Chocobo digging hit with a sledgehammer

[Forge]

It had to be changed, you guys had your advantage, made some good gil now shut the fuck up about how your ff life is ruined. The current system is a huge improvement for the game overall.

The selfishness of Chococomplainer Forge is illustrated by his earlier comment:

"I'd rather have more RMT and this fatigue taken away, because before the patch i could make a ton more money with RMT diggers in the zone then without them and with a fatigue in effect."

Sorry asshole, you lose, the rest of us dont need RMT so you can make some easy money, WTF are you thinking.

Just stfu, before you go calling out someone for being "selfish" and "wanting RMT" read the posts below where most other diggers agreed with me. Any high level digger with half of a brain has learned to adapt with RMT and still make good money. You dont even understand what you are talking about. RMT diggers arent like regular RMT campers, what the chocobo patch did to diggers was equal to making a patch for campers saying, "RMT are only able to camp 1 monster a day, but regular players can only camp 1 NM too..." Realy, before you go singaling someone else out for being selfish and complaining over something you don't even have any knowledge about, take into consideration that at the lowest 80% of the digging community is pissed off at this change aswell.

EDit: woot pg 9

[Catrina]

Not everyone wishes to adapt and dig on uncapitalized zones, I still prefer to be able to dig the deserts, hands down.

On my server there were no less than 4 RMT in the deserts at all times in the end, it was simply undiggable by regular players, A10 or not.

Of course, we wouldn't be having this debate if SE implemented a code to flag and eventually ban all accounts inputting active commands to the server 24/7 (thus not affecting AFK people)

Of course I don't like to be able to dig so little time a day, but at least I can enjoy the time that I'm digging, and not cursing for not being able to dig where I like. And I can still net good cash for such little effort. I liked even less of it feeling like a job, and being at constant war for the very few zones that they were unwilling to keep dry, and having no choice but to try to dig stuff I wasn't personaly interested in getting. Heck, for my daily effort I net about 500k in items, it used to take me a few hours of intense struggle/competition to get as much.

And honestly, while A20's may think it's bad, A20 or higher is hardly considered "high level". It took me 2x the time it took to get to A20, in order to reach A10.

[Fhqwghads]

lol, no I totally understand. And I see why you are pissed. I just disagree with your opinion. OMG.

Crafting is just a mini-game that was poorly implemented and left unchecked far too long that nets you lucrative items when taken to the extremes. Many chose to exploit the poor design and capitalize on it, but it was definietly imbalanced. The fatigue only impacts the fulltime crafters, not the people synthing a few small items here and there, which was the intended point of crafting I think. Now you might make a small buck on the way somewhere, and those that do it more make stuff like a Haubergeon+1. Oh no, i spent 2 minutes and and made 12,000,000. woe is you. This patch helps people like me, who is like level 20 or 30 crafter from a synth here and there for 2.5 years, and most other people on the server that didnt go hog wild spending all their weekends synthing for hours on end. Sorry you spent a lot of time you regret now, but this system sounds much more balanced for everyone to enjoy it, not just you and the RMTs.

Now that I fixed your post, maybe you can see that every single bullet point you made can be applied to crafting. Crafting and chocobo digging are the EXACT SAME fucking thing. They are a time sink with levels, that in the end reward people who invested their time with larger returns on their investment than people who spent a minimal amount of time. Or at least used to.

Imagine how many people would go ape-shit if SE suddenly decided to level the playing field across all craft levels? Oh sure, all the low-level casual crafters would have an attitude just like yours. "Wah, you spent all that time leveling the craft, but this is a good change, now I can start at level 1 and not have to worry about the market being flooded by items from high level crafters." Yeah right... piss off.

[Cuer]

Crafting takes raw materials that cost thousands to millions of gil, to have a chance at making another item, that hopefully has more value than the cost. Chocobo digging takes a few 61 gil Gysahl Greens, to dig up something that is always worth more. Of course, if you're trying to level up, you blow millions of gil in crafting, whereas in chocobo digging you have a chance at getting at least something more valuable, each time you dig. Comparing the two is rather silly, but if you're going to, it certainly takes much less gil to get to max in chocobo digging than it does to get to 100+3 in a craft.

Does this hurt a small number of elite chocobo diggers, who did it fanatically to make a lot of gil? Absolutely. Does it make the mini-game more feasible for the majority of players? Absolutely. It's not hard to see why SE decided to go with the change.

[genome]

Crafting is just a mini-game that was poorly implemented and left unchecked far too long that nets you lucrative items when taken to the extremes. Many chose to exploit the poor design and capitalize on it, but it was definietly imbalanced. The fatigue only impacts the fulltime riders, not the people riding back and forth because they want to get their faster have something to do while riding, which was the intended point of digging I think.

I just wanted to mention you actually don't move any faster than walking if you are digging while using a chocobo. It's also much easier to semi-afk while riding instead of digging and having to restart running every few seconds.
Generally you don't get to dig while going places because you don't want to make people wait on you too long.
For most people I think digging is something you do while waiting on xp or in general as a side distraction/gilmaker/skillup, just like fishing, and just like crafting. All 3 could be considered minigames as you call it in this sense. All 3 are imbalanced with lucrative items when taken to the extremes (mercurial items, +1s etc).
Leveling up a craft the way it was probably intended initially doesn't need to cost anything, farming materials for free+xp and then using a craft to convert them to more easy to sell form while getting skillups. Early on in the game I got most of my crafts to 60 at no loss and a bit of gain even buying materials from AH, not being in a hurry (although that changes for most crafts over 60 and people wise up with selling materials higher than the synth results now).

Again I don't mind the change too much, and I see a lot of positives with it too. I still think it will probably be adjusted again, 100 items seems a bit too round and arbitrary, plus breeding chocobo might add another change on top of these limits.

But I want to say that I think digging was a very legitimate activity on par with crafting or mining even before this change. If you don't agree, that's ok, but you probably don't want to gloat too much, in case they decide to nerf crafting next, like
"you get only 1 HQ a week, and can't control when they happen. If you try to repeat the same synth a few times, you fatigue that synth and will never HQ it this week! If you HQed a pineapple juice by mistake while xping, again no more HQ for you until next week!"
I hope I didn't give SE any evil ideas to actually nerf crafting this way..

[Excalin Garisk]

I have been considering starting up digging for something to do while im at work running/waiting on test to complete and doing homework (yeah I like to multi task like nothing else). It does seem they gimped digging quite a bit, but in the long run Im hoping that the fatigue factor is just because it is a stable chocobo and that fatigue will be a "skill" that can be raised on your personal chocobo. I believe other threads mentioned fractured updates where parts are not all in the same update as intended.

[Reynard]

Crafting and chocobo digging are the EXACT SAME fucking thing. They are a time sink with levels, that in the end reward people who invested their time with larger returns on their investment than people who spent a minimal amount of time. Or at least used to.

lol. not.

Crafting has a huge potential for loss, uses expensive materials that are at risk every time, takes time to research, and you have to lose alot to skill up to be able to make more back later. Digging is not like that at all. You use cheap ass items that are paid for by one good dig, you do the same thing over and over and over and over, with the potential to net millions for basically mashing one macro for hours. I won't deny it was a time sink. but if its gradual profit every step of the way, yeah, not like crafting. I'm a lvl69+2 goldsmith. look at the skillup synths i have available to me to continue and tell me digging is anything like it. In fact, goldsmiths scraping together gil to /toss for skillups are the main buyers for your digger schwag. AND very unlike crafting, the cap on the loot pool didnt scale as more people took it up, which is the real game-design issue. Digging was able to be monopolized to a large degree, crafting is more like the free market. Your logic fails. Again, i hear what the complainers are saying, but guess what, I DONT AGREE WITH YOU.

Its so blatant that you are just pissed as you exploited what was clearly broken and now you cant as much. You can still make arguably the most painless and risk free easy money in a short amount of time and have an advantage over those less hardcore like me, you just cant do it hours on end anymore. And like others have said, its easier to dig where you want to now. There are silver linings, and dedicated diggers still have advantages. Go make a constructive post on ANYTHING and add some value to the community rather than just being angry MS PAINT galka with a sailor's mouth that is all pissy since SE took away his blankey.

yall talk about 80%+ of the digging "community" being pissed at the change. Thats because the "community" was like 10 legit people and a bunch of bots, because it was so broken no one else can compete or enjoy the system. I'm a "digger" as i like to buy greens and do it sometimes, and there are more diggers like me than diggers like you whiners. All of you complaining so loudly and rudely ARE selfish, as you are unable to admit that the system was broken (more so than most broken things in this game, of which there are many) and the change is better for the game as a whole and a majority of the thousands you interact with on your server, its just not better for you. flame away. Can't knock the truth.

[Fhqwghads]

Crafting takes raw materials that cost thousands to millions of gil, to have a chance at making another item, that hopefully has more value than the cost. Chocobo digging takes a few 61 gil Gysahl Greens, to dig up something that is always worth more. Of course, if you're trying to level up, you blow millions of gil in crafting, whereas in chocobo digging you have a chance at getting at least something more valuable, each time you dig. Comparing the two is rather silly, but if you're going to, it certainly takes much less gil to get to max in chocobo digging than it does to get to 100+3 in a craft.

There's no arguing that taking a craft to high levels costs more gil than digging. It does, however, take a whole hell of a lot longer. The reward for having the patience to dig for ungodly numbers of hours is in the end getting some decent items. The reward in crafting is having the chance to HQ an item that potentially sells for multiple millions of gil. You never dig up a multi-million gil item while digging, so there's an offset in the two crafts. One has high gil/level ratio, and in the end gives you the reward of making millions of gil in one shot, or with digging it has high time/medicore gil rewards as you spend countless hours running around digging up fucking bone chips and pebbles, but in the end you have the chance at digging up stuff that sells for hundreds of thousands of gil.

Does this hurt a small number of elite chocobo diggers, who did it fanatically to make a lot of gil? Absolutely. Does it make the mini-game more feasible for the majority of players? Absolutely. It's not hard to see why SE decided to go with the change.

And that's the pivotal issue. Why is it that suddenly my time, which I value, has been negated to the point that it's virtually worthless just because digging was the craft I decided to level? One could easily argue that people are fanatical who take a given craft to 100+3, and I would most certainly sympathize and side with those crafters if SE did something equally fucking stupid to nerf their craft as they did to digging. Using logic like "it makes the mini-game more feasible for the majority of the players" is flawed, because crafting would be just as feasible for the majority of players if SE limited synthing of any recipe to only 100 per day per crafter. I'm sure I don't need to go into details on how this would make it extremely easy for low-level crafters to progress through a craft, and how it would be equally unfair to the crafters who sunk their time and gil into it to reach high levels.

There is no disparity between digging and any other craft, because they all require determination and patience to get to high levels. Apparently SE doesn't see it that way, and that's why myself and many other diggers are extremely annoyed.

[Fhqwghads]

Crafting has a huge potential for loss, uses expensive materials that are at risk every time, takes time to research, and you have to lose alot to skill up to be able to make more back later. Digging is not like that at all. You use cheap ass items that are paid for by one good dig, you do the same thing over and over and over and over, with the potential to net millions for basically mashing one macro for hours. I won't deny it was a time sink. but if its gradual profit every step of the way, yeah, not like crafting. I'm a lvl69+2 goldsmith. look at the skillup synths i have available to me to continue and tell me digging is anything like it. In fact, goldsmiths scraping together gil to /toss for skillups are the main buyers for your digger schwag. AND very unlike crafting, the cap on the loot pool didnt scale as more people took it up, which is the real game-design issue. Digging was able to be monopolized to a large degree, crafting is more like the free market. Your logic fails. Again, i hear what the complainers are saying, but guess what, I DONT AGREE WITH YOU.

I just posted how there are parallels between the two. Crafting has higher gil risk, digging takes umpteen billion times longer to skill on. Digging took an insane amount of patience to get anywhere in. Crafting? You have enough gil, you can cap it fast in comparison to digging. There are no shortcuts in digging. You invest the time and were rewarded with being able to dig up some fairly decent items. Am I supposed to be more sympathetic because you took up the most expensive craft in the game? Somehow that makes your argument stronger than mine because it has a high cost in gil attached to it? Wrong. When it's all said and done, should you ever take goldsmithing to the cap, you will be rolling in tens of millions of gil a week. It took me almost 3 months of steady digging to dig up around 8 million or so. When I say steadily digging, I mean 6-8 hours a day, every day. Tell me you do that while crafting. I dare you. (Collecting mats doesn't count.)

Digging in certain areas was difficult, just like... oh I dunno, trying to synth something way out of your range is next to impossible. What's your point? You want to compete with the big boys, you better be in the same league. Makes perfect sense to me. Apparently you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Its so blatant that you are just pissed as you exploited what was clearly broken and now you cant as much. You can still make arguably the most painless and risk free easy money in a short amount of time and have an advantage over those less hardcore like me, you just cant do it hours on end anymore. And like others have said, its easier to dig where you want to now. There are silver linings, and dedicated diggers still have advantages. Go make a constructive post on ANYTHING and add some value to the community rather than just being angry MS PAINT galka with a sailor's mouth that is all pissy since SE took away his blankey.

Clearly broken that it took them almost 4 years to "fix" it, huh? Try again, Einstein. The only reason why this was even changed was so they could add some value to chocobo raising, if you want a better guess as to why they made the changes they did (and I don't care if you want a better guess or not, you're getting it anyway.)

In reference to digging where I want and making all this wonderful money in a short period of time: what world are you living in? I have 100 chances to dig up maybe, if I am EXTREMELY lucky, an Orichalcum Ore. 180K is good money for a whole day??? Please tell me your brain shutdown on you when you typed what you did. The changes have made digging nothing but a joke when it comes to earning any decent gil from it. I've dug up 1 O.ore in the time since the update. That means 99% of the time I am out there digging up a few gold beastcoins here and there. If things go well, I might even get a stack after 3 or 4 days of digging. In the world I come from, that amounts to two things as far as making any sort of decent gil: jack and shit.

As far as your snide comments about my anger and MS paint signature, I don't think you have any room to talk with your faggoty juggalo wanna-be picture. Go take your retarded opinion and lame-ass ICP shit somewhere else, loser.

yall talk about 80%+ of the digging "community" being pissed at the change. Thats because the "community" was like 10 legit people and a bunch of bots, because it was so broken no one else can compete or enjoy the system. I'm a "digger" as i like to buy greens and do it sometimes, and there are more diggers like me than diggers like you whiners. All of you complaining so loudly and rudely ARE selfish, as you are unable to admit that the system was broken (more so than most broken things in this game, of which there are many) and the change is better for the game as a whole and a majority of the thousands you interact with on your server, its just not better for you. flame away. Can't knock the truth.

You weren't a digger. You occasionally went out and tried to dig in areas you were clearly not leveled to try and dig in. Your comment and the numbers and percentages you're pulling out of your ass confirms you have no clue wtf you're talking about. Now you want to come here and point and laugh like a 13 year old retard, since you think you might have a shot at digging now. Wrong again. Unless you're high level you STILL can't dig up jack shit, and good luck on getting those high priced items because on my server at least, all the areas that gave anything good are STILL dug up. Fat fucking lot of good your logic and this update did for digging. Moron. So much for your "truth."

It's truly laughable how you're going to come in here and say that people who are dissatisfied with this change are "whining" when we're the ones who basically lost everything we'd worked for in this update. Fuck you and your self-righteous attitude. I hope they nerf the hell out of goldsmithing just so I can see how "whiny" you get.

[Forge]

ok ok, seems like Fhqwghads has gotten most of the key points, time for me to take a swing at this.

Crafting has a huge potential for loss, uses expensive materials that are at risk every time, takes time to research, and you have to lose alot to skill up to be able to make more back later. Digging is not like that at all. You use cheap ass items that are paid for by one good dig, you do the same thing over and over and over and over, with the potential to net millions for basically mashing one macro for hours. I won't deny it was a time sink. but if its gradual profit every step of the way, yeah, not like crafting. I'm a lvl69+2 goldsmith.

where digging lacks the need for huge capital to skill up, it makes up for in time. ask any A10 how long it took them to reach the top, they wont give you an estimate in months they'll tell you in years.

yall talk about 80%+ of the digging "community" being pissed at the change. Thats because the "community" was like 10 legit people and a bunch of bots, because it was so broken no one else can compete or enjoy the system. I'm a "digger" as i like to buy greens and do it sometimes, and there are more diggers like me than diggers like you whiners.

Really don't know what the hell your talking about here.. It May be different on your server but i can give a rough estimate of about 50 diggers i know of on Gilgamesh server that are A20-A10, from that list about 3 of them are RMT and just off the top of my head i think thats 6-7%, so obviously you have no clue. Btw im a "goldsmither" too as i like t o buy crystals and craft stuff using my goldsmithing skill, im only lvl18 but it definatly gives me the right to talk about it as if i were actually skilled in the craft. 80% was at the "very least"

EDit:

You weren't a digger. You occasionally went out and tried to dig in areas you were clearly not leveled to try and dig in. Your comment and the numbers and percentages you're pulling out of your ass confirms you have no clue wtf you're talking about.

"LOL im gonna start up digging, dunno whats good its all the same level, since im here in lower jeuno i'll just try digging in rolanberry! hey this sucks i can't dig up anything i wonder why, i'll send a report to SE saying that digging is broken.lawl"

[Machazareel]

The time it takes to acquire said capital for crafting takes alot of time as well. Took me almost two years to cap woodworking. Sure, if you have infinite gil you can cap a craft fairly quickly, but you don't. You have to work alot to make the money to cap it off, especially since in the later levels, alot of that gil is essentially thrown away. So no, there isn't a place where the two balance out.

[Viq]

Anyone else think Fhqwghads is a total Flux wannabe?

[Fhqwghads]

The time it takes to acquire said capital for crafting takes alot of time as well. Took me almost two years to cap woodworking. Sure, if you have infinite gil you can cap a craft fairly quickly, but you don't. You have to work alot to make the money to cap it off, especially since in the later levels, alot of that gil is essentially thrown away. So no, there isn't a place where the two balance out.

If it took you two years to cap WW, then you took your time and weren't going at it hardcore. When we say it takes years to get A10 digging, we're not talking a dig here and there, we're talking consistently digging for hours on end, day in, day out. Yes, the two crafts do balance out in terms of effort.

(80 WW btw, so I know most of what it takes to get into higher levels of WW, and no, I didn't use what I dug to fund my crafting. I didn't start digging until after I was 80 WW.)

[freddiepines]

100 Fishing and Woodworking.

The number one reason SE nerfed Digging is the same reason they nerfed Fishing: bots. As a legitimate fisher i was pissed they nerfed fishing, and if I were a digger I'd be pissed as well. Guess it's the lesser of two evils in the end; let 24/7 diggers/fishers get ahead, or nerf it all to hell. Bullshit any way you look at it I suppose.

[NynJa]

You don't seem to understand. How would you like it if you dumped millions of gil and hours of your time into a craft and were then told you are limited on how much you can do it?

You'll get my sympathy when you prep 30+++ mil worth of materials, spend 30 minutes crafting, only to get a bunch of NQ's...and thus lose 30 mil in 30 minutes.



You want sympathy ?? A diggers "synth" costs 70 fucking gil, and you can "synth" any time you want with an equal chance to "HQ" no matter when they "synth". A Crafters synth costs A LOT MORE THAN 70 GIL, and a crafters best chance of HQ only happens for 1 hour every...three days ?? Not sure on the three days thing.



YOU WANT SYMPATHY FOR THAT ?? CHOCOBO DIGGING HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRACTICALLY RISK FREE METHOD OF MAKING MONEY, AND YOU"RE BITCHING BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY DO IT FOR LIKE 3 HOURS EVERY DAY INSTEAD OF BOTTING IT ALL DAY LONG.
http://www.bradt.com/j3/gallery/will...ges/bucket.jpg
Take a guess at what to do with that.

[Degenxerate]

This update on the digging was really good for the casual digger, which is probably what the majority of diggers are.

Personally i love digging, and i love this update. It's not to be able to go out into zones and not see 6 RMT bots running in a cirlce spamming dig. Also its nice to be able to actually dig stuff up instead of the rmt's getting everything in the small pool. For me, before, it seemed like i was permamantly fatigued just because of all the bots spamming all the areas.
But now its nice, can actually go out for a bit and get some stuff. It's not 24/7 digging but its still nice, you can almost say you are garenteed to make out as opposed to the 3 bone chips and 2 pebbles that you would get before.

[Forge]

YOU WANT SYMPATHY FOR THAT ?? CHOCOBO DIGGING HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRACTICALLY RISK FREE METHOD OF MAKING MONEY, AND YOU"RE BITCHING BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY DO IT FOR LIKE 20 MINUTES EVERY DAY INSTEAD OF BOTTING IT ALL DAY LONG.

fixed, nice try though

You want sympathy ?? A diggers "synth" costs 70 fucking gil, and you can "synth" any time you want with an equal chance to "HQ" no matter when they "synth". A Crafters synth costs A LOT MORE THAN 70 GIL, and a crafters best chance of HQ only happens for 1 hour every...three days ?? Not sure on the three days thing.

Fish botting has always been a pretty "risk free" method of making money, right? I mean it levels bonecraft to 100 atleast.

[Catrina]

YOU WANT SYMPATHY FOR THAT ?? CHOCOBO DIGGING HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRACTICALLY RISK FREE METHOD OF MAKING MONEY, AND YOU"RE BITCHING BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY DO IT FOR LIKE 3 HOURS EVERY DAY INSTEAD OF BOTTING IT ALL DAY LONG.

You're comparing a lot to fishing. Honestly, it's not a good comparison at all.

Unlike fishing, hardly any chocobo diggers were bots, and those that were, worked badly (didn't dig fast or often enough, and had no way to "feel" a zone or find item spawns).

The problem is, chocobo digging was a sort of "golden goose" and RMT'ers caught on to it and decided to exploit it (they don't bot, they dig in shifts), causing a lot of people to complain about it.

SE, being the ballsy-less (I know the term doesn't exist, but w/e) company we all know, went for the quick fix, and played devil's advocate (by not aknowleging the existence of RMT'ers and banning them) and decided on a mechanical fix for the problem instead(fatigue).

I'm pretty sure that most of these bots have cancelled their content ID's by now, so, as far as SE goes , they ended up losing their "customers" anyway.




The point of all this: Chocobo digging is pretty much risk free, almost everything you can dig is sellable to at least offset greens costs. The most you can lose is greens in failed digs if you're stubborn and try to dig an empty zone.

Chocobo Digging is also completely different from crafting, where the stakes are enormous. And honestly, for the best diggers that I know of, digging was simply a means to get gil to levelling a craft (or 2 or all) to 100. Two of the most famous crafters that were ever on Asura (Ryuit and Ronaud) were A10 diggers.

Being a supplier of raw materials has limited potential in the long run. Anyone that wants it to be their only income source isn't seeing the big picture at all.

[Machazareel]

The time it takes to acquire said capital for crafting takes alot of time as well. Took me almost two years to cap woodworking. Sure, if you have infinite gil you can cap a craft fairly quickly, but you don't. You have to work alot to make the money to cap it off, especially since in the later levels, alot of that gil is essentially thrown away. So no, there isn't a place where the two balance out.

If it took you two years to cap WW, then you took your time and weren't going at it hardcore. When we say it takes years to get A10 digging, we're not talking a dig here and there, we're talking consistently digging for hours on end, day in, day out. Yes, the two crafts do balance out in terms of effort.

(80 WW btw, so I know most of what it takes to get into higher levels of WW, and no, I didn't use what I dug to fund my crafting. I didn't start digging until after I was 80 WW.)

Dude, 80 WW isn't the hard part of the trip to 100. Talk to me again after you've spent another 50-70mill on the rest of the process.
Gotta love those 1mill gil synths that you purposefully break, hoping you don't lose mats to skill up. >_>
Cythara Anglicas were fun too.

[Kurp]

50-70 million for 80-100 WW?