like question of what will be least useless now and in the future.

Maybe when Nathlas gets relic shield we can stack phalanx II and Bio III and see if /war will be better than /nin?

Otherwise I’d have to lean towards capping paralyze and slow =/

For the time being I think I’m going to just wait and see if any concrete numbers are produced in an HNM setting.

[RakEx]

Yes, but just because we use PLD/NIN or NIN doesnt mean that these tanks arn't getting hit. They are getting hit all the time. Phalanx does work when Tiamat is in the air, right? Works on AOE, works on everything... I thought. The more i think about this the more im leaning towards capping phalanx, since i'm almost always in the tank PT if im there and on time.

[Raineer]

Yes, but just because we use PLD/NIN or NIN doesnt mean that these tanks arn't getting hit. They are getting hit all the time. Phalanx does work when Tiamat is in the air, right? Works on AOE, works on everything... I thought. The more i think about this the more im leaning towards capping phalanx, since i'm almost always in the tank PT if im there and on time.

Yup, with phalanx II and some of these high fire resistance builds, you could see some fireballs for 0.

edit: no one say shadow ring

[Rocl]

Yes, but just because we use PLD/NIN or NIN doesnt mean that these tanks arn't getting hit. They are getting hit all the time. Phalanx does work when Tiamat is in the air, right? Works on AOE, works on everything... I thought. The more i think about this the more im leaning towards capping phalanx, since i'm almost always in the tank PT if im there and on time.

Yup, with phalanx II and some of these high fire resistance builds, you could see some fireballs for 0.

edit: no one say shadow ring

ring of shadows

[Quizno]

But for the most part they aren't getting hit once every 3 seconds by actual physical attacks landing.

If touchdown and fi9eball are affected by phalanx then maybe.

However, using Tiamat as a specific example:

I've read that the difference between slow I and II on an HNM is a flat 10% since you don't reach the MND cap. This is the kind of information that is going to be vital before I make my decission. 10% slow translates into 10% less damage. And works for everyone meaning you wont need to cast phalanx II 3 times (126 mp) on three different tanks. Instead you cast slow II (45mp?) with a hit percent of 50%+ so 90 mp vs 126mp, with alot less hassle.

obviously there are other factors, but Im waiting for things to shake out.

[RakEx]

But MP isn't really a concern for us at all Quiz.

[Aodh]

What concerns me is that I would never get enough use out of Phalanx II. I say this because everything we fight that might actually make full use of the dmg reduction is something that we would probably blink tank.

Paralyze II falls into the same trap. I guess I would own fafhogg, but what other HNM is it going to be useful on?

Slow II? Fafhogg + Tiamat.

So we've established that Phalanx over it's duration prevents ~700hp. Each time a paralyze prevents an attack that's like blocking it for the full damage (80-100 per). If you can stop a mob from attacking 7 - 10 times over the same duration, paralyze is equal vs mobs that hit 70-100 (not including criticals). Slow/Blind are basically the same, they either hit slower and over time do less damage or miss more often. Para helps on Blink tanks just as much as PLD.

I'm starting to change my strat. I'm thinking now:

1merit: Phal II
2merit: Slow II
3merit: Para II
6merit total

[Quizno]

Yeah yeah, mp isnt important, but neither is enmity and look how badly I whore out on that =p

Even if is the same mp, adding it to my refresh/haste cycle isnt an inspiring thought.


Paralyze is often fully resisted.

[RakEx]

Yeah.

Paralyze... FAF/NID and EXP... Occassionnaly lands on Cerb? Not sure I havn't tried much.

Don't get me wrong, Paralyze is one of the best enfeebs there is, but it is very limited use on HNM. Which is all I really worry about because we don't even need to use these new spells for XP where chain 200+ is pretty easy these days.

[Raineer]

What concerns me is that I would never get enough use out of Phalanx II. I say this because everything we fight that might actually make full use of the dmg reduction is something that we would probably blink tank.

Paralyze II falls into the same trap. I guess I would own fafhogg, but what other HNM is it going to be useful on?

Slow II? Fafhogg + Tiamat.

So we've established that Phalanx over it's duration prevents ~700hp. Each time a paralyze prevents an attack that's like blocking it for the full damage (80-100 per). If you can stop a mob from attacking 7 - 10 times over the same duration, paralyze is equal vs mobs that hit 70-100 (not including criticals). Slow/Blind are basically the same, they either hit slower and over time do less damage or miss more often. Para helps on Blink tanks just as much as PLD.

I'm starting to change my strat. I'm thinking now:

1merit: Phal II
2merit: Slow II
3merit: Para II
6merit total

Para2 + Slow2 + Phalanx2 = THREE FINGER SALUTE all with drings lol

ahh the power of rdm

[DrObvious]

So far it looks like I will do at least one to Paralyze II, Slow II, and Blind II, not sure after that. Phalanx II would kick ass if it were based off of Phalanx's formula with the same +3 per upgrade, but as it stands a fully merited 24 damage is just lame for double the casting cost.

Shouldn't it be 21 fully merited?