Quick question about Tomahawk

[Amara]

No, I meant that rampage is not much improved at all by saving tp to 300, and if 200 tp doesn't add much stability, how is 30 going to?

[Kaylia]

You don't really even need to be /thf for it to be good, its not like it doesn't stack on rampage.

I'd rather have a guaranteed double attack weaponskill every 10 minutes than a marginal increase in chance for crit on two weaponskills in 10 minutes, considering that a 300% rampage usually isn't any better than a 100% one, I can't see 30tp (or less) making a difference.

>_> 1 hit on rampage once per 10minutes instead of 20 will add like 150dmg. 30tp 4 time(for 2 WS each) will end up giving you a better average on rampage and DD. Also, it's an AoE buff meaning everyone get more tp, not you only.

And yes, there is a huge difference between rampage at 100% and rampage at 300%. It's still random, but the average will be higher. In anycase, that's why I'm going with lv 3 tomahawk. Meriting the other 2 won't change anything on a long run.

Sounds like a really nice ability to use in a pinch, and a nice short timer. It's like formless strikes for the whole party!

True to some extent, but magic dmg is still different than damage reduction. I dont think tomahawk work during invincible or transmography

[aurik]

Sounds like a really nice ability to use in a pinch, and a nice short timer. It's like formless strikes for the whole party!

True to some extent, but magic dmg is still different than damage reduction. I dont think tomahawk work during invincible or transmography

True, but how often are you hitting stuff with transmography in uncapped situations?

[Kaylia]

You won't even be able to use it once per 20 min if you don't merit it.

I don't think I'd personally put more than one merit into it. But I think its useful to have, even at 20 min, at least. I wouldn't call it a waste.

I didn't said not to merit it, i said not to merit it above 1 because there is no situation where you have to use it more than once per 20 minutes. The only place where it could be useful like I mentioned would be against Wyrm if you're doing many TA+Steelcyclone

[Kaylia]

Sounds like a really nice ability to use in a pinch, and a nice short timer. It's like formless strikes for the whole party!

True to some extent, but magic dmg is still different than damage reduction. I dont think tomahawk work during invincible or transmography

True, but how often are you hitting stuff with transmography in uncapped situations?

Once per mammet rematch I just said a random skill, but many mobs use defense buff that wont be affected by tomahawk.

[aurik]

Sounds like a really nice ability to use in a pinch, and a nice short timer. It's like formless strikes for the whole party!

True to some extent, but magic dmg is still different than damage reduction. I dont think tomahawk work during invincible or transmography

True, but how often are you hitting stuff with transmography in uncapped situations?

Once per mammet rematch I just said a random skill, but many mobs use defense buff that wont be affected by tomahawk.

Chomping at the bit to spend 30k xp into a skill I don't need to use once a week <_<

[Kaylia]

Depend what you do I guess. Limbus, dynamis, and certain HNM are place where you could make a good use of those skill. It's obviously nothing ground breaking that would change the way you play the job, but almost none of the new merit are

[aurik]

Depend what you do I guess. Limbus, dynamis, and certain HNM are place where you could make a good use of those skill. It's obviously nothing ground breaking that would change the way you play the job, but almost none of the new merit are

Only place it makes a real difference is dynamis (pld mobs) and some dynamis crews will just sleep the pld when they invincible.

Almost nowhere in limbus will this ability make a difference. Jellies, vampiric claws are stronger, and I can't think of anything else where blunt damage is just bad. The gigas immune to melee damage, ok probably works there too.

Tomahawk is much stronger because anytime there is a mob with any physical resistance to someone in your alliance it helps--it doesn't have to be strong to blunt AND slashing, which is basically the condition you need if you have done your homework and got vampclaws. And it's short duration / short timer so you can put it on several weak mobs, or repeatedly put it on a strong mob, whereas formless is 3min/10min, so you fire it once and hope that you can get as much duration out of it as possible.

[Kaylia]

When lolhydra has its shield up too. Could probably help for last 2%


How are dmg calculated with that skill? I thought it would work against mob who just used a strong physical buff. Or does it calculate your normal dmg, reduce them than turn it into magic dmg.

[aurik]

When lolhydra has its shield up too. Could probably help for last 2%


How are dmg calculated with that skill? I thought it would work against mob who just used a strong physical buff. Or does it calculate your normal dmg, reduce them than turn it into magic dmg.

It calculates your normal damage, reduces, makes it nonelemental magic (same as chi blast type). It does NOT ignore defense which would have been moderately useful in more places (mob uses huge def buff -> use ability -> buff wears off, turn off ability) and it also doesn't convert WS damage.

[Kaylia]

Kinda lame then. I would still put one point in it for certain situation where mobs pop invincible or w/e, but I guess it wont happen more than once per 15-20min.


Any idea if the skill work on Fortitude or Temperance? No clue if chi blast was working before on Temp, and fortitude might just have a ton of def/vit.


While we are at it. 3-4war cycling tomahawk on Temperance could make the fight shorter if it actually work.

[aurik]

Kinda lame then. I would still put one point in it for certain situation where mobs pop invincible or w/e, but I guess it wont happen more than once per 15-20min.


Any idea if the skill work on Fortitude or Temperance? No clue if chi blast was working before on Temp, and fortitude might just have a ton of def/vit.


While we are at it. 3-4war cycling tomahawk on Temperance could make the fight shorter if it actually work.

No idea about that. IF they are immune to magic damage (temperance?) chance is they are immune to formless. Similarly, grand wyrms take 50% and dynamis statues / besieged mobs take 10% of the already nerfed dmg.

A tomahawk cycle would really kick ass on mobs where tomahawk softens them up a ton because it's a party ability at its core. Formless blows doesn't work that way, it's a selfish ability.

Edit: also, more points doesn't change the timer (its always 10/3) but rather increases the potency by 5%.

[Sonomaa]

did the melee epeen limbus tonight, on a bone mob did zero with slashing on axes, used tomahawk, did 15-20
not a very good return, but only 1 point into it

[Kaylia]

No idea about that. IF they are immune to magic damage (temperance?) chance is they are immune to formless. Similarly, grand wyrms take 50% and dynamis statues / besieged mobs take 10% of the already nerfed dmg.

A tomahawk cycle would really kick ass on mobs where tomahawk softens them up a ton because it's a party ability at its core. Formless blows doesn't work that way, it's a selfish ability.

Basically, formless strike is a skill that allow you to not only have your dmg reduced by the mob's def, but also by the skill itself and magic resist? >_> That's awesome. Why go through one type of dmg reduction when you can go through 3.

Tomahawk is definitively better if what you said about formless is right (and I've no reason to doubt it). It's not a skill you will use every day, but reducing dmg reduction penalty worth it.


The skill is kinda nice to figure what kind of def the monster has too. Some like elemental are obvious, but it's harder to see on HNM if they have a dmg reduction or high def.

did the melee epeen limbus tonight, on a bone mob did zero with slashing on axes, used tomahawk, did 15-20
not a very good return, but only 1 point into it

More point would extend the def down from 15 to 30 and 45 seconds, not potency. I wonder how much the dmg reduction is? Seem around 20% for those, but on elemental, it was doubling my dmg (I doubt it went from 80% --> 60% since my rampage were doing around 500 dmg)

[aurik]

I can usually tell by my damage pattern whether it is high def or damagetype resist <_< but its an acquired skill.

[Kaylia]

I can usually tell by my damage pattern whether it is high def or damagetype resist <_< but its an acquired skill.

Well, high def will give you dmg all over the place ranging from 0 to something better, while damage reduction will give constant dmg. There is still mob I suspect having both, and it's harder to determine what it is.



Hmm, what would be the easiest way to test against phalanx in Ballista?

[Lordwafik]

I can usually tell by my damage pattern whether it is high def or damagetype resist <_< but its an acquired skill.

Well, high def will give you dmg all over the place ranging from 0 to something better, while damage reduction will give constant dmg. There is still mob I suspect having both, and it's harder to determine what it is.



Hmm, what would be the easiest way to test against phalanx in Ballista?

1000 needles!

[Kaelan]

Not sure if Phalanx would work or not given that phalanx is a straight "minus X damage" instead of a percentage damage reduction like Elementals, Bones, etc. have.

Something you could test would be having a WAR attack another person in ballista with his PDIF capped. Target would be wearing -% Phy. Damage gear, but have low defense (berserked NIN/WAR maybe?). Assuming you could pull numbers close to your weapon's damage cap fairly frequently like this (and knew exactly what the number was for the given weapon, considering the fact that you're doing this inside ballista), you could apply Tomahawk, 2hr (for consistency) and see if you consistently hit a "cap" number with Tomahawk on. Compare that to your normal "Cap" number on target with -% Phy. Red. gear but no Tomahawk, and your weapon's damage cap number, and you should get an idea of around how much did Tomahawk lower his Damage Reduction.

Should work, although this probably isn't the simplest way to do it >_>;

[Nagamaki]

Formless is sorta useful for the odd eles/slimes/invicible mobs, nothing common but well, the rest of the MNK group 2 merits aren't exactly world shattering so its pretty easy to fit in lv1 Formless (omg cure II's worth in regen!!!!).

[SassiAsura]

(a little off topic) War Charge really does shine for HNMs where a War would use a GA. I meritted it and will keep meriting it because War is my only L75 job I do contribute to my LS. Having the ability to use it every 10minutes during something like Kirin is quite tempting IMO.

Now, something WC lets us pull off is doing Mighty Strikes SATA Steel Cyclone and noticing a damage increase (if the DA doesn't miss ^^. Otherwise without DA Mighty Strikes and SA would be far too redundant and not change a damn thing from my understanding. Unfortunatly I don't bring /thf often enough to events to toy around with this.