Chocobo digging hit with a sledgehammer

[Forge]

regardless of whether its A10, A15, or A20 its still a pain in the ass. I'm a pretty avid digger since im still trying to get to A10... but i guess SE decided i should be a "Casual digger" too...

Edit: gahh you mean /wait 10 between digs, lol i thought you ment "Area 10" sorry, well for A20s and lower its like 20 mins of digging tops ; ;

[genome]

Aurik, temper... where does all that aggression comes from? Tune it down a bit.
So you don't like a lot of things about this game, and you are unhappy/disgruntal. We get it.
Do you even dig? Either way, some people like the change, you don't have to snap at people just because they enjoy the game, or like a change, or bring up a point you don't like to think about (or specifically, corrected you nicely on something, which apparently causes you to still makes you write weird sniping comments to this day).

About the points brought up by Forge, I understand, it's definitely a change. I was just giving you a few reasons while other a15 people like me don't necessarily think it's all bad. Leveling chocobo was still all gain for me or break even for 3 years, doing it a bit at a time in between other stuff. Also if the pools are bigger, competition with other A10 might not really be a big issue.

[Fhqwghads]

I'd rather have more RMT and this fatigue taken away, because before the patch i could make a ton more money with RMT diggers in the zone then without them and with a fatigue in effect. 20 mins to basically dig out 1 zone is not a "fun activity". Being able to dig through about 7 different zones and making 500k-1mil is more fun to me than having a 15 stack limit and having too choose the best area to profit in for the day. Hell with the restriction of 15-20 stacks you have to know where all the other diggers are even MORE then before the patch.

Preach on, Brother Forge!

This is so true it's not even funny. You absolutely have to know who and where the high level diggers are if you want to get the most out of the 15 minutes/100 items of digging. If someone just zoned to Rolanberry and dug up 1 or 2 orich and some gold beastcoins, and you have no idea that a high level digger was just out there, guess what your 100 items will be? A few mythril coins, sage, red jars, and other complete shit items. Now you have to wait another real-life day before you can wander out again and take a stab and hope the gamble pays off. Total and utter bullshit.

[Forge]

saddly genome, all i've noticed from the increase item pool is more pebbles and bonechips... ;; all though i did dig up 5 darksteels on north gustaburg, i think that was just luck.

[aurik]

Aurik, temper... where does all that aggression comes from? Tune it down a bit.
So you don't like a lot of things about this game, and you are unhappy/disgruntal. We get it.
Do you even dig? Either way, some people like the change, you don't have to snap at people just because they enjoy the game, or like a change, or bring up a point you don't like to think about (or specifically, corrected you nicely on something, which apparently causes you to still makes you write weird sniping comments to this day).

About the points brought up by Forge, I understand, it's definitely a change. I was just giving you a few reasons while other a15 people like me don't necessarily think it's all bad. Leveling chocobo was still all gain for me or break even for 3 years, doing it a bit at a time in between other stuff. Also if the pools are bigger, competition with other A10 might not really be a big issue.

Genome, do you take all criticism as "anger"? Your passive-aggressiveness is showing again.

Can someone criticise your view without being angry? I'm not angry with you, I just think that your outlook is stupid and warning other people that you have a history of acting like you're on anti-anxiety medication.

[Forge]

hey hey hey, dont get mad at each other, get mad with SE and spam their service and support emails until they fix this

[genome]

Aurik, temper... where does all that aggression comes from? Tune it down a bit.
So you don't like a lot of things about this game, and you are unhappy/disgruntal. We get it.
Do you even dig? Either way, some people like the change, you don't have to snap at people just because they enjoy the game, or like a change, or bring up a point you don't like to think about (or specifically, corrected you nicely on something, which apparently causes you to still makes you write weird sniping comments to this day).

About the points brought up by Forge, I understand, it's definitely a change. I was just giving you a few reasons while other a15 people like me don't necessarily think it's all bad. Leveling chocobo was still all gain for me or break even for 3 years, doing it a bit at a time in between other stuff. Also if the pools are bigger, competition with other A10 might not really be a big issue.

Genome, do you take all criticism as "anger"? Your passive-aggressiveness is showing again.

Can someone criticise your view without being angry? I'm not angry with you, I just think that your outlook is stupid and warning other people that you have a history of acting like you're on anti-anxiety medication.

The discussion is on a specific aspect of the game. You can make your points without talking about people in negative terms, which has nothing to do with the discussion in the first place.
Saying "1+1=2 is false because mr. Aurik said it, and he's a doodoohead", is not really a valid argument.
Notice I never once just said anything negative about anybody, especially unsolicited, even if I might have different opinions or views on a topic than you at times. You don't see me suddenly interrupting a normal discussion with a random flame or personal attack to Aurik. If you make a point, I might bring up alternatives, or agree/disagree with that, without adding a bunch of personal comments about you.
Even when I respond to a direct uncalled-for flame from you, at most you see me disapproving and questioning your inappropriate behavior, not your person. Asking why you do this is a valid question, one I think would be good for you to find out about as well. I also don't think you might have as good a grasp of the word passive aggressive as you think, or you might be just using it incorrectly.


Going back on the topic, did anybody try any more testing on this digging fatigue? For example, if you don't exhaust it but say split the same amount that would fatigue you in 2 or 3 sessions, does it regenerate faster? I guess people might know if it's a straight number of attempts per day or if it is a bit more complex from possible similarity to fishing or mining fatigue... any ideas?

[Fhqwghads]

Yesterday instead of spam-digging, I waited a good 15-30 seconds at times between digs to space it out and see if maybe fatigue was something that build up rapidly due to spam-digging. I thought maybe if there was some breathing room between digs the fatigue factor might not be an issue.

Nope. Fatigued right around 100 items. Doesn't matter if you spam or try to pace yourself, you get fucked either way. Which of course means everyone and their brother will be hitting Rolanberry to spam-dig for their 100 items and hope they come up with some orich.

[Forge]

perhaps digging up items from goblin diggers can combat fatigue? it's a dumb idea but if there was any trick to getting around the fatigue, they dont use goblin items for stuff anyway. I'll try testing it later, been logged on for 30 mins and im already fatigued.. lol :/

[aurik]

Aurik, temper... where does all that aggression comes from? Tune it down a bit.
So you don't like a lot of things about this game, and you are unhappy/disgruntal. We get it.
Do you even dig? Either way, some people like the change, you don't have to snap at people just because they enjoy the game, or like a change, or bring up a point you don't like to think about (or specifically, corrected you nicely on something, which apparently causes you to still makes you write weird sniping comments to this day).

About the points brought up by Forge, I understand, it's definitely a change. I was just giving you a few reasons while other a15 people like me don't necessarily think it's all bad. Leveling chocobo was still all gain for me or break even for 3 years, doing it a bit at a time in between other stuff. Also if the pools are bigger, competition with other A10 might not really be a big issue.

Genome, do you take all criticism as "anger"? Your passive-aggressiveness is showing again.

Can someone criticise your view without being angry? I'm not angry with you, I just think that your outlook is stupid and warning other people that you have a history of acting like you're on anti-anxiety medication.

The discussion is on a specific aspect of the game. You can make your points without talking about people in negative terms, which has nothing to do with the discussion in the first place.
Saying "1+1=2 is false because mr. Aurik said it, and he's a doodoohead", is not really a valid argument.
Notice I never once just said anything negative about anybody, especially unsolicited, even if I might have different opinions or views on a topic than you at times. You don't see me suddenly interrupting a normal discussion with a random flame or personal attack to Aurik. If you make a point, I might bring up alternatives, or agree/disagree with that, without adding a bunch of personal comments about you.
Even when I respond to a direct uncalled-for flame from you, at most you see me disapproving and questioning your inappropriate behavior, not your person. Asking why you do this is a valid question, one I think would be good for you to find out about as well. I also don't think you might have as good a grasp of the word passive aggressive as you think, or you might be just using it incorrectly.

I'm calling your opinion of the digging change hopelessly medicated; only someone who was on some of these would happily watch their own castration and call it a "change for the better".

Look up passive-aggressive on wikipedia. I already gave you a link in the past that you chose to ignore. "Sometimes a method of dealing with stress or frustration, it results in the person attacking other people in subtle, indirect, and seemingly passive ways." If the shoe fits, yadda yadda. Let me enumerate the attacks you commonly make in a passive way:

- You don't engage in discussion, you call people who disagree with you "angry" and chide them to "control their temper".
- You claim not to flame people while simultaneously insinuating that they are psychologically unbalanced
- You repeatedly mischaracterise people's arguments in order to frustrate them after they repeatedly attempt correct your model of their argument
- You flat-out ignore valid challenges to your claims and arguments; commonly you deflect these into the next tactic listed
- You "play doctor" with other people's posts to establish a position of superiority
- You repeatedly play the "I'm better than you (because my insults are more stealthy)" card.

Are you really still unaware that you are the source of the irritation that you see in every online community you see? Your universal unpopularity is no mystery to me or to many other people here.

[Catrina]

Seriously, in a perfect FFXI, we wouldn't have RMT, neither camping NM's or digging.

Obviously it blows that SE doesn't simply ban the cheaters, but not surprising considering their track record.

I've been digging over 2 years now, and honestly, it made me a lot more furious that the deserts, where it was once possible to get 5 p.stones over10 stacks of greens on a single outing got overrun by RMT. And I love to dig that zone, regarless of rewards in others, this is the one that really appeals to me. I'm glad to see RMT ruined (personal opinion only). And I know that it's extremely easy to find the deserts diggable, which is what I really want to do.


Also, from my experiences with my lv20 mule, level progression seems to be a lot faster in this new system. I only dug 1 day, and I sense that /wait 11 is close. It took me way over a week of solid digging to get this far before.

[Delekii]

You know what Im glad about? The 30 dark staves on my mule might finally rise in price

[genome]

About leveling up digging, many people believe when you dig up 'empty', it doesn't help your skillup. So I think it's possible this might actually make people skill up faster, especially on servers that were most dug up

On a side note, to hopefully close this sidetrack:

Aurik, temper... where does all that aggression comes from? Tune it down a bit.
So you don't like a lot of things about this game, and you are unhappy/disgruntal. We get it.
Do you even dig? Either way, some people like the change, you don't have to snap at people just because they enjoy the game, or like a change, or bring up a point you don't like to think about (or specifically, corrected you nicely on something, which apparently causes you to still makes you write weird sniping comments to this day).

About the points brought up by Forge, I understand, it's definitely a change. I was just giving you a few reasons while other a15 people like me don't necessarily think it's all bad. Leveling chocobo was still all gain for me or break even for 3 years, doing it a bit at a time in between other stuff. Also if the pools are bigger, competition with other A10 might not really be a big issue.

Genome, do you take all criticism as "anger"? Your passive-aggressiveness is showing again.

Can someone criticise your view without being angry? I'm not angry with you, I just think that your outlook is stupid and warning other people that you have a history of acting like you're on anti-anxiety medication.

The discussion is on a specific aspect of the game. You can make your points without talking about people in negative terms, which has nothing to do with the discussion in the first place.
Saying "1+1=2 is false because mr. Aurik said it, and he's a doodoohead", is not really a valid argument.
Notice I never once just said anything negative about anybody, especially unsolicited, even if I might have different opinions or views on a topic than you at times. You don't see me suddenly interrupting a normal discussion with a random flame or personal attack to Aurik. If you make a point, I might bring up alternatives, or agree/disagree with that, without adding a bunch of personal comments about you.
Even when I respond to a direct uncalled-for flame from you, at most you see me disapproving and questioning your inappropriate behavior, not your person. Asking why you do this is a valid question, one I think would be good for you to find out about as well. I also don't think you might have as good a grasp of the word passive aggressive as you think, or you might be just using it incorrectly.

I'm calling your opinion of the digging change hopelessly medicated; only someone who was on some of these would happily watch their own castration and call it a "change for the better".

Look up passive-aggressive on wikipedia. I already gave you a link in the past that you chose to ignore. "Sometimes a method of dealing with stress or frustration, it results in the person attacking other people in subtle, indirect, and seemingly passive ways." If the shoe fits, yadda yadda. Let me enumerate the attacks you commonly make in a passive way:

- You don't engage in discussion, you call people who disagree with you "angry" and chide them to "control their temper".
- You claim not to flame people while simultaneously insinuating that they are psychologically unbalanced
- You repeatedly mischaracterise people's arguments in order to frustrate them after they repeatedly attempt correct your model of their argument
- You flat-out ignore valid challenges to your claims and arguments; commonly you deflect these into the next tactic listed
- You "play doctor" with other people's posts to establish a position of superiority
- You repeatedly play the "I'm better than you (because my insults are more stealthy)" card.

Are you really still unaware that you are the source of the irritation that you see in every online community you see? Your universal unpopularity is no mystery to me or to many other people here.

You should consider using private messages for these, so you don't derail threads with flames.
What you listed are just your personal feelings and supposed reasons why you feel justified being antagonistic and writing flames.
The definition of passive aggressive is not the problem, it's just that you are not using it appropriately here. Frustration and aggression, both in the definition, are both applying to your behavior in this thread, not mine.
For example insulting a person by loading an unrelated statement with an implicit insult or attack to that person, that would be an example of passive aggressive behavior.
Sarcasm often goes along with passive aggressive statements, to give a more entertaining example, take http://snltranscripts.jt.org/00/00mpam.phtml

Now, about your bulletpoints, I think you are twisting my discussion on positive aspects of chocobo changes pretty far.
-I enter in discussion all the times, including in this thread. I made several points of discussion and read and acknowledged every post read in this thread, but then also offered an alternative way to look at it and my personal opinion about how it will impact my fun level. I just keep my arguments insult-free because I don't think personal attacks would be relevant.
-I don't flame people, and I never started a flame. If you start shouting/insulting out of nowhere in a thread when I was talking calmly about chocobos (and not you), I will ask what is your problem. If you continue and get even more out of control for no apparent reason, I will ask what is wrong with you. I think it's only normal to wonder. If you don't want people to wonder why you are acting like you just snapped, don't act like you just snapped. I think that's only reasonable.
-You haven't made any claim on my argument about chocobos. Others have brought up interesting points and point of views, and I discussed and acknowledged those.
-I don't put myself in a position of superiority, nor have I ever mentioned anything of the sort in any of my posts. I have never put down someone here, I might have brought up counterexamples to their arguments. I didn't say it's good or bad, or that one person was better than another. It seems unnecessary so I don't do it. I definitely think it can be a petty behavior but I don't judge you or put you down for it, other than objecting to it when you specifically involve me in that.
On the other hand, you seem to suggest that I am somehow a bad person because I don't insult you and thus I must think I am superior, is an example of you mischaracterizing my points, not the other way around.
I think you also want to think about your idea of 'community'. I don't have any other problem with you or other people other than these random flames that you started after one post where I just showed some assault data that seemed to irritate you to this extreme. Over all the time I played the game, I have seen a handful of other people who maybe liked to get into shout matches too much or developed grudges when people mention some stat or detail about the game they somehow couldn't tolerate to hear.
You and these couple other people are a bit too moody for my taste, but I have no problem having a respectful and civilized conversation on game topics, even complimenting them on an interesting discovery or post.
It wouldn't kill you to try a bit harder to do the same, for example without coming out of the blu in the middle of a thread with a flame. You talking about my balls is not respectful or civilized, and doesn't have any relevance to chocobo digging.

[Catrina]

You can skill up with "failed" digs if items were there to be dug, but yuo can't skill up while failing in empty zones.

Also, the higher your rank, the items that can give you skill ups are also "high ranked". Digging pebbles (or any low ranked item like that) as a A15 will do zero for your skill ups.

[Forge]

Seriously, in a perfect FFXI, we wouldn't have RMT, neither camping NM's or digging.

Obviously it blows that SE doesn't simply ban the cheaters, but not surprising considering their track record.

I've been digging over 2 years now, and honestly, it made me a lot more furious that the deserts, where it was once possible to get 5 p.stones over10 stacks of greens on a single outing got overrun by RMT. And I love to dig that zone, regarless of rewards in others, this is the one that really appeals to me. I'm glad to see RMT ruined (personal opinion only). And I know that it's extremely easy to find the deserts diggable, which is what I really want to do.


Also, from my experiences with my lv20 mule, level progression seems to be a lot faster in this new system. I only dug 1 day, and I sense that /wait 11 is close. It took me way over a week of solid digging to get this far before.

I like to see the RMTs crumble too, hell Pyihpusaasaa the "legit" digger proven by 10 or so GMs who never leaves west altepa was in battallia downs today. What i dont like to see is RMT crumble at the expense of real people who have put the time and the gil in level up this tedious craft, crumbling with them.

About leveling up digging, many people believe when you dig up 'empty', it doesn't help your skillup. So I think it's possible this might actually make people skill up faster, especially on servers that were most dug up

I don't think anything will ever beat skilling up digging as much as you want in areas like ronfaure and south gustaburg before the patch. ever.

[Vinsent]

Fishing v2

We will be introducing Chocobo digging ranking next version update.

[BRP]

I know this has been said before, but if it is like fishing... doing it everyday and your max will increase a lot. Like if someone stopped fishing for a year, you will notice fatigue kicking your ass, but if you keep at it, you won't feel it. Then again, from what it seems chocobo digging is way more stricter on their system.

[Forge]

I know this has been said before, but if it is like fishing... doing it everyday and your max will increase a lot. Like if someone stopped fishing for a year, you will notice fatigue kicking your ass, but if you keep at it, you won't feel it. Then again, from what it seems chocobo digging is way more stricter on their system.

To compare it to fishing, its like SE saying "you can fish for a total of 20 mins a day, after this you become fatigued. Once you are fatigued you must wait until 12:00am JP time"

They even gave fisherman new items to combat fatigue, am i correct? There's no logic in Square's addition on the digging fatigue, whats the point of an extra +15 mins of riding gear if you cant even dig longer then 20 minutes. Same goes with chocobo wands... if this is not a fluke on Square's behalf i will be very suprised

[genome]

You can skill up with "failed" digs if items were there to be dug, but yuo can't skill up while failing in empty zones.

Also, the higher your rank, the items that can give you skill ups are also "high ranked". Digging pebbles (or any low ranked item like that) as a A15 will do zero for your skill ups.

Yeah I guess I didn't say it as clearly but I meant failed from zone being empty too. It's still a bit of a gray area because it's a little hard to test exactly, supposedly goblin digger dug-in items help speed up leveling, hard to tell for sure (although it seems to make sense that the whole mechanism would be there for more than just a single quest).
If that's true, that's another thing people can try to skill up faster in the new system.
Forge on my server there were a couple of choco-bots that were just digging near bastok (s. and n.gustaberg), very annoying, so it might still depend a little on the server, but yeah I agree with you definitely those areas especially near sandy and windy were great for extensive lower level skillup and that probably won't be an option anymore. That's why i said for some people only it could be easier (ones that were not quite as motivated/able to make very long skillup sessions anyways).

I know this has been said before, but if it is like fishing... doing it everyday and your max will increase a lot. Like if someone stopped fishing for a year, you will notice fatigue kicking your ass, but if you keep at it, you won't feel it. Then again, from what it seems chocobo digging is way more stricter on their system.

That could be interesting. The update note doesn't mention it as 'fatigue' per se (it says "The number of items that can be dug up by each individual player over a certain period of time will be restricted") so who knows, but knowing SE it's likely they could be reusing the same mechanism. Is it the same for mining too?

Also it's possible this fatigue limit increase (if there is one) was set to zero for everyone, which would give even a10 diggers something to 'skill up' again in digging, and again there is still the new chocobos, they at least said you will be able to dig different items, so it's likely it will be a separate limit, and i can imagine different breeds of chocobo could have different limits too.

[Forge]

You can skill up with "failed" digs if items were there to be dug, but yuo can't skill up while failing in empty zones.

Also, the higher your rank, the items that can give you skill ups are also "high ranked". Digging pebbles (or any low ranked item like that) as a A15 will do zero for your skill ups.

Yeah I guess I didn't say it as clearly but I meant failed from zone being empty too. It's still a bit of a gray area because it's a little hard to test exactly, supposedly goblin digger dug-in items help speed up leveling, hard to tell for sure (although it seems to make sense that the whole mechanism would be there for more than just a single quest).

Just thought of another thing that may or may not have anything to do with effecting fatigue. Red Jars, they can't be sold and are 100% useless as far as i know, but they can only be obtained through digging. Maybe filling a mog with these will have some effect?