Thief Damage increase Fact or Fiction?

[Keido]

The THF knife is actully pretty good damage like I said I do not use it during the daylight hours.

Ignoring bonuses, why would you use a 28/183 dagger during the daytime and then switch to a 28/194 dagger during night time?

Anyway, as for the other stuff, you could upgrade Spike Necklace to either Chivalrous Chain, Spectacles or Peacock Charm. There's pretty much no reason to wear af2 pants for TP gain and you are carrying around dusk for tp which is already far better than af2 pants, so use them instead. Again, no reason to use Assassin's Armlets during TP... War+1, Dusk, Homam or Tarasque (sushi) are all better. Comet Tail is a pretty odd choice for the ranged slot too; why not use a Bomb Core (not pulling) or some other weapon with some stat boost that would actually help your damage? Any xbow with acid bolts or even a Lightning Bow+1 would help you more than the Comet Tail.

No real comment on the WS set except that I'm surprised to see the Comet Tail there too.

In one word I was LAZY. I was trying to find a perfect balance between HNM and XP. Now however I am seeing that making the changes you all are suggesting are much better.

I have changed the following:

TP gain:
Head: Optical Hat
Neck: Spectacles
Body: Homam Corazza
Legs: War Brais +1
Hands: War Gloves +1
Feet: Assassin's Poulaines
L. Ring: Sniper Ring
R. Ring: Sniper Ring
Belt: Life Belt
Back: Comanders Cape
Range: Bomb Core
Main Hand: Blau Dolch
Second Hand: Daylight Dagger

Weapon Skill:
Head: Hecatomb Cap
Neck: Spike Necklace
Body: Dragon Harness
Legs: Dusk Trousers
Hands: Tarasque Mitts +1
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings
L. Ring: Adroit Ring
R. Ring: Rajas Ring
Belt: Swordbelt +1
Back: Comanders Cape
Range: Bomb Core
Main Hand: Blau Dolch
Second Hand: Daylight Dagger

Merits:
4 Dex merits
4 Hp merits
8 Dagger merits
4 Evasion merits
5 Triple Attack merits
2 Assassins Charge merit
4 Critical Hit merits
1 Enemy Critical Down merit


This was just testing lastnight I was able to push my ATK to over 550 With Hedgehog Pie and a Bard it was 510 with no Bard. Weaponskill damage was not increased from the previous setup however DoT was increased. I am still doing testing and will have more information on Friday and Saturday. I hope to god I can get X's Knife.

I am going to continue to test with different daggers and combinations.

[Soma]

Hm.. for me, I notice a huge increase in my dmg output. I'll post my highest WS dmg on Sea Puks (pre-patch & post-patch).

Pre-patch Dancing Edge (no SA or TA)

Food used - Red Curry
Songs - 2x minuet

Post-patch Dancing Edge (no SA or TA)

Food used - Hedgehog Pie
Songs - 2x minuet

Merits stayed the same from pre-patch SS and post-patch SS 'cause I don't get invites (lolthf) ._.

Despite having 60 less attack going from Red Curry to Hedgehog Pie, having almost 200 dmg increased is relatively satisfying. Well, I guess I cheated a bit from getting Warcry, but it's still a nice boost (not like TP Bonus matters for DE).

I've yet to unlock any of the new merits yet.. Can't wait =D

[MisterBob]

Ultima's shields are a buff, not a phase. It uses Energy Screen/Mana Screen. You might be able to steal it, would be pretty funny if you could.
Mobs like Omega though are indeed in phases and you most likely couldn't steal the buff.

Call it what you want, it's not a buff just because he states he uses it. A buff is something that can be dispelled, try and dispel Ultima or Hydra and you'll get a No Effect notice. Regardless of if it being in the chatlog or shown via animation (Omega) its still a phase implemented into the strategy of the mob.

Since when? Cerberus can throw up an undispellable Magma Hoplon. Is that a Stoneskin "phase"? Pots use Reactor Cool, which gives them 2 effects. The defense bonus can be dispelled, the Ice Spikes cannot. So you'd call the Ice Spikes a "phase" too? And when the Stoneskin buff was undispellable from every mob in the game, were they all entering "Stoneskin phase"?

Ultima requires TP to use the Screens, it's a buff.

[Squallblade]

Hm.. for me, I notice a huge increase in my dmg output. I'll post my highest WS dmg on Sea Puks (pre-patch & post-patch).

Pre-patch Dancing Edge (no SA or TA)

Food used - Red Curry
Songs - 2x minuet

Post-patch Dancing Edge (no SA or TA)

Food used - Hedgehog Pie
Songs - 2x minuet



Merits stayed the same from pre-patch SS and post-patch SS 'cause I don't get invites (lolthf) ._.

Despite having 60 less attack going from Red Curry to Hedgehog Pie, having almost 200 dmg increased is relatively satisfying. Well, I guess I cheated a bit from getting Warcry, but it's still a nice boost (not like TP Bonus matters for DE).

I've yet to unlock any of the new merits yet.. Can't wait =D

what's your WS gear?

[Tdizzle]

THF knife in xp pt......why? Get a sirocco or misericorde+1.

Anyways, one of our LS thieves did a 906 SATA+Assassin's Charge+Last Resort+Souleater Sharkbite to Tiamat last night with no food or bard buffs. Not sure on what dagger he used, but it'd either be a thief knife or blau.

Gimp, havent fought Tiamat since the patch but prepatch no bard using lolmithkabob...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../tiamatsb1.png

About the dmg increase:
It has indeed increased. I at sushi last night on aura statue pt with war and rng and outparsed the next highest by 2%. I compared my melee and ws dmg to prepatch.

Prepatch (statues of course, no lolpiercing weakness here)
Food/melee/ws avg's
sushi/25/883
meat/34/980

accuracy was 93% wish sushi an 75% with meat. Sushi outparses meat by a large margin on statues, you just cant get enough acc to parse near 90 eatting meat and the ws dmg doesnt make up for the slower tp rate.

Post patch (aura statues again)
Sushi/38/980

93% accuracy again.

Basically post patch sushi gave me similar ws dmg as meat before and higher melee dmg while having ridiculous acc. Yea the dmg is noticable, especially on melee.

[epigram]

Friends don't let friends merit DEX...

[aurik]

Please don't use Commander's Cape.

[Soma]

what's your WS gear?

THF/NIN - DE build

I use Hecatomb Harness in xp PT. I don't stack it with SA or TA, so I favor the accuracy boost from Heca.

For HNMs, I use Dragon Harness.

[Banstick]

dumb question,but wouldnt heartsnatcher be a bit better now,specially since the evis. update?

was thinking main hand Harpe(or blau),off hand heartsnatcher

[aurik]

dumb question,but wouldnt heartsnatcher be a bit better now,specially since the evis. update?

was thinking main hand Harpe(or blau),off hand heartsnatcher

Why offhand? You want the extra crit on your mainhand which will be doing 5 of your 6 DE strikes.

[Eaglestrike]

Please don't use Commander's Cape.

And about heartsnatcher...meh, dmg is still too low for a 'good' end-game mainhand IMO.

[Banstick]

dumb question,but wouldnt heartsnatcher be a bit better now,specially since the evis. update?

was thinking main hand Harpe(or blau),off hand heartsnatcher

Why offhand? You want the extra crit on your mainhand which will be doing 5 of your 6 DE strikes.

yeah,i can see that,what would you offhand then though?

[aurik]

dumb question,but wouldnt heartsnatcher be a bit better now,specially since the evis. update?

was thinking main hand Harpe(or blau),off hand heartsnatcher

Why offhand? You want the extra crit on your mainhand which will be doing 5 of your 6 DE strikes.

yeah,i can see that,what would you offhand then though?

Ridill.

[Eaglestrike]

dumb question,but wouldnt heartsnatcher be a bit better now,specially since the evis. update?

was thinking main hand Harpe(or blau),off hand heartsnatcher

Why offhand? You want the extra crit on your mainhand which will be doing 5 of your 6 DE strikes.

yeah,i can see that,what would you offhand then though?

Ridill.

Now that gets me thinking... for a Mercy Stroke'er like Wafik, would Justice Sword have a chance at holding against Ridill? Justice is only occasionally attacks twice, but it's been shown that multi-hit stacks with base triple/double attacks. For a thf with Triple attack and double attack couldn't Justice be just as good? And then it gives str+7 for MS dmg too...

[aurik]

He'd need to eat sushi to connect with a sword.

[Eaglestrike]

He'd need to eat sushi to connect with a sword.

Yeah, but you brought up using Ridill

I'd probably have two setups when I finish and test them out. Mandau/Justice with sushi and Mandau/Blau with meat and see how they parse. I think with the dagger dmg boost though with meat /ridill isn't as good for thief as many claim since you need to use sushi. It'd need to be parsed though probably.

[aurik]

I'd use a Ridill to support a mainhand HS, because lolsushi isn't such a big deal with Evisc now -- crit based WS inflates your pDIF nicely, which is why you see 1600+ on Rampage even with lolsushi. JSword makes you give up your ranged/ammo slot for virtue stones, never attacks thrice, and has 6 less base damage. 7 strength will never make up for that.

With a Mandau + Mercy build you want to crank your pDIF so that you can get the full 3x3 modifier on the massive str mod. Meat = win.

I'd probably offhand mkris over justice and maybe even ridill for a mandau+mercy build, so you can meat it up and still get the tp acceleration of a multihit weapon.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I'd sub WAR and play smart but carefully.

[aurik]

I'd sub WAR and play smart but carefully.

It's a bit overrated I think. DW+15% (or +20% with suppa) compares with DA 10%, especially considering that double attacks cannibalize your triple attack opportunities. Also, if you're offhanding a multihit weapon you lose even more TP acceleration. Berserk is nice but with proper meat, gear, and song its usefulness is diminished. And, lastly, no shadows.

I'm not saying it's gimped by any means, but there are pros and cons.

[Eaglestrike]

I'd use a Ridill to support a mainhand HS, because lolsushi isn't such a big deal with Evisc now -- crit based WS inflates your pDIF nicely, which is why you see 1600+ on Rampage even with lolsushi. JSword makes you give up your ranged/ammo slot for virtue stones, never attacks thrice, and has 6 less base damage. 7 strength will never make up for that.

With a Mandau + Mercy build you want to crank your pDIF so that you can get the full 3x3 modifier on the massive str mod. Meat = win.

I'd probably offhand mkris over justice and maybe even ridill for a mandau+mercy build, so you can meat it up and still get the tp acceleration of a multihit weapon.

Yeah, my plan is still Mandau/Blau, but a few ideas to try out wouldn't hurt. Attack+36 in your weapon slots is pretty nice...

Edit: Also, Justice stacks with double/triple attack. So justice can actually hit 4 times in a single attack round, I believe.