A Question on Merits

[Manako]

I agree Devotion is much better than Martyr, with my wimpy taru HP i would be giving someone either 300 MP or HP. 300 MP > 300 HP in most cases. I think I would put a point in each though, because as it has been said shaving 2.5 or 5 minutes off the ability isn't really worth it.

I think I would put a point in each, and max out shellra V.

[thestalkmore]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

[Lyramion]

For WHM you would need to wonder how often you use each of the two abilities. Personally I am going to max out Devotion and unlock Martyr and the two V buffs, just to have them. While I know 5 DEF doesn't seem like a lot, knowing SE there will probably be an opportunity to increase the max number of points you can put into group 6 at some point in the future. So while there are marginal benefits to having Protect V right now, in the long run it is still an improvement with a possible opportunity to expand upon these skills. To me, Devotion seems like the most used ability hence taking it to level 3. Even though increasing Devotion to level 3 only takes 5 minutes off the recast time, it is still the best choice as far as I can see.

The only times you would use Devotion:
- PLD out of MP, to give them a boost. But you should have a RDM so this would only happen in emergencies.
- Backup healer out of MP, so you restore theirs so you can rest, again only in an emergency.
- DD out of MP (BLM) and the mob is almost dead, in an emergency.
- When someone runs out of MP in a party without a refresher, but even at 15min that's not enough to replace a refresher.

Bottom line is that it should only be used sparatically otherwise your party isn't functioning the rest of the time.

another good time that is over looked is when using a PT setup with two whm (vs HNMs) where one whm needs to /heal and the other has to cover, Devotion is a great tool to minimize the need to /heal between two whm

Devotion is PT member only. How often are 2 WHM in the same party? We usually do Tank/Tank/Brd/Rdm/Whm/SMN or Tank, depending on the situation. Once our COR hits 75 maybe he'll dominate the last slot

Cannot discuss down some "free" MP as bad. Devotion and Martyr consume Stoneskin first then your HP. Unless you have enormous amounts of HP one Stoneskin will always cover it up.

[MisterBob]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

[Mifaco]

For WHM you would need to wonder how often you use each of the two abilities. Personally I am going to max out Devotion and unlock Martyr and the two V buffs, just to have them. While I know 5 DEF doesn't seem like a lot, knowing SE there will probably be an opportunity to increase the max number of points you can put into group 6 at some point in the future. So while there are marginal benefits to having Protect V right now, in the long run it is still an improvement with a possible opportunity to expand upon these skills. To me, Devotion seems like the most used ability hence taking it to level 3. Even though increasing Devotion to level 3 only takes 5 minutes off the recast time, it is still the best choice as far as I can see.

The only times you would use Devotion:
- PLD out of MP, to give them a boost. But you should have a RDM so this would only happen in emergencies.
- Backup healer out of MP, so you restore theirs so you can rest, again only in an emergency.
- DD out of MP (BLM) and the mob is almost dead, in an emergency.
- When someone runs out of MP in a party without a refresher, but even at 15min that's not enough to replace a refresher.

Bottom line is that it should only be used sparatically otherwise your party isn't functioning the rest of the time.

I use Devotion in EXP so RDM doesn't have to convert as often.

And yes, it is worth meriting down to 15:00 recast. ~300 MP for essentially nothing with Stoneskin up is god.

[Genosync]

Hmpf.

RDM: Dia3(2, duration is so short), ParalyzeII(1), PhalanxII(3)
BLM: BurstII(3),TornadoII,FloodII,FreezeII
NIN: lol um.. probably the Sans just to be cool and sexy but when do I use my nin again?
SAM: Shikuyokookoyiouko(6)
RNG: Flashy Shot(6)
WHM: Devotion(4), ShellraV(2)
BRD: Troubador(1), Nightningale(5)
COR: QuickDrawRecast(5)Accuracy(5)

that's what my build's gonna be anyway.

[Mifaco]

Hmpf.

RDM: Dia3(2, duration is so short), ParalyzeII(1), PhalanxII(3)
BLM: BurstII(3),TornadoII,FloodII,FreezeII
NIN: lol um.. probably the Sans just to be cool and sexy but when do I use my nin again?
SAM: Shikuyokookoyiouko(6)
RNG: Flashy Shot(6)
WHM: Devotion(4), ShellraV(2)
BRD: Troubador(1), Nightningale(5)
COR: QuickDrawRecast(5)Accuracy(5)

that's what my build's gonna be anyway.

you've been screwed by Square. 3 merits max in a spell or JA.

[Naerie]

I agree Devotion is much better than Martyr, with my wimpy taru HP i would be giving someone either 300 MP or HP. 300 MP > 300 HP in most cases. I think I would put a point in each though, because as it has been said shaving 2.5 or 5 minutes off the ability isn't really worth it.

I think you're forgetting that Martyr takes 25% of your HP and heals 2x that amount, while Devotion is a straight 25% of your HP to MP. So if your Devotion gives 300MP, your Martyr would give 600HP. That's somewhere between a Cure IV and a Cure V, and it's instant.

[Lockecole]

For WHM you would need to wonder how often you use each of the two abilities. Personally I am going to max out Devotion and unlock Martyr and the two V buffs, just to have them. While I know 5 DEF doesn't seem like a lot, knowing SE there will probably be an opportunity to increase the max number of points you can put into group 6 at some point in the future. So while there are marginal benefits to having Protect V right now, in the long run it is still an improvement with a possible opportunity to expand upon these skills. To me, Devotion seems like the most used ability hence taking it to level 3. Even though increasing Devotion to level 3 only takes 5 minutes off the recast time, it is still the best choice as far as I can see.

The only times you would use Devotion:
- PLD out of MP, to give them a boost. But you should have a RDM so this would only happen in emergencies.
- Backup healer out of MP, so you restore theirs so you can rest, again only in an emergency.
- DD out of MP (BLM) and the mob is almost dead, in an emergency.
- When someone runs out of MP in a party without a refresher, but even at 15min that's not enough to replace a refresher.

Bottom line is that it should only be used sparatically otherwise your party isn't functioning the rest of the time.

another good time that is over looked is when using a PT setup with two whm (vs HNMs) where one whm needs to /heal and the other has to cover, Devotion is a great tool to minimize the need to /heal between two whm

Devotion is PT member only. How often are 2 WHM in the same party?

Considering the source, you'd be VERY surprised. :wink:

[SephYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

[solsovly]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

Where did you get this?

[SephYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

Yeah.. thats why I said it should do more because of the +int.

Burst still does more. (i dont use II because it should be common knowledge)

[Manako]

I agree Devotion is much better than Martyr, with my wimpy taru HP i would be giving someone either 300 MP or HP. 300 MP > 300 HP in most cases. I think I would put a point in each though, because as it has been said shaving 2.5 or 5 minutes off the ability isn't really worth it.

I think you're forgetting that Martyr takes 25% of your HP and heals 2x that amount, while Devotion is a straight 25% of your HP to MP. So if your Devotion gives 300MP, your Martyr would give 600HP. That's somewhere between a Cure IV and a Cure V, and it's instant.

Sorry, you are right I just double checked. :-/ they are probably about equivalent in goodness that way then. I mean you can still get more than 600 HP using 300 MP, but an instant 600 HP can be just as useful.

[BRP]

It make sense. Look at the maxed possible timers with 4 upgrades. Along with Group 2 looking like Group 1 is probably something SE will do.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

Where did you get this?

They did it with old job specific merits, and it also makes sense given PLD's peculiarities with the Sentinel and Rampart bonuses being 19% not 20%. If it stays at 3 capped each it makes no sense to have 19% instead of 20% on spell interruption. 57% instead of 60%...why bother? But 100% and 95% have different implications. Also the abilities and merit bonuses seem balanced more for 5 total merits.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

[quote=SephirothYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

Yeah.. thats why I said it should do more because of the +int.

Burst still does more. (i dont use II because it should be common knowledge)[/quote:c9ae1]

Huh? Freeze is level 50, burst is 56. Do an aeroga III with 5 more int than thundaga III, the thundaga will still do more damage. Same concept with AM.

[SephYuyX]

[quote=Jooeetheplatypus][quote=SephirothYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

Yeah.. thats why I said it should do more because of the +int.

Burst still does more. (i dont use II because it should be common knowledge)[/quote:fb54f]

Huh? Freeze is level 50, burst is 56. Do an aeroga III with 5 more int than thundaga III, the thundaga will still do more damage. Same concept with AM.[/quote:fb54f]

What >.>?

No where did I refer to AM1, why would I talk about AM1 in an AM2 discussion >.>? I was saying when I say Burst or Freeze, I mean Burst2 or Freeze2, it should be common knowledge by now that when talking about one of the AMs, were talking about AM2.

Anyway, every BLM ive seen use the two, Burst does more.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

[quote=SephirothYuyX][quote=Jooeetheplatypus][quote=SephirothYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

Yeah.. thats why I said it should do more because of the +int.

Burst still does more. (i dont use II because it should be common knowledge)[/quote:ddef0]

Huh? Freeze is level 50, burst is 56. Do an aeroga III with 5 more int than thundaga III, the thundaga will still do more damage. Same concept with AM.[/quote:ddef0]

What >.>?

No where did I refer to AM1. I was saying when I say Burst or Freeze, I mean Burst2 or Freeze2, it should be common knowledge by now that when talking about one of the AMs, were talking about AM2.[/quote:ddef0]

Yeah um right... When referring to a spell use its name and not another spell's name please...

But anyways, your experiences are probably because most BLMs have merited Thunder Potency out the ass.

[SephYuyX]

[quote=Jooeetheplatypus][quote=SephirothYuyX][quote=Jooeetheplatypus][quote=SephirothYuyX]

Something to think about is... SE is probably going to raise the combo max for traits/abilities to 10 and each will be capped at 5.

RDM: 1 Dia III, 5 Paralyze II, 4 Slow II
BLM: 4(3?) Burst II, 3 Freeze II, 1(2?) Tornado II, 1 Flood II,

Curious as to why you'd raise Burst II more than Freeze II, which is all around more powerful and much more commonly used.

Ive seen this argument before, the staff has +int on it so it should do more, but ive always seen busrt do more dmg.

Aside, light is used more than dark.

AM1 is tiered, Burst > Freeze. AM2 isnt tiered, Freeze II > Burst II. The only 'tiers' will be Thunder and Blizzard being 'better' since those were usually merited by BLMs before.

Yeah.. thats why I said it should do more because of the +int.

Burst still does more. (i dont use II because it should be common knowledge)[/quote:c7c26]

Huh? Freeze is level 50, burst is 56. Do an aeroga III with 5 more int than thundaga III, the thundaga will still do more damage. Same concept with AM.[/quote:c7c26]

What >.>?

No where did I refer to AM1. I was saying when I say Burst or Freeze, I mean Burst2 or Freeze2, it should be common knowledge by now that when talking about one of the AMs, were talking about AM2.[/quote:c7c26]

Yeah um right... When referring to a spell use its name and not another spell's name please...

But anyways, your experiences are probably because most BLMs have merited Thunder Potency out the ass.[/quote:c7c26]

No, all the BLMs have equal gear/merits with thunder and ice, and Burst has always done more. Seen it in XP PTs, dynamis, Faf and random mobs.