Japanese Government looking into online currency sales:

[Epincus]

Found this article on slashdot earlier today, and the gamespot article (Yes, I know, gamespot) seems to correspond rather closely with SE suddenly dropping the hammer on the 2000 accounts. Namely, this article was posted 3 days before the bannings were announced.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154249.html

Whether I think this did make a difference in SE's bans or not, I have no idea, but the timing is curious. Especially given how slow the company has been to do *anything* in the past. I did a quick look at the front page and didn't see this posted yet, I apologize if something similar to this was posted already.

[$omeguy]

RMT being a Economical crime irl? Now that is something.

[Daahan]

RMT being a Economical crime irl? Now that is something.

It really is.

In most cases a business transaction involves some kind of marginal benefit on both sides of the transaction and somehow get cycled back in to the economy.

Gil doesn't do that, it just enhances online e-penis

[Mekami]

Gil doesn't do that, it just enhances online e-penis

As opposed to...

...offline e-penis?

[Daahan]

Gil doesn't do that, it just enhances online e-penis

As opposed to...

...offline e-penis?

Silence, do not question my redundance.

[Raineer]

RMT being a Economical crime irl? Now that is something.

It really is.

In most cases a business transaction involves some kind of marginal benefit on both sides of the transaction and somehow get cycled back in to the economy.

Gil doesn't do that, it just enhances online e-penis

Gilselling is like placing a tax on gil transfer essentially, the problem is that the "government" isn't the one that is providing the game (unless they're getting kickbacks, which i still believe)

[Daahan]

unless they're getting kickbacks, which i still believe

elaborate.

[genome]

The article is interesting, and I definitely know that anything in Japan is very sensitive to pressure from superiors, government, and potential scandal... But I thought those 2000 accounts were mostly for flee-hacking and not just specifically for RMTing?

[Kuponut]

The article is interesting, and I definitely know that anything in Japan is very sensitive to pressure from superiors, government, and potential scandal... But I thought those 2000 accounts were mostly for flee-hacking and not just specifically for RMTing?

They said 250 accounts over a month ago, the ones that held the 250 million gil that was taken out of circulation

[Epincus]

The article is interesting, and I definitely know that anything in Japan is very sensitive to pressure from superiors, government, and potential scandal... But I thought those 2000 accounts were mostly for flee-hacking and not just specifically for RMTing?

I think it is related. SE probably has a distinguishable way to determine if you use those tools, they just didn't care because they got your money. By banning the flee-hack users (argus/windower/etc) they can demonstrate that they're working to solve the problem. A fast response, if you will.

[Raineer]

unless they're getting kickbacks, which i still believe

elaborate.

I've met alot of stupid people and entities in my life, but really the ONLY possible explanation for SE's ineptitude at removing gilfarmers like the ones in sky is that they are told not to because they benefit from it.

"There are people in the game that simply have more time to play than you do."

They can't possibly be that stupid, even for SE.

[genome]

unless they're getting kickbacks, which i still believe

elaborate.

I've met alot of stupid people and entities in my life, but really the ONLY possible explanation for SE's ineptitude at removing gilfarmers like the ones in sky is that they are told not to because they benefit from it.

"There are people in the game that simply have more time to play than you do."

They can't possibly be that stupid, even for SE.

That's not the official answer of SE. That's the reply from sony's employees, many of which don't even know the most basic facts about the game.
It's the perfect setup for inept service, you have SE Japan on one side worried about something, and just writes up a few directions of how to handle some situations and gives them to Sony Customer Support (GMs), who only really need to care about making each service call as short as possible so statistical reports of number of calls answered and problems 'solved' look good. Even if you meet the rare good GM that played this game and is aware of the problems, he has no way to contact SE and ask to please rewrite their GM customer support policies so he can actually nail some RMTs...

[Gasgul]

lol@ that gov,

these are the same turds that wanted to tax ipods,

[vegetaa]

I've met alot of stupid people and entities in my life, but really the ONLY possible explanation for SE's ineptitude at removing gilfarmers like the ones in sky is that they are told not to because they benefit from it.

I am pretty sure this is the case, too.

I don't think end-game people (read: BG audience) are the biggest gil-buyers. Casual players are (read: Zam audience)...they buy little amounts of gil, but it's a way bigger population. A population that has rather buy 3 or 4M to pay for their sniper rings than farm/craft for them. A population who thinks it's not fun to farm for gil, and who will probably quit game if there was no other way than farming/crafting to get the gil.

And since this is a big part of the playerbase, and S-E doesn't want them to leave, for obvious cash reasons, they just act as a dumb company, not seeing the matter, and not paying attention to people when they point at it.

Knowing that S-E is a big company, with strong experience in the game market, they can't be that dumb. Any big company is packed with analysts, and there's no way they don't control what's happening with the whole RMT situation.

[miokomioko]

SE knows (and we all know) that banning 'gilfarmers' isn't going to stop the RMT. Every time there's a mass ban, what do you see in Yuhtunga a week later, then in Garlaige, dozens of anon/linkshellless players with jibberish or obviously chinese names all on autofollow on eachother. They will keep buying new games and content IDs. And, in a couple weeks of exping 24hrs/day they are 65~75 camping shit like Mee Deggi and botting Ulli.

A good ls-mate of mine who lives in Japan and plays on a japanese client, speaks it, all that. He was camping Charybdis and on our server, the SSG gilfarmers are always happy to help people kill Charybdis when it pops. I'm sure for how long they've been there they all have a Joyeuse, but they honestly help people out not for personal gain other than to make you not despise them enough to try and steal their siren hair mobs... or something, I don't know.

Anyways, my friend was teamed up with them, like I myself have as well a long time go, trying to claim Charybdis since no one else was on LS at some ungodly hour and he started getting some shit-talking from other japanese players about the RMT scum that was helping him. He was defending them and trying to make the point that it's not the CGF that are ruining the economy, it's all the gil-buyers that inflate the prices and if people would stop buying, the problem would solve itself, blah blah blah. He was just defending them and trying to make his own point.

He then finds himself in Mordion Gaol by a japanese GM who was saying he was at risk of being banned because he openly supported RMT... I'm not even kidding, that was the reason. It took a loooong time to explain to the GM that he was simply arguing that it's not the "chinese opportunists" (lol, the gm said that) fault that the business is there for them to take advantage of, it's the people who keep that business alive by buying gil.

I have a feeling that, at least the japanese end of this game, is getting real serious about RMT and GMs are starting to enforce it with no bullshit, but they aren't going after the CGF who are obviously racking up gil to sell out to distributers, but they are after gil buyers although it's real difficult to prove who buys gil, so I'm assuming they jump all over anyone who tries to defend them in any way like what happened at this incident. The GM he spoke to said they realize they can't stop them because no matter how many they ban, they come right back. I can't argue with that because it happens every time there's a large ban and you see your local Ulli-warp-bot not around for a while.

Perhaps the government getting involved is the only way we can see a different approach than this being used to combat RMT.

[Correction]

SE knows (and we all know) that banning 'gilfarmers' isn't going to stop the RMT. Every time there's a mass ban, what do you see in Yuhtunga a week later, then in Garlaige, dozens of anon/linkshellless players with jibberish or obviously chinese names all on autofollow on eachother. They will keep buying new games and content IDs. And, in a couple weeks of exping 24hrs/day they are 65~75 camping shit like Mee Deggi and botting Ulli.

A good ls-mate of mine who lives in Japan and plays on a japanese client, speaks it, all that. He was camping Charybdis and on our server, the SSG gilfarmers are always happy to help people kill Charybdis when it pops. I'm sure for how long they've been there they all have a Joyeuse, but they honestly help people out not for personal gain other than to make you not despise them enough to try and steal their siren hair mobs... or something, I don't know.

Anyways, my friend was teamed up with them, like I myself have as well a long time go, trying to claim Charybdis since no one else was on LS at some ungodly hour and he started getting some shit-talking from other japanese players about the RMT scum that was helping him. He was defending them and trying to make the point that it's not the CGF that are ruining the economy, it's all the gil-buyers that inflate the prices and if people would stop buying, the problem would solve itself, blah blah blah. He was just defending them and trying to make his own point.

He then finds himself in Mordion Gaol by a japanese GM who was saying he was at risk of being banned because he openly supported RMT... I'm not even kidding, that was the reason. It took a loooong time to explain to the GM that he was simply arguing that it's not the "chinese opportunists" (lol, the gm said that) fault that the business is there for them to take advantage of, it's the people who keep that business alive by buying gil.

I have a feeling that, at least the japanese end of this game, is getting real serious about RMT and GMs are starting to enforce it with no bullshit, but they aren't going after the CGF who are obviously racking up gil to sell out to distributers, but they are after gil buyers although it's real difficult to prove who buys gil, so I'm assuming they jump all over anyone who tries to defend them in any way like what happened at this incident. The GM he spoke to said they realize they can't stop them because no matter how many they ban, they come right back. I can't argue with that because it happens every time there's a large ban and you see your local Ulli-warp-bot not around for a while.

Perhaps the government getting involved is the only way we can see a different approach than this being used to combat RMT.

If SE banned gilfarmers more often than once every 6 months, I guarantee you'd see an enormous drop in the amount of RMT activity going on. When a million gil costs 100 real bucks it won't be worth it to the RMT who have to keep wasting time levelling new accounts.

It's possible to stop RMT dead in its tracks. But it's time-intensive (have to actually PAY ATTENTION to server trends and character behavior) and extremely expensive (SE loses far more in banning one chinese player than it would banning one NA player).

I say the jury's out on whether or not SE is getting kickbacks from RMT. Remember kids, incompetence and laziness trump malice every time.

[loial]

If that article in the first post has any truth behind it... it could be that a government sees RMT as a company that is selling some "product" without the government getting their share in taxes.

Isn't RMT a multi-million dollar business? I'm not too keen on Chinese law, but it might be that JP-based RMT businesses aren't reporting profits and government is taking a retaliatory blow to this.

When it comes to banning RMT... RMT can continue to make new account/buy new copies of the game as long as it remains profitable. These are businessmen in the end.

It takes all of about 6-8 weeks(?) for RMT to level from 1-75 on new accounts. Well, that is a best guess. Considering these days you can buy a new copy of the game with the first two expansion for $20 + 1 free month, RMT look at making new accounts as a small loss. They either pay $30 for two months or $40 for two months.

The risk of banning isn't great enough until they ban fast enough where these new accounts can't recoup their losses from making $0 over 2 months.

[inafume]

That's not the official answer of SE. That's the reply from sony's employees, many of which don't even know the most basic facts about the game.
It's the perfect setup for inept service, you have SE Japan on one side worried about something, and just writes up a few directions of how to handle some situations and gives them to Sony Customer Support (GMs), who only really need to care about making each service call as short as possible so statistical reports of number of calls answered and problems 'solved' look good. Even if you meet the rare good GM that played this game and is aware of the problems, he has no way to contact SE and ask to please rewrite their GM customer support policies so he can actually nail some RMTs...

Japanese players still farm sky, correct? Are the Japanese GMs also sub-contracted out to Sony? Somehow I wouldn't think that; that instead they would be SE employees. It would also be ludicrous to think that the JP players farming sky wouldn't call GMs on RMT.

And yet nothing is done, even from that end.

[Ksandra]

SE knows (and we all know) that banning 'gilfarmers' isn't going to stop the RMT. Every time there's a mass ban, what do you see in Yuhtunga a week later, then in Garlaige, dozens of anon/linkshellless players with jibberish or obviously chinese names all on autofollow on eachother. They will keep buying new games and content IDs. And, in a couple weeks of exping 24hrs/day they are 65~75 camping shit like Mee Deggi and botting Ulli.

The problem is they're banning the wrong rmt. When they banned those 250 accounts and took all that gil out of the system, those were mostly mule accounts. the rmt's "banks" that held/recieved/traded gil. I'm sure that set them back but it isn't too hard for them to farm that gil back, and a mule only needs to be lvl 1.

You'd find a lot better service if they 1.banned the known lvl 75 rmts. 2. banned the known rmts that are currently leveling. I don't care what excuse SE gives. It's in the TOS agreement that they can ban you for any reason without warning. They need to stop pussyfooting and just ban those that EVERYONE knows are rmt. It slows them down a lot more if they have to keep trying to get new characters to 75, to only have those banned within a month. And if SE repeatedly does this for a year then you'll find that the rmt will just stop lvling as they are recieving no profit in it.

[Machazareel]

SE knows (and we all know) that banning 'gilfarmers' isn't going to stop the RMT. Every time there's a mass ban, what do you see in Yuhtunga a week later, then in Garlaige, dozens of anon/linkshellless players with jibberish or obviously chinese names all on autofollow on eachother. They will keep buying new games and content IDs. And, in a couple weeks of exping 24hrs/day they are 65~75 camping shit like Mee Deggi and botting Ulli.

A good ls-mate of mine who lives in Japan and plays on a japanese client, speaks it, all that. He was camping Charybdis and on our server, the SSG gilfarmers are always happy to help people kill Charybdis when it pops. I'm sure for how long they've been there they all have a Joyeuse, but they honestly help people out not for personal gain other than to make you not despise them enough to try and steal their siren hair mobs... or something, I don't know.

Anyways, my friend was teamed up with them, like I myself have as well a long time go, trying to claim Charybdis since no one else was on LS at some ungodly hour and he started getting some shit-talking from other japanese players about the RMT scum that was helping him. He was defending them and trying to make the point that it's not the CGF that are ruining the economy, it's all the gil-buyers that inflate the prices and if people would stop buying, the problem would solve itself, blah blah blah. He was just defending them and trying to make his own point.

He then finds himself in Mordion Gaol by a japanese GM who was saying he was at risk of being banned because he openly supported RMT... I'm not even kidding, that was the reason. It took a loooong time to explain to the GM that he was simply arguing that it's not the "chinese opportunists" (lol, the gm said that) fault that the business is there for them to take advantage of, it's the people who keep that business alive by buying gil.

I have a feeling that, at least the japanese end of this game, is getting real serious about RMT and GMs are starting to enforce it with no bullshit, but they aren't going after the CGF who are obviously racking up gil to sell out to distributers, but they are after gil buyers although it's real difficult to prove who buys gil, so I'm assuming they jump all over anyone who tries to defend them in any way like what happened at this incident. The GM he spoke to said they realize they can't stop them because no matter how many they ban, they come right back. I can't argue with that because it happens every time there's a large ban and you see your local Ulli-warp-bot not around for a while.

Perhaps the government getting involved is the only way we can see a different approach than this being used to combat RMT.

IT'S NOT THE DRUG DEALERS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, IT'S THOSE DAMN JUNKIES!