Logging off / shut down really can erase hate?

[Delekii]

7-10 minutes? good luck with that when you are the only whm or bard at a late night tiamat O_O

Don't fight Tiamat with 1 WHM solves your problem

i left my keyboard with the "spawn tiamat when we have the right jobs online" button at my other house

[Delekii]

7-10 minutes? good luck with that when you are the only whm or bard at a late night tiamat O_O

doesnt need to go over board, logging to a mule and back is enough, or shut down (out of pol), by the time you are back you will be fine.

I disagree. I've done this before when curebombing a PMSing tiamat and pulled hate rather quickly. I've seen WHMs and BRDs pull hate after a long log as well.

so your whms and bards pulled hate after a "long" log, meaning that even logging for a long time didnt help? in that case, more than likely your tanks were just doing badly at keeping hate, or taking enough damage that your bards and whms were accruing enough hate quickly enough to get back to dangerous levels.

[Aodh]

If you're at the top of a mob's hate list and you become unreachable (take a spatial displacement in riverne, etc.) when it next looks for you (read: wakes up after being slept) then your hate is automatically reset. Of course, this doesn't help us in HNM situations.

Back in 2004 when my LS was first trying to log hate at Fafnir, we quickly came to the conclusion that simply logging off and then immediately logging back on wasn't clearing hate. Mages who did this would pull hate shortly after logging back in. Staying logged off for a greater amount of time seemed to work, though. I personally use /shutdown but I don't think it matters as long as your character stays out for a certain amount of time (~1 minute?). Maybe the server removes characters who aren't in zone from the hate list every so often?

How's the medicine data compilation coming along?

If the Mob can't path to you then hate is lost just like Ich said. Our AV, the BLMs were on the north side of the 'Wall of Virtue' and dispite throwing 18 Tier IVs and -ga IIIs at him, he would consistantly go unclaimed and try to walk away. If he tries to find you and can't or they're unable to get to you, to him you're clear.

The real proof is during a wipe. If you logout during a wipe, when you log back in you're hate free, everyone else may be dead/dying, but if you keep out of the way he won't come after you. My best guess is that at intervals the mobs check their hate list to see who's still here, so if you're logged out for long enough you'll be completely reset, but if you come back before the next interval then you'll stay on the list.

[Kaylia]

It's not true you lose hate when mob cant path to you. Mob will indeed go after someone else, but he didnt forget you.


Nuke something in riverne with freeze and zone in a teleport while a friend hold the mob. Come back and the mob will come back to you.

[Aodh]

It's not true you lose hate when mob cant path to you. Mob will indeed go after someone else, but he didnt forget you.


Nuke something in riverne with freeze and zone in a teleport while a friend hold the mob. Come back and the mob will come back to you.

If your friend holds the mob then he's not trying to get to you. You have to have hate for them to path to you. As for the Faf example, that's why I think there's a time that it checks the hate list. If you're still logged in then you're on the list. But if you're logged on, on the top of the list and unpathable, then you're dropped and the mob goes after the next person.

[phirien]

i think alot of people mistake logging out for 5minutes by considering it enmity nullification as opposed to enmity reduction. although, it is impossible to ever know for sure.

when you log back in, you wont have hate obviously, but i attribute it to the fact that your character hasn't done anything in the past 5 minutes (since you were logged off) and not all your character's hate being wiped away.

i could be wrong though. safest bet is zoning imo.

[Lordwafik]

a way to kind of prove that your character leaves a "Footprint" behind even if you log off is in dynamis, if you cast lot and fake dc because you lotted shit, and then logged back on, your lot would still be there with the same number as before.

Faf/Whatever NM probably works this way too, but instead of a lot, it's the amount of enmity.

[Archain]

I know logging will reset me to zero in an enemy's hate queue. I usually go THF to our Tiamat fights and try to either do TA+WS or HideSATA+WS into the tank from the front. Here are a few pre-patch shots, but I'm using them to attempt to prove that I am using SA (with TA) under Hide.

• Frontal Hate Staple #1
  Frontal Hate Staple #2
  Frontal Hate Staple #3

The only way Hide (SA enabler from the front) will work is if I've done nothing to introduce myself into it's hate queue, because Tiamat is True Sight any move that adds me to that list will cause an uncovered Hide on use. The beautiful thing is you can maintain a zero position if every attack you perform is linked with Trick Attack and you do nothing beneficial to anyone already entered (Circle abilities, Warcry, healing, etc.). I thought I'd never say that the +Slow on the Hecatomb was a blessing, but it slows follow-on attacks and allows me to disengage prior to conducting one.

TA+WS onto the tank = zero hate for THF, SC damage linked to tank
HideSATA+WS onto the tank = zero hate for THF, SC damage linked to tank

If you build TP on outside enemies and bomb the WS only into Tiamat you can chain Hide repeatedly as it becomes available. Maintaining a zero queue postition will not give the mages, BRD, COR (anyone effecting you in any way) an increase in their amount of enmity with the target. You will also never be drawn in even after all others die.


Short answer!
The reason all of the above is relevant is because sometimes I will throw a stun (THF/DRK) out there (an immeditate introduction into a True Sight queue) that will negate my ability to use Hide again. If I log out to the select character screen for around 1-1.5 mins and log in, I am able to use Hide without being uncovered by Tiamat (meaning I have completely reset myself to zero). This is the easiest way for me to prove it as Hide will not work if I'm still on the hate list.

It's a complete hate wipe, but I'm not sure if there's any effect on the amount of time at the select screen or not.

[phirien]

a way to kind of prove that your character leaves a "Footprint" behind even if you log off is in dynamis, if you cast lot and fake dc because you lotted shit, and then logged back on, your lot would still be there with the same number as before.

Faf/Whatever NM probably works this way too, but instead of a lot, it's the amount of enmity.

well yeah, the fact that dynamis lots are logged at least shows that SE is capable of retaining information despite a /logout or /shutdown.

but there's also instances where logging will essentially erase your characters actions (claiming a mob while keeping it in its "radius" and logging will clear all hate) so ultimately i'd assume it boils down to what SE decides.

[Don Katsu]

well yeah, the fact that dynamis lots are logged at least shows that SE is capable of retaining information despite a /logout or /shutdown.

but there's also instances where logging will essentially erase your characters actions (claiming a mob while keeping it in its "radius" and logging will clear all hate) so ultimately i'd assume it boils down to what SE decides.

Possibly! They sure as hell don't have a problem taking all your TP when you disconnect.

I'd assume on a longer fight it's safe to log out to allow the tanks to build more hate while your character is pretty much "idle" and not building any. 5 Minutes should be enough time to put you lower on the hate list.

[Kaylia]

It's not true you lose hate when mob cant path to you. Mob will indeed go after someone else, but he didnt forget you.


Nuke something in riverne with freeze and zone in a teleport while a friend hold the mob. Come back and the mob will come back to you.

If your friend holds the mob then he's not trying to get to you. You have to have hate for them to path to you. As for the Faf example, that's why I think there's a time that it checks the hate list. If you're still logged in then you're on the list. But if you're logged on, on the top of the list and unpathable, then you're dropped and the mob goes after the next person.

Unless you're using the wrong wording, you're not "dropped" off the list. It will go after the next people on the hate list, but you're still first and whenever you come back, it will goes after you (unless enmity level change due to time/other action)


Loging for long period/changing region do reset the hate completely because after a while, they are cleaning the hate list with people that were inactive


On a side note, I find funny you can logout for 4 minutes and be remembered by the monster, but doing something as simple as pulling it over a river will reset the hate. Even worst, you can fight it in the middle of the water and lose aggro to someone else at any time.

if you cast lot and fake dc because you lotted shit, and then logged back on, your lot would still be there with the same number as before.

Thanks God it work like this.

Kaylia lots 172 on the Sorcerer's Petasos
/logout
Kaylia lots 322 on the Sorcerer's Petasos
/logout
Kaylia lots 983 on the Sorcerer's Petasos

[Khamsin]

Sometimes I'll get to a point where I'll pull enough hate that's been building over the course of the fight and every time I run away I get drawn in, and it may turn to someone for a second then back to me, so I log out (takes a few tries to not get whacked in the process).

I just do a simple /shutdown, then start up POL again and log in right after, and it seems to work. Whereas before logging out, the mob would keep drawing me in or whacking at me, and it'd be a miracle that I'd be untouched long enough to log, and when I get back, I can spam curaga IIs again and it won't care.

[DrObvious]

i think alot of people mistake logging out for 5minutes by considering it enmity nullification as opposed to enmity reduction. although, it is impossible to ever know for sure.

when you log back in, you wont have hate obviously, but i attribute it to the fact that your character hasn't done anything in the past 5 minutes (since you were logged off) and not all your character's hate being wiped away.

i could be wrong though. safest bet is zoning imo.

Did you read the post above yours? I will also attest that if your ls wipes while you're logged out when you come back the nm will not come for you.