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[Delekii]

I never did understand that "any exp is better than no xp argument"... getting 2k an hour in a 6man pt is such a vast waste of time I just dont get it. Its like taking a job that pays 50c an hour and working 9-5, when you could spend that same 9-5 looking for a job that pays $10...

I guess it explains a lot though.. people who are willing to accepted a vastly inferior second best, use pup tanks.

[doofy]

Post at the top of the last page already describes how I feel about PUP tanking. 2004 - Maybe / 2006 - No, F'ing no. Let Zam have it, as long as it stays away from this thread I don't really care. Not going to take anything away from what people do to have fun playing the game, but the job is not a tank.

ENM again with no drop, non-drop streak is back up to 0/3. Getting the last attachment is going to take longer than it did to get the first 7, although the ENM is now at a point where I keep trying to break my win record. Speed attacked Fanto, 2houred right off the bat, left his auto alone (harlequinn) and only ended up using 4 Hi-Pot+3s (win in 3:03).

Never really paid much attention to it before but the parry rate on the VE/HQ combo is quite high (also means it isnt a true h2h since it parrys instead of guarding, but that could just be a glitch). Im also still trying to test whether or not the T3 attachments make a difference against Fanto, he is ItG but levelwise he's EM+ at best. Parse results initially show more total damage while using TenII/StabII than Attuner/Tgt.Mk, but I've only bothered logging each a few times. I might even give the rng frame a try in this just for shits, BB&C supposedly tried this and lost, but it was putting out a lot of dmg.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Toth]

Go go Vyzrael! One thing I wanted to comment about is that I am starting to think having Hand to Hand Merits has had an unfortunate side effect. Yes, I hit it much better and my WS are doing excellent damage but I am also pulling a bit more hate. It's getting hard for Serenade to voke off me. I had to turn twice to let my maton pull hate.

[Odd]

Go go Vyzrael! One thing I wanted to comment about is that I am starting to think having Hand to Hand Merits has had an unfortunate side effect. Yes, I hit it much better and my WS are doing excellent damage but I am also pulling a bit more hate. It's getting hard for Serenade to voke off me. I had to turn twice to let my maton pull hate.

Thats one of the reasons I dont bother with the Alla/KI crew. I've read several times there that the puppets provoke is super powerful (and can be used to save your ass whilst lolpuptanking). However, I start off every ENM with voke and constantly keep up fire manuever and the puppet cant even pull hate after I start hitting. (I do have full h2h,str,crit merits and use carbonara on ENM... but still).

[solsovly]

I never did understand that "any exp is better than no xp argument"... getting 2k an hour in a 6man pt is such a vast waste of time I just dont get it. Its like taking a job that pays 50c an hour and working 9-5, when you could spend that same 9-5 looking for a job that pays $10...

I guess it explains a lot though.. people who are willing to accepted a vastly inferior second best, use pup tanks.

Your analogy doesn't really work. The reason most people take shitty xp groups is their limited play time, especially if you only play 2-3 a day, many people can't afford to keep waiting. That said, even though I play a fairly limited amount of times on the weekday, I still wont take crappy groups as horrible players/xp aggravate me more than its worth.

[Elmer the Pointy]

OK, I need to vent for a second.

Starting today, I will never look at Alla's PUP forums again because of this quote:

As for tanking to 75...we shall see. With the way Enaru's going it wouldnt' surprise me if he accomplishes it; however, I think camps like Bibiki Bay, Sky, and Lufuise Meadows would be more PUP-tank friendly than the merit-flooded ToAU lvl 70+ camps. Then again if a PUP can tank a merit party...

This was posted by a guy with no lvl 75 job, and not a SINGLE LEVEL of Puppetmaster!

This genius thinks there's a chance for PUP to tank a merit party. Good gravy, that would be the saddest sight ever.
I'm a PUP and that makes me embarassed. It would the first invite ever that I would say {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

I resisted replying on Alla because it's a waste of time, but I couldn't let that go without posting something somewhere.

I'm not even going to go into the myriad of reasons any monster in the aforementioned areas would beat him so hard Sage Sundi would feel it. I trust you can figure that out for yourselves. Although the saddest part might be he couldn't generate the hate to even receive the beating. Everytime he vokes the monster would just roll his eyes and go back to hitting the real melees.

And sorry Toth, I know you're still struggling against them over there, but my advice would be to just leave. No farewell noobs post, no final arguments... just pack up and never return to the Alla PUP forums.

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OK, back to fun stuff.

I did the ENM again, but my hate control got messy. I would have recovered, but the mannequin go so many TP rolls it was ridiculous. I got skillchained on and left at 34 hp. Not enough time to pop the next potion

I used PUP in Operation Desert Swarm. THF kited with a WHM healer. I duo'd scorpions one-by-one with a NIN and we had a RDM and BLM to help us. Weird setup maybe, but we won each battle and PUP was useful.

I got some keys for my low-level friend Swani. I took out Sharpshot in Giddeus and noticed it does some crazy damage. I could one-shot bascially anything in the whole zone.
Now I know it's all crap level weenies, but Kintoki would hit for 500-600+ on these things. I don't know if a RNG puts out these numbers on low level stuff too, so feel free to take me down several pegs. If was pretty fun just knocking off stuff in one-shot without engaging.

Now that I'm 75, I'm starting to experiment with equip setups. I have both /MNK items so I tried /MNK in a merit PT and it wasn't bad. I figure since boosting attack is a lost cause, I'm trying to go for max speed and Accuracy.
Once I get some more Fist merits in and get the Padawan pants and Head I can try using Meat. Right now, my Acc is horrible without sushi. Once a Wyvern Earring comes up (which is almost daily) I'll try a Haste build (14% with Turban, Earring, Belt). See how that compares with /MNK (Turban, Marital Arts Traits/Mantle)

There's my recent goings-ons. Feel free to comment on whatever.

http://www.cactuarsensei.com/pics/detour.gif

[Toth]

Elmer, you continue to be a great, leveled-headed PUP and I salute you. I am psyched to see a practical use of PUP in a KS30, thats for sure! Hope you had good drops and I hope to see others try out PUP in long established BCNMs.

I am getting tired of Alla too so I won't be posting much. Its still good fun to see what they are going to say next. Some make some solid points but many do not. I think I made my point clearly last night:

"PUPs like myself spent at least 5 months trying to convince parties we were solid DDs all the way up to 75. It was long and difficult. Thankfully, we have done that. We have the parsars and experience to prove it. It took mighty convincing on my server, thats for sure, to get the job somewhat respected. Now I question why, after all that hard work, do we suddenly need to show people we can be versatile and tank as PUPs? Please answer the question. PUP is very versatile but versatility has its limits. If PUPs start tanking, what does that tell people who accepted it as a DD? "

Then last night, the PUp tanking 'pioneer' posted this:

"Last night I had one of the best parties I've ever had tanking as PUP, and it wasnt in the Aht Urhgan areas either, it was in good ol' Bibiki Bay.

The leader of my 3 man static (the SMN) decided we should try a camp he knew was good for our level to avoid the disaster we had in my thread: Tanking Mamook Jas. So we went to Bibiki Bay, our party was PUP/WAR DRG/WAR SMN/WHM (static) plus a BLU/NIN MNK/WAR and RDM/WHM we invited, all lvls 66-67 (I started as lvl 66).

We took the Dhamels there (called Catobelas or something), which ranged from IT+ to IT++ to me and were incredibly easy for me to tank as PUP. They hit very slowly and rather inaccurately, the only part that was a little painful was their occasional Double Attack and their ability called Stomping (one time I guarded on a Stomping and it only did 93 dam [my guard skill is currently 134 with gear, 124 without}). My puppet and the 2 backup healers (SMN and RDM) handled keeping me alive just fine. They also made sure to Erase me as soon as the Dhamel used Sonic Wave (defense down ability).

I kept hate the vast majority of the time. The MNK was the only one that got beat up a bit, but he got the smart idea of switching out his Scorp Harness to a Crow Jupon when he took hate and switching back when I grabbed hate again, so he never had hate for very long anymore after he started doing that.

We were getting xp chain #4 consistently for close to 250 xp. The party started at 10:00pm and ended at midnight and we got 12k xp. So we averaged 6k an hour.

Now I'm not saying the Aht Urhgan areas are no good, but right now for us and our lvl range, this "older" area is working much better. Being able to chain IT+ mobs is looking better than a 15% xp bonus from sanction. About the only thing I missed was meal extension (I used quite a few more Dorado Sushi in this party than usual).

At any rate, my PUP is 67 now and is my highest job lvl ever. YAH-HOOO! \^o^/ "

I am not so sure this is the absolute truth to the story. Too many things seem suspect about it. I just can't help the feeling that if he had replaced the BLU with a NIN and let him/her tank, the exp would have been even better. But that's just me being an 'elitist', I suppose.

edit: grammar

[doofy]

I believe it, but I also know that if I was in a pt there doing 6k/hr I would leave. The fact that he had 2 people healing him and also had to tell the monk "Hey, please gimp yourself so I can keep hate" is another tell tale sign that he's forcing people to make PUP tank look more favorable than it is.

Went through that same area/lvl range as a PUP DD months ago and it was nearly 2x/hr than what he was getting. A party that is working fast enough should also have to pull gobs to keep chains going (or the lower level tragopans depending on which cato camp you're at), but I doubt they even went near them. Like I said, 2004 xp/hr expectations = fine, you can tank if we can't find a PLD or NIN, current expectations = get the hell away from me.

And btw, this

At any rate, my PUP is 67 now and is my highest job lvl ever. YAH-HOOO! \^o^/

should let you know how to respond to his "expertise". He's happy so let him be King of Zam, who really cares. If he ever reaches endgame (for the first time ever mind you) he'll try to tank an endgame mob and get broken in half. But then again who knows, maybe his 124 (134 w/gear zOMG!@#!) guard skill will prove us all wrong when he tries to tank anything worth a damn. It would almost be worth getting a mule/worldpass just to watch him try.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Elmer the Pointy]

doofy stole my material lol

also had to tell the monk "Hey, please gimp yourself so I can keep hate" is another tell tale sign that he's forcing people to make PUP tank look more favorable than it is.

And btw, this [quote:5ce29]
At any rate, my PUP is 67 now and is my highest job lvl ever. YAH-HOOO! \^o^/

should let you know how to respond to his "expertise". [/quote:5ce29]

Exactly the best points worth making out of his "best party ever".

Also, as for believability factor... Catoblepas are very very good for chaining fast if you have them to yourself. It's like a sneak preview of merit-TPspam parties.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

doofy stole my material lol

also had to tell the monk "Hey, please gimp yourself so I can keep hate" is another tell tale sign that he's forcing people to make PUP tank look more favorable than it is.

[quote:9575b]And btw, this [quote:9575b]
At any rate, my PUP is 67 now and is my highest job lvl ever. YAH-HOOO! \^o^/

should let you know how to respond to his "expertise". [/quote:9575b]

Exactly the best points worth making out of his "best party ever".

Also, as for believability factor... Catoblepas are very very good for chaining fast if you have them to yourself. It's like a sneak preview of merit-TPspam parties.[/quote:9575b]

Unless you get bad healing breeze luck <_<. I had one that did 3 healing breeze in a row. No zerk. That sucked.

[Toth]

Oh that Poof. She's so smart :D

Poof quote for the ages for Ryko and the others:

"PUP is by far the most powerful class in the game. It's probably only a matter of time before SE NERFs it. I'll be sure to enjoy it preNERF as much as possible, and I'm sure I'll still love it after they NERF it."

[Toth]

Double Post >< Apologies.

[Ryko]

Not that it applies now that I'm replying but you can just delete your last post assuming it's the last post in a thread.

[Toth]

Argh! Oh well, lesson learned. Thanks Ryko.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I Know What You Did Last Monday

http://www.cactuarsensei.com/ffxivid/tothjunk.JPG



Bored before going to sleep so I threw random names into ffxiah.com
Thought it was amusing to see this in your recent transactions. Good night

[aurik]

http://ffxiah.com/player.php?id=170613&sid=28

Darksteel Sainti, wtf?

[Elmer the Pointy]

http://ffxiah.com/player.php?id=170613&sid=28

Darksteel Sainti, wtf?

I wanted a pair of +1s

A crafter I know got it on the second try so I get to sell mostly everything back, plus a pair of 250k Darksteel Sainti original flavor.

Just for shiznits and giggles, I'm testing out maximizing my speed. D. Sainti+1 have only +49 delay. I still get 3acc which is meh, and a lil' evasion.

I'm combining it with the turban and comparing /DRG +5 haste earring and /MNK +Martial Arts traits and mantle. So far I prefer MNK because it has Boost, Focus, Evasion and Counter. Seems like several Martial Arts boosts beat Haste+5% too. Plus, it's hard enough to get people to merit with a PUP... if they see me Jumping through the air the mob's name will go purple so fast I'll think I was in Dragon Aery.

Besides Berserk, PUPs don't get many Attk+ options, so I testing out other ways to become more effiecient.

I bet you enjoyed my long-winded explanation... if you even bothered to come back to this thread to check



EDIT: Congrats on Spharai! It must be nice to equip real hand-to-hand weapons

[Toth]

You found me out Elmer! At least its down to only 60k per fun (Hi Potion tanks are back to 30k though so I just buy the potions now to save time)

[Khamsin]

Since search is borked, anyone mind telling me if Analyzer or Scanner were ever figured out?

And is there any good way to force your stormwaker to nuke (e.g. light/dark maneuver or light/dark/water, etc.) but involving an ice maneuver?

Anytime I use ice maneuver for the MAB, he wants to cast other crap first.

[Toth]

Analyzer makes your Maton (VE only I think) Shield Bash more effectively when a mob readies their big TP moves. Scanner just makes your maton cast enfeebles exclusively.

For nuking, I like to use Dark, Light, and then Ice in that order for some nice elemental damage. The maton will only nuke 80-100% if the mob is below 50% without the combos.