Ridill War VS Axe War With Corsair

[BRP]

I'm pretty sure they are going to raise the caps to 5 single and 10 combo...

[Beowulf]

I just ran through the numbers again and didn't even account for any acc difference between axe/axe and axe/ridill. I'm just going to say that mathematically assuming that the damage equations are correct, there isn't any drastic or major difference between the two.

My assumptions are that ridill by itself attacks 2 times 25% of the time and 3 times 25% of the time. This assumption fits Ryko's observations.

Total damage difference is 3-5% without corsair, 1-3% with, I would hardly call that owning. BTW, if you toss in sam roll there is pretty much no difference since StoreTP favors WS's to DoT.

I LOLed, really. You're absolutely right though! So please stop coming to fafnir for ridill and don't invite Ridill WARs to your party. Stick to THFs, SAMs and DRGs plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Flash]

Beowulf, why would you even put thf in the same category as a sam or a drg for dmg. In the new area's thf do sick damage, and with the dagger boosts even more. If you get halfway smart warriors a thf can keep up with them. Unfortunatley war is the same now as the way ranger used to be, a bunch of imbeciles that can spam WS's but not a whole lot more than that. I understand there are some good warrior's, but really there are not very many, or they are just lazy as fuck to line up.

[DrObvious]

lol

Sorry, but the Subtle Blow trait offered by NIN37 isnt exactly going to reduce the TP given to the mob by 50%.

Because axe/axe wars don't give the mob as much tp as everyone thinks they do. Look at the post directly below yours where even someone arguing with me saying subtle blow is less effective than it really is comes up with the same conclusion I do, that there is no huge tp difference, and that axe/axe gives less tp per round than great axe(which is the post you quoted and loled at).

The mob will have the kind of difference in tp gain using a pld/war over a blink tank would create.

Why are people arguing about tp gain like it matter? Just make a list of every HNM and look at them one by one.

I'm sure we're all aware of that, but then we have people who think war/nin gives the mob 10 billion tp per swing, like Nynja above.

As I already said in a previous post, I'm not saying the amount of TP given is going to be a major factor, I'm just trying to make it clear that SJ Subtle Blow only partially mitigates the extra TP you give because of quick DW hits, it doesn't make you give less TP than other jobs which a lot of people think. I cringe whenever I hear THF/NINs talking about SB as some sort of major advantage (for alliance events), SB+10 is seriously not going to do much of anything.

/thf gives +15 subtle blow, not +10. 75 war/nin casting elemental ninjutsu gives a mob 9 tp. Put on rajas and it gives the mob 8 tp. Obviously that means with rajas + /nin you have at least 20 subtle blow, and 15 w/o.

Running the corrected numbers for axe/axe given in your example, axe/axe gives less tp over time as well as less tp per attack round than great axe does.

Sorry guys. All the people who were saying you should use great axe instead of axe/axe because you gave the hnm more tp were wrong, and you were the ones giving the mob more tp.

Are we comparing WAR/NIN and WAR/THF/DRG/whatever straight meleeing HNMs here? Because like, as far as I know, Subtle Blow doesn't magically vanish, poof!, when you use a 2h weapon, and I'm a bit out of the loop here but I was assuming for tactics like this you'd want to put shadows on melee bashing on HNMs whether they need it for dual wield or not (or they die like that DRK earlier in the thread).

I doubt that really changes anything, other than the TP ratios, but just wanted to point that out.

I don't see anyone using a 2h weapon subbing nin against hnms ever, even against mobs that use blinkable aoe.

edit: it's always possible that subtle blow isn't working the way we think it is, in which case dual wield would, in fact, give more tp to the mob. Everyone assumes it is (weapon tp +3) * sb modified, do we actually know it's not (weapon tp * sb modified +3)?

[epigram]

I LOLed, really. You're absolutely right though! So please stop coming to fafnir for ridill and don't invite Ridill WARs to your party. Stick to THFs, SAMs and DRGs plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I haven't camped fafnir since late '04 after camping it daily for about 8 months. I left end game to take a break to finish my Masters Thesis in Mathematical Statistics. The calculations are pretty straight forward with reasonable estimates. I'm sorry if you lack the ability to grasp such concepts, but ridill is nice, the best single upgrade for a war. BUT, it isn't "OMG!!! I killz myself because I don't have one."

Biggest war upgrades.

Thick/AF --> AF2/Byakko ~4% dmg increase

Thick/AF --> Dusk Gloves ~2% dmg increase

Hauberk + 1 --> Adaman Hauberk 0-3% dmg increase

Maneater --> Ridill 3-5% dmg increase

(keep in mind that if you upgrade one, the next increase is smaller)

I've seen a few parses between maxed out ridill wars vs dual axe wars on deco weapons. The difference is quite small and definitely within the grasp of my 3-5% estimate that I gave.

[Vail]

we had a SAM in CS apollyon use Shikikoyo to fuel our rng/war when we got to the quadav (are farming coin target)

The rng/war was droping up to 3100 sidewinders >_>;; better then doing Kasha/Gekko for only a few hundred that I can tell you much

a SAM with Shikikoyo gets a thumbs up from me for goodness

[aurik]

edit: it's always possible that subtle blow isn't working the way we think it is, in which case dual wield would, in fact, give more tp to the mob. Everyone assumes it is (weapon tp +3) * sb modified, do we actually know it's not (weapon tp * sb modified +3)?

The bolded one is correct.

[DrObvious]

edit: it's always possible that subtle blow isn't working the way we think it is, in which case dual wield would, in fact, give more tp to the mob. Everyone assumes it is (weapon tp +3) * sb modified, do we actually know it's not (weapon tp * sb modified +3)?

The bolded one is correct.

Then my argument stands. Nynja, I'll be waiting for your apology :wink:

[Mugmug]

I LOLed, really. You're absolutely right though! So please stop coming to fafnir for ridill and don't invite Ridill WARs to your party. Stick to THFs, SAMs and DRGs plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I haven't camped fafnir since late '04 after camping it daily for about 8 months. I left end game to take a break to finish my Masters Thesis in Mathematical Statistics. The calculations are pretty straight forward with reasonable estimates. I'm sorry if you lack the ability to grasp such concepts, but ridill is nice, the best single upgrade for a war. BUT, it isn't "OMG!!! I killz myself because I don't have one."

Biggest war upgrades.

Thick/AF --> AF2/Byakko ~4% dmg increase

Thick/AF --> Dusk Gloves ~2% dmg increase

Hauberk + 1 --> Adaman Hauberk 0-3% dmg increase

Maneater --> Ridill 3-5% dmg increase

(keep in mind that if you upgrade one, the next increase is smaller)

I've seen a few parses between maxed out ridill wars vs dual axe wars on deco weapons. The difference is quite small and definitely within the grasp of my 3-5% estimate that I gave.

I have tested and used Axe/Axe, Axe/Joy, Axe/ridill, Ridill/Joy. A Ridill will increase your dmg by a "OMFG LOT". There are a lot more to parses than just what weapons people were using. Merits, who actually vokes, how fast you engage the mob, etc.

Ridill IS that good. I have been meriting for a long time (I've gained a total of 232 merits if you count my de-merits). In all of my experience meriting, Ridill has been the single biggest upgrade my WAR has recieved.

Just my 2 gil!