Chocobo digging hit with a sledgehammer

[Forge]

psst you dont have to go telling lowbies that, you can just PM us high lvls in the thread >.>' lol

[Catrina]

My bad

[Forge]

maybe i'll get to A10 sooner (lolyarite)

[Fhqwghads]

Keep in mind that digging never was directly related to #stacks in order to level. #stacks varies highly from person to person, mostly due to digging conditions (more dug up areas = more stacks used.) My feeling is you level by either digging something up that's at or above your current level, or occasionally by failing a dig when there are items to dig up.

With that in mind, with the new update you'll level faster as you'll have more items to dig since there's less diggers. At first it will seem like a great idea, until you get to the higher levels where the number of items you need to dig to skill up becomes larger and larger. At only 100 items a day, at high levels it's going to take for-freakin'-ever toget a level.

[Catrina]

SE can and does adjust likely skill up rate for everything. I'm pretty sure, both from commom sense and my own experience, that they did so in this case to offset the digging limitations.

By capping daily digging runs by successes, it means that among those chances, they are likely to have adjusted for a more favorable skill up rate.

Oh and it does take forever at the last levels, it was like that in the old system, I was A15 for months, I'm sure it will still take months to go from A15 to A10.

[dietvanillapepsi]

Glad u guys liked my ideas 8)


I'm pretty dissapointed in the new areas. Seems like the rare stuff is just logs, like we need any of those. Since the rng nerf, nobody lvls up WW anymore. We needed more areas that drop ores.

[Catrina]

Some people say that there are good ores as ultra rare items in new areas, but I'm not gonna spend my daily qouta to find out.


(Well, in Asura, I can't anyway, our chocobo NPC is a prisoner, still, lol)

[Forge]

yea you can get a certain ore that starts with an O in the new areas... all you diggers know what i mean.

[Drona]

I have not leveled digging but I craft a lot and am interested in the economy and such things that SE implements to change it.

That there would be a dramatic change to Chocobo digging eventually was blatantly obvious to anyone that understands game design and has a clue about what SE is up too based on their other adjustments.

I speculate that choco digging wasnt changed before simply because they have been busy dealing with other issues and that SE has short staffed this game.

Chocobo digging version 1 was obviously a very poor design from the perspective of keeping a game going that needs to continually add new players. Any new player should have at least a chance to compete with established players even though we all know that this varies dramatically from craft to craft.

In the case of chocobo diging, the advantage the old system gave to early adoptors was....

ABSOLUTELY FREAKING RIDICULOUSLY ENORMOUS.

It had to be changed, you guys had your advantage, made some good gil now shut the fuck up about how your ff life is ruined. The current system is a huge improvement for the game overall.

The selfishness of Chococomplainer Forge is illustrated by his earlier comment:

"I'd rather have more RMT and this fatigue taken away, because before the patch i could make a ton more money with RMT diggers in the zone then without them and with a fatigue in effect."

Sorry asshole, you lose, the rest of us dont need RMT so you can make some easy money, WTF are you thinking.

[BRP]

Drona, shut up, god.

[Fhqwghads]

You haven't even leveled digging, therefore you have no clue wtf you're talking about. Like BRP said, shut the fuck up. Anyone who was remotely serious about chocobo digging has already started it. Also, I started it late in the game, and I still managed to get A20 (and would have gotten higher if SE hadn't implemented this stupid change.)

Your point about digging have a huge disparity between high level diggers and low level diggers is retarded. Every craft has a huge gap between high and low levels as far as what they can accomplish. If people wanted to level digging bad enough, they found ways to do it. This new system is the same as restricting all levels of a craft to only being able to synth around 100 items a day. Only throw in the fact that the items you synth will be completely random, and that other crafters in the zone might have already synthed a few HQ items, and the zone only allows for a few HQ. Now maybe you can comprehend why diggers are so pissed off. If you can't understand, then just piss off.

[Minions]

He deserves more flaming. Let more flaming comense.

[Reynard]

i understand why the high level diggers are pissed, but I still disagree. This is a good change for game balance. I like digging, but more like as something to do as I'm chocoing somewhere anyway. I get 3 or 4 stacks of greens and dig, hopefully pull up a few decent items, then move on with what I really am trying to get done. I think this is what SE intended. Under the old system, unless you spammed dig for hours, you basically could never get ahead by just going from A to B. It is very frustating to get nothing but misses and flint stones time and time again. While you cant dig all day and get rich, more people now have the incentive to do a little digging on the side as they get to sky or the dunes or whatever. The A10 people will still be the ones snagging the expensive ores, and who knows what the new chocos will open up. i say good.

[Norelco]

i understand why the high level diggers are pissed, but I still disagree. This is a good change for game balance. I like digging, but more like as something to do as I'm chocoing somewhere anyway. I get 3 or 4 stacks of greens and dig, hopefully pull up a few decent items, then move on with what I really am trying to get done. I think this is what SE intended. Under the old system, unless you spammed dig for hours, you basically could never get ahead by just going from A to B. It is very frustating to get nothing but misses and flint stones time and time again. While you cant dig all day and get rich, more people now have the incentive to do a little digging on the side as they get to sky or the dunes or whatever. The A10 people will still be the ones snagging the expensive ores, and who knows what the new chocos will open up. i say good.

You don't seem to understand. How would you like it if you dumped millions of gil and hours of your time into a craft and were then told you are limited on how much you can do it?

Imagine the uproar there would be if SE all of a sudden told crafters they could only synth 10 items per day before they became fatigued? People would piss themselves and then quit.

People chose digging because it's something they can stand doing for hours and make money while doing it. It's essentially a craft, and SE just nerfed the fuck out of it.

[Cuer]

All the arguments against changing Chocobo Digging, could have been (and were) made for the Fishing fatigue that was put in a while back.

Both systems were horribly designed when the game was made, in that they let nearly infinite amount of items (and therefore gil) into the economy. Both were initially designed to be little extra mini-games for people to do for fun; of course, as with anything else in the game, when people realized how profitable they were, they became something that were done "for hours and make money while doing it."

Nothing in the game should be set up that way; it's how game economies get screwed up badly. (See also, Rusty Cap fishing.)

Now, as for how the change was implemented... as with almost any other nerf, S-E generally makes changes with a very large nerf bat. Hopefully the Chocobo Raising will mitigate some of that, so that people who want to have a chocobo that is good at digging (as opposed to being faster, or whatever other bonuses they provide) can end up digging more than currently. But as for the change itself, it was very necessary to support chocobo digging with thousands of people on a server at once, when the game and these mini-games were designed around having fewer players, who didn't play everything to the extreme that MMOG players currently do.

[Kaylia]

Both systems were horribly designed when the game was made, in that they let nearly infinite amount of items (and therefore gil) into the economy.

>_> Unless I don't understand digging, explain me how it add infinte amount of gil in the economy.


You pay 1200 gil for a stack of green, dig 100gil worth of bone chip (not that you vendor them anyway) and sometime, a rare material you sell on the AH. No gil is created through that.

Fishing: You fish a rusty cap using item you rarely lose, craft them into a padded cap and sell them at a vendor to add 2-3k into the economy. You repeat this for 3 week to add millions worth of money.


It's true both are flawed, but digging doesnt let infinite money into the economy. In the worst case, it will debalance the price of certain item (digged item price drop, letting people spend more money on other item)

[Cuer]

It's true that chocobo digging wasn't nearly as broken as fishing. The main reason is because of the hard caps on items obtained from a specific zone, when it became all "dug up". Also, as you mention, there is at least some gil going out of the economy for each green, which balances a lot; fishing was (is) a one-way street in that regard.

Overall, tho, it was still broken, if not to the same degree; some items were sold to NPCs. On a broader scale of trying to service the needs of the entire game, chocobo digging was set up in such a way that only a very small number of people could quickly get the good items. Presumably with the larger pools of items but caps on each player, it will be spread around a bit more.

In general, it seems pretty obvious that SE doesn't want players to spend 4+ hours each day, every day, doing a specific mini-game activity, whether that activity is fishing, chocobo digging, mining, Assaults, etc. The only areas you're allowed to spend massive amounts of time on, are either getting xp, or waiting for HNMs to pop. :wink:

[Norelco]

Both systems were horribly designed when the game was made, in that they let nearly infinite amount of items (and therefore gil) into the economy.

>_> Unless I don't understand digging, explain me how it add infinte amount of gil in the economy.


You pay 1200 gil for a stack of green, dig 100gil worth of bone chip (not that you vendor them anyway) and sometime, a rare material you sell on the AH. No gil is created through that.

Fishing: You fish a rusty cap using item you rarely lose, craft them into a padded cap and sell them at a vendor to add 2-3k into the economy. You repeat this for 3 week to add millions worth of money.


It's true both are flawed, but digging doesnt let infinite money into the economy. In the worst case, it will debalance the price of certain item (digged item price drop, letting people spend more money on other item)

You got to this before I did. You can't dig up gil. LOL.

[klvino]

In the case of chocobo diging, the advantage the old system gave to early adoptors was....

ABSOLUTELY FREAKING RIDICULOUSLY ENORMOUS.

To a point that is true Drona, but you still clearly don't know what you're talking about. Chocobo digging has been active since ffxi release, JPN players had a full year or more head start over almost anyone on this board, including the A10s and A20s. How did the people here make it to A20 and higher? Through work by finding a way to level even with bot diggers, RMT diggers, and JPN LS's team digging zones. So to say it's hard to level up digging is true and not true. Everyone on this board worked hard to get there, but you don't feel it necessary to work hard to accomplish anything, so sure let me bend over and take it in the ass so some noob-fucktard won't have to work as hard as me. Go ahead and stick it in, you already said you wanted to.

So now with these changes, let me fit it into my daily schedule to dig for 30 minutes a day. That's asinine since not everyone plays everyday, so the argument that this is to nerf powergamers is invalid. The only time I dig is when I'm on the road travelling and the only net connection I can get is dialup, so even infrequent digging before can make you a high level digger, you just have to learn not to be a greedy bitch starting out if you want to make it there.

There are at most only three legitimate reasons for this change, and I haven't found any "pro-change" people on this forum who have stated what they are or even made a wild guess close enough. Until they can name all three of them, then their posts are just noob-aggro.

[Reynard]

i understand why the high level diggers are pissed, but I still disagree. This is a good change for game balance. I like digging, but more like as something to do as I'm chocoing somewhere anyway. I get 3 or 4 stacks of greens and dig, hopefully pull up a few decent items, then move on with what I really am trying to get done. I think this is what SE intended. Under the old system, unless you spammed dig for hours, you basically could never get ahead by just going from A to B. It is very frustating to get nothing but misses and flint stones time and time again. While you cant dig all day and get rich, more people now have the incentive to do a little digging on the side as they get to sky or the dunes or whatever. The A10 people will still be the ones snagging the expensive ores, and who knows what the new chocos will open up. i say good.

You don't seem to understand. How would you like it if you dumped millions of gil and hours of your time into a craft and were then told you are limited on how much you can do it?

People chose digging because it's something they can stand doing for hours and make money while doing it. It's essentially a craft, and SE just nerfed the fuck out of it.

lol, no I totally understand. And I see why you are pissed. I just disagree with your opinion. OMG.

And its not really a craft, its just a mini-game that was poorly implemented and left unchecked far too long that nets you lucrative items when taken to the extremes. Many chose to exploit the poor design and capitalize on it, but it was definietly imbalanced. The fatigue only impacts the fulltime riders, not the people riding back and forth because they want to get their faster have something to do while riding, which was the intended point of digging I think. Now you might make a small buck on the way somewhere, and those that do it more get stuff like oricalchum. Oh no, i spent 20 minutes and dig up 330K. woe is you. This patch helps people like me, who is like level 2 or 3 digger from a stack here and there for 2.5 years, and most other people on the server that didnt go hog wild spending all their weekends tapping a macro for hours on end. Sorry you spent a lot of time you regret now, but this system sounds much more balanced for everyone to enjoy it, not just you and the RMTs.