Chocobo digging hit with a sledgehammer

[Fhqwghads]

It's even worse than the fishing example you gave. It would be more along the lines of "You can fish up a maximum of 100 items, and you have no control over what you fish up. If you happen to fish up 60 rusty buckets, 30 kelp, and 10 sardines, too bad... you're done for 15 hours or more. Oh you have 100 skill in fishing? That's too bad."

[Fhqwghads]

Just thought of another thing that may or may not have anything to do with effecting fatigue. Red Jars, they can't be sold and are 100% useless as far as i know, but they can only be obtained through digging. Maybe filling a mog with these will have some effect?

You can buy red jars in Windurst.

[Forge]

Just thought of another thing that may or may not have anything to do with effecting fatigue. Red Jars, they can't be sold and are 100% useless as far as i know, but they can only be obtained through digging. Maybe filling a mog with these will have some effect?

You can buy red jars in Windurst.

gah! back to the drawing boards i guess

[genome]

Just thought of another thing that may or may not have anything to do with effecting fatigue. Red Jars, they can't be sold and are 100% useless as far as i know, but they can only be obtained through digging. Maybe filling a mog with these will have some effect?

You can buy red jars in Windurst.

gah! back to the drawing boards i guess

I think you are thinking of yellow/white jars?
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4553
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4580
Items sold by merchants can generally be sold back as far as I know.
Even somepage lists red jars as only 'diggable' (if that's a word. If it's not, I want copyright..)
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3671
However they have been around from way before this change and already have a use, 2 storage and fire crafting energy (less chance of losing materials when doing a synth with a fire crystal). So unless they added a new use for them I don't think it would help any (easy to test though).

[aurik]

I'm going to make good use of color codes to illustrate my point

- You don't engage in discussion, you call people who disagree with you "angry" and chide them to "control their temper".
- You claim not to flame people while simultaneously insinuating that they are psychologically unbalanced
- You repeatedly mischaracterise people's arguments in order to frustrate them after they repeatedly attempt correct your model of their argument
- You flat-out ignore valid challenges to your claims and arguments; commonly you deflect these into the next tactic listed
- You "play doctor" with other people's posts to establish a position of superiority
- You repeatedly play the "I'm better than you (because my insults are more stealthy)" card.

My comments are interlaced in the original text as well, in this color.


Genome wrote

On a side note, to hopefully close this sidetrack:
<snip>
You should consider using private messages for these, so you don't derail threads with flames. Here you're saying that you're "better" because you "aren't getting involved in this sidetrack", despite the fact that you were the first one to directly engage me by chiding me about my temper.

What you listed are just your personal feelings and supposed reasons why you feel justified being antagonistic and writing flames. Incorrect. These are patterns in your behavior that I am not alone in noticing. You are playing doctor by saying that these points are figments of my personal feelings

The definition of passive aggressive is not the problem, it's just that you are not using it appropriately here.
Incorrect. As long as you are passively attacking the people who you disagree with (usually by telling them to "calm down", insinuating that they are angry/unbalanced) you are being passively aggressive. You are mischaracterizing the argument by claiming the definition not to fit.

Frustration and aggression, both in the definition, are both applying to your behavior in this thread, not mine.
For example insulting a person by loading an unrelated statement with an implicit insult or attack to that person, that would be an example of passive aggressive behavior.
Sarcasm often goes along with passive aggressive statements, to give a more entertaining example, take http://snltranscripts.jt.org/00/00mpam.phtml Here you are "playing doctor" by diagnosing my posts to be exemplary of the very condition you deny

Now, about your bulletpoints, I think you are twisting my discussion on positive aspects of chocobo changes pretty far.
-I enter in discussion all the times, including in this thread. I made several points of discussion and read and acknowledged every post read in this thread, but then also offered an alternative way to look at it and my personal opinion about how it will impact my fun level. I just keep my arguments insult-free because I don't think personal attacks would be relevant. However, it IS a pattern of behavior that you fail to engage in the discussion by chiding people about "temper". I color this as "ignoring valid challenges" because your bullet-point responses go roughly in-order, yet you totally ignore that point.
-I don't flame people, and I never started a flame. If you start shouting/insulting out of nowhere in a thread when I was talking calmly about chocobos (and not you), I will ask what is your problem. If you continue and get even more out of control for no apparent reason, I will ask what is wrong with you. I think it's only normal to wonder. If you don't want people to wonder why you are acting like you just snapped, don't act like you just snapped. I think that's only reasonable. Here you start off by saying you are guilt-free because you "don't flame", despite loading your posts with barbs such as the one that immediately follows, where you insinuate that I and other people 'just snapped
-You haven't made any claim on my argument about chocobos. Others have brought up interesting points and point of views, and I discussed and acknowledged those. Actually, I did make a point about chocodigging: I said that your version of "fun" was crazy; dedicated diggers are getting raped by the 30-minute limitation, as I said in my post. You're mischaracterizing my argument as a baseless flame here
-I don't put myself in a position of superiority, nor have I ever mentioned anything of the sort in any of my posts. I have never put down someone here, I might have brought up counterexamples to their arguments. I didn't say it's good or bad, or that one person was better than another. It seems unnecessary so I don't do it. I definitely think it can be a petty behavior but I don't judge you or put you down for it, other than objecting to it when you specifically involve me in that. Claiming you are above "petty behavior" insinuates that your opponent is being petty.
On the other hand, you seem to suggest that I am somehow a bad person because I don't insult you and thus I must think I am superior, is an example of you mischaracterizing my points, not the other way around. Yet another mischaracterization.
I think you also want to think about your idea of 'community'. Thanks doctor
I don't have any other problem with you or other people other than these random flames that you started after one post where I just showed some assault data that seemed to irritate you to this extreme. I also want to color this as blue as "I'm better than you because I don't have a problem with you but you seem to have a problem with me." The fact is it's a flat out lie. See your involvement in the rajas-vs-tamas argument, or the multiple arguments on KI, including the one where Rockius showed how you fell out of favor in your HNMLSes after stealing sky equipment, and then when you were outed you trump up some ludicrous charge about him stealthfully switching his name to deflect pressure. I would say that your problems with "random people" is clearly a pattern

Over all the time I played the game, I have seen a handful of other people who maybe liked to get into shout matches too much or developed grudges when people mention some stat or detail about the game they somehow couldn't tolerate to hear. You and these couple other people are a bit too moody for my taste, but I have no problem having a respectful and civilized conversation on game topics, even complimenting them on an interesting discovery or post.
It wouldn't kill you to try a bit harder to do the same, for example without coming out of the blu in the middle of a thread with a flame. You talking about my balls is not respectful or civilized, and doesn't have any relevance to chocobo digging. Refusing to engage my point, instead chiding me on my choice of analogies

[Forge]

on a good note (i guess) JP digger friend told me he dug up adaman ore and orach ore in the 2 new areas today, not that it really matters since there arent enough stacks to dig in rolanberry AND the 2 areas outside alzabi in one days time... lol /fume

EDIT: wow aurich, i refreshed my page, looked at your post, and thought my graphics card had shitted out on me or something.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Damnit aurik, I'm sure that's hilarious, but I just can't read it

[Catrina]

I'm an old lady, can't read it either


I just did my daily digging run, well timed it, and got 3 p.stones out of it. I was content enough, since it wasn't the only things I got. 'd say that almost 500k in items for 30 mins of timed digging is decent enough nowadays, considering the heavy competition. Elemental ore is another story, but it's too early, they may tweak it if enough people complain.


I'm still testing my other toon, I'll let you know how skill ups go. Still early, but going well so far. I really don't expect skill ups to be as slow as everyone is fearing. t's been 3 days, it will take a while until we see full effect, such as people trying to skill up, RMT having no more stock to flood market with. All I can really say is that I'll be watching, since nor I nor no one else knows for sure.


Again, I don't really like new system but at least it can't be exploited y cheaters. And many people weren't getting all that much before update, zones were simply too dug out. And I mean it can't be exploited by anyone, since game will freeze treasure pool after you're fatigued. Beats the hell out of the abuse of bot fishing items, where they still flood the market.


I'd say to all to have some patience and test your own limits and skill up rate first before fearing the worst.


(Edited for some clarification)

[Fhqwghads]

I'd probably be more optomistic if this wasn't day #3 where I dug up jack shit. This change is not good, I don't care how you slice it.

[Catrina]

There are some things you should/have to watch out for when digging right now. There's no point in trying to outdig other diggers, or trying to dig right after one left zone, even if SE says that no one can empty treasure pool. I'm pretty sure it's still shared.

Also, out of curiosity, what's your level and where did you try to dig?

[Fhqwghads]

Heh, unless you know who every digger is on your server, it's pretty near impossible to know if someone else is digging in the zone.

I'm A20 and it was Rolanberry fields tonight, last night pathed from Rolanberry -> Tahronghi, and same with the night before. All 3 times I netted a few goldbeastcoins, and one night I got an adaman. Not even 150K total for the past 3 days worth of digging. Like I said, this change sucks. Maybe your server doesn't have as many active diggers or something, or you're just getting lucky.

[Catrina]

Well, when I was a heavy digger I kept a list of diggers hen again that's just me. (And yes, I still write in my notebook the name of anyone I spot digging, or anyone I see messing with greens vendor, as possible diggers, and I also try to see what level they are). And I macro searches for the good areas to see who's around.

Even now I know rather well how to spot them.

A20... I'd dig the deserts if I were you. Rola. Fields and gold road has too much of jackpot factor/feel into it (especially Rola fields, obviously. The coins there are rarer than in any zone, not to mention the Orich. ore).

Oh, and Asura is crawling with diggers.

EDITS +1 for grammar/spelling/etc

[Ryko]

Aurik's last post = win (when you care to read it it's priceless)

[Siatdiat]

I dont care to read it, Im still wondering why Aurik sweats Genomes nuts so bad. I think Genomes posts are 99% faggotry so I just ignore them. From the looks of things Aurik has nightmares about Genome. Rate down.

[Norelco]

Yeah but Aurik sort of makes a valid point.

SE could have just banned the RMT diggers. Instead, they chose to just fuck over an entire craft. This is equal to taking a craft such as cloth crafting, and making it so after 10 synths you just start critical failing until the following day.

The only positive thing I can pull out of this is that those dirty asshole RMT diggers on Asura weren't online when I searched for them: Palmery, Deger, and Smally.

And even then, what if they get wise, make 20 toons, and just move onto the next one when the previous one gets fatigued?

[Devek]

And even then, what if they get wise, make 20 toons, and just move onto the next one when the previous one gets fatigued?

SE makes 20 times as much money per RMT digger?

I always thought RMT diggers were kind of good for the economy.. they spend gil on greens to a NPC which takes gil out of the economy while at the same time put up ores/staves on the AH which gave more to buy with the gil in the economy, helping to cause deflation.

[Machazareel]

Yeah, I'm not really looking forward to a price hike on ore prices myself. Staves are my main income, and while the price of staves will of course go up again, I'm not looking forward to going back to the christmas prices of 3mill per ore when I usually crank out 24 staves per moon. >_>

[Norelco]

Yeah, I'm not really looking forward to a price hike on ore prices myself. Staves are my main income, and while the price of staves will of course go up again, I'm not looking forward to going back to the christmas prices of 3mill per ore when I usually crank out 24 staves per moon. >_>

How much elemental ore do you guys actually think comes from digging? Not much. The moon phase that allows you to dig up elemental ore only happens every couple of days. I'd say that the bulk of ores comes from gardening. Don't expect the elemental ore market to start inflating as much as you think it might.

[Snarg]

Are there many diggers that don't have an overwhelming fire energy from their mog house?

[Thistle]

Are there many diggers that don't have an overwhelming fire energy from their mog house?

I had to finally toss all my jars for space. That was a sad, sad day.