Defending Ring (lolsash)

[aurik]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

Well you may have lost the discussion but at least you learned something today about mob TP gain. It's essential knowledge for nin tanking. The fact that you think it is totally irrelevant in HNM situations (hint, there's a reason why most people take out wyrms with a fuckload of garudas) makes me glad you aren't a ninja, despite having the sash.

[Tyche]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

NIN/DRK on grand wyrms onry. Yes, they cast spells!

[ps2user]

WHOOOOSH

whooosh what?
only noob would pick shura over byakko for tp gain no matter what job he is.
this is so alla, please stop posting.

[Map]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

Well you may have lost the discussion but at least you learned something today about mob TP gain. It's essential knowledge for nin tanking. The fact that you think it is totally irrelevant in HNM situations (hint, there's a reason why most people take out wyrms with a fuckload of garudas) makes me glad you aren't a ninja, despite having the sash.

You still have not named 1 fight in which NINJAS need subtle blow because the monster is spamming tp.

[Dezzimal]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

NIN/DRK on grand wyrms onry. Yes, they cast spells!

Alla noob question: Stun gives TP? I was under the impression a spell had to do damage to give TP.


And I'll bite Map. Tiamat. NIN/DRK frequently go souleater + katana swings while the secondary tank is tanking. +6 subtle blow would be helpful there. There ya go.

[aurik]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

Well you may have lost the discussion but at least you learned something today about mob TP gain. It's essential knowledge for nin tanking. The fact that you think it is totally irrelevant in HNM situations (hint, there's a reason why most people take out wyrms with a fuckload of garudas) makes me glad you aren't a ninja, despite having the sash.

You still have not named 1 fight in which NINJAS need subtle blow because the monster is spamming tp.

Tiamat or Jorm with summoners using pld/nin + nin/drk. Ninjas engage with katanas on the ground to generate hate (especially with souleater after a roar). SB reduces the TP gained by the Wyrm during this process.

Give up yet?

[Aribeth]

When 18 people engage a mob, they transform like voltron into a behemoth of a person that represents a collection of attack and defense and sustainability.

Each person in the alliance makes up this giant and of course everybody tries to perform their role to the best of their ability.
For some it is defending against the enemies attacks, for others it is helping in sustaining this stalwart defense. For others it is providing the offensive capabilities to defeat the monster's hitpoints, and for others it is facilitating this dmg by piercing the enemy's defenses.

Usually in the 18man alliance, there are 2-3 tanks. A defending ring, the most precious of rings, provides 10% Dmg Reduction. That simply lifts a tank to the 100 percentile over all those 90 percentile tanks who just don't have it.

It is not that a Relic Weapon is weak, no no they are strongest of the strong in their category; but that they only represents 1 out of 12 dmg dealers will always be their downfall. A Relic Horn represents a huge MP regeneration rate up in 1/3 of the party; 2/3s if your Brd can bounce between 2 parties. A relic shield (if the pld can keep hate 100% of the time) represents a huge improvement on the defense of the entire alliance.

That 6% interruption rate could mean the lose of a tank. It could mean the loss of the entire defensive capabilities. I think that is more important than 6 atk / 12..... especially for a person's who role usually is to facilitate blm elemental dmg by weapon skill.

The above paragraphs of course take a more complicated course when you factor in such things as Area-Of-Effect dmg where defense can not be so consolodated or on Mobs where BLMs are less effective such as Hydra. But even there, there are lots of arguments on why Nin should be before a Sam for defensive purposes or why a Ridill-War or Ridill-Drk should be before a Sam for physical dmg purposes.

~ciao

[Senoska]

WHOOOOSH

whooosh what?
only noob would pick shura over byakko for tp gain no matter what job he is.
this is so alla, please stop posting.

your totaly missing what I said, go back and reread please thx

[Banstick]

You still have not named 1 fight in which NINJAS need subtle blow because the monster is spamming tp.

Charybdis.

[Khamsin]

The only conclusion I can come to, is that sams just suck on every other server.

6 attack isn't going to make you better than any other SAM on other servers

I didn't say the sash made sams better on my server than on others, but apparently there are servers out there wearing shura over byakkos. Would a mnk wear shura over byakkos?

is mnk SAM?

Look at the pieces of gear before you let the shit spew from your mouth.

MNKs have haste builds, and haste generally does wonders for them, turning them into faceripping beasts. SAMs do not wear haste builds, and without a haste build, a random +5% haste won't do anything for you. MNKs would wear byakko's haidate, and a SAM would wear shura haidate, and each can meet their optimum setup.

[Charitwo]

This is turning into one of those neverending threads that always get another page before I think I'm finishing the last one

[Tyche]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

NIN/DRK on grand wyrms onry. Yes, they cast spells!

Alla noob question: Stun gives TP? I was under the impression a spell had to do damage to give TP.


And I'll bite Map. Tiamat. NIN/DRK frequently go souleater + katana swings while the secondary tank is tanking. +6 subtle blow would be helpful there. There ya go.

I used my awesome power of asumption to assume it did. I could be wrong, but when dia hits for 0, it gives the mob TP, however it does to gradual damage.

[Dezzimal]

You still have not named 1 fight in which NINJAS need subtle blow because the monster is spamming tp.

Charybdis.

Nicely done.

How many pages in the last 10 minutes is that, 5? lol

[Map]

Tiamat or Jorm with summoners using pld/nin + nin/drk. Ninjas engage with katanas on the ground to generate hate (especially with souleater after a roar). SB reduces the TP gained by the Wyrm during this process.

Give up yet?

We TA from our badass sams to generate hate for the ninjas, rather than feeding a mob pointless tp. Actually, we rarely even have ninjas tanking grands, cause plds(like our one with an aegis) hold hate and tank them much better. LOL@your ninja/drk having to melee grand dragons for hate.

[Suiram]

I don't understand people's arguements against Map here, with the exception of Aurik's (who is arguing that other jobs benefit more from the sash, which I don't think anyone here disputes). But if you read BG frequently, you have to have noticed every thread someone makes a joke "lol give sash to a SAM" or some variant of it, and I get the feeling half of them haven't even killed prudence.

It's been stated in previous threads that his sea LS is 100% points-driven, since they are comprised of members of multiple HNM LSs, so it essentially has to be. If your HNM LS doesn't or didn't do sea, would you rather see something like a sash go to a NIN in a rival HNM LS who attended half as many events as a SAM in your HNM LS?

Once you get past the fact of how he got it, can you dispute that there is no better SAM waist piece? The consensus appears to be no.

Map is one of the early "sea pioneers" in my view, like Kaylia on Ifrit, who supplied a lot of useful information to the general community when your LS probably was spending 5 hours popping Temperance or getting sheer animosity. If I was him, who had to read "lol SAM sash" as an aside comment every day in some thread on these boards, I'd probably have snapped a long time ago.

[aurik]

Subtle blow affects TP gained from spell damage. You lose.

Your server spams the elemental wheel on grand dragons? you lose.

NIN/DRK on grand wyrms onry. Yes, they cast spells!

Alla noob question: Stun gives TP? I was under the impression a spell had to do damage to give TP.


And I'll bite Map. Tiamat. NIN/DRK frequently go souleater + katana swings while the secondary tank is tanking. +6 subtle blow would be helpful there. There ya go.

I used my awesome power of asumption to assume it did. I could be wrong, but when dia hits for 0, it gives the mob TP, however it does to gradual damage.

Any spell that does 0 dmg gives 0 tp. However, ninjas DO use the elemental wheel. Particularly recently I saw a SS of Friction using elemental wheel for a stunning 2 dmg, but more importantly reducing Cerb's resistance for an incoming magic burst. Would have helped there too.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

[quote=Khamsin]

The only conclusion I can come to, is that sams just suck on every other server.

6 attack isn't going to make you better than any other SAM on other servers

I didn't say the sash made sams better on my server than on others, but apparently there are servers out there wearing shura over byakkos. Would a mnk wear shura over byakkos?

is mnk SAM?

Look at the pieces of gear before you let the shit spew from your mouth.

MNKs have haste builds, and haste generally does wonders for them, turning them into faceripping beasts. SAMs do not wear haste builds, and without a haste build, a random +5% haste won't do anything for you. MNKs would wear byakko's haidate, and a SAM would wear shura haidate, and each can meet their optimum setup.[/quote:436a3]

Actually byakko haidate adds more acc than NQ shura haidate as well as the haste... just saying.

And the sash is still for drk only.

[Tyche]

weapon bash too!

[Map]

You still have not named 1 fight in which NINJAS need subtle blow because the monster is spamming tp.

Charybdis.

Nicely done.

How many pages in the last 10 minutes is that, 5? lol

So ninjas should have the ninurtas sash over sams, so they can tank Charybdis better? gtfo.

[Taku]

[quote=Khamsin]

The only conclusion I can come to, is that sams just suck on every other server.

6 attack isn't going to make you better than any other SAM on other servers

I didn't say the sash made sams better on my server than on others, but apparently there are servers out there wearing shura over byakkos. Would a mnk wear shura over byakkos?

is mnk SAM?

Look at the pieces of gear before you let the shit spew from your mouth.

MNKs have haste builds, and haste generally does wonders for them, turning them into faceripping beasts. SAMs do not wear haste builds, and without a haste build, a random +5% haste won't do anything for you. MNKs would wear byakko's haidate, and a SAM would wear shura haidate, and each can meet their optimum setup.[/quote:c96ad]

Not really, they both have Haste Builds for TP, and stat builds for WS... just like practically every other melee. Seriously, why would a SAM TP in Shura Haidate over Byakko's?