Caverns of Flames

[Quicklet]

because elitism is fun

Damn straight it is.

[Septimus]

Speaking of maps/areas that may or may not have been implemented yet;

Anyone seen that map named "The Last Stand"? It's really neat, wonder what it could/was intended to be used for. Check it out with EWH or something if you haven't. ;o

Isnt the "the last stand" a cutscene map for CoP? Might be wrong

I think that someone once mentioned that the Empyreal Paradox was called "The Last Stand" before they changed the names of the Limbus zones to Apollyon and Temenos. (They were Lower Promyvion and O'something-or-other Obelisk when CoP was first released. The Obelisk was mentioned by name in one of the mission cutscenes.) But if it has a map, then it could not be the Empyreal Paradox since no BC zones have maps.

[Suiram]

My understanding was the Last Stand was a Zilart zone. Anyhow, if you read the dialog for it, it feels like the Stellar Fulcrum, except for a lot of weird dialog about plane-shifting. Also, I'm pretty sure if you read the list of zone names, Obelisk and Lower Promyvion are gone and replaced by Apollyon and Temenos, while Last Stand is still in there.

[Illverin]

Speaking of maps/areas that may or may not have been implemented yet;

Anyone seen that map named "The Last Stand"? It's really neat, wonder what it could/was intended to be used for. Check it out with EWH or something if you haven't. ;o

Isnt the "the last stand" a cutscene map for CoP? Might be wrong

I think that someone once mentioned that the Empyreal Paradox was called "The Last Stand" before they changed the names of the Limbus zones to Apollyon and Temenos. (They were Lower Promyvion and O'something-or-other Obelisk when CoP was first released. The Obelisk was mentioned by name in one of the mission cutscenes.) But if it has a map, then it could not be the Empyreal Paradox since no BC zones have maps.

I always assumed the Obelisk zone you are speaking of was something involving those two towers in the Northern half of Sea but alas there was nothing there but an empty white wall . At one point I even think the Obelisk zone (I can't remember the first part either) was in the auto-translator.

[Daahan]

Speaking of maps/areas that may or may not have been implemented yet;

Anyone seen that map named "The Last Stand"? It's really neat, wonder what it could/was intended to be used for. Check it out with EWH or something if you haven't. ;o

Isnt the "the last stand" a cutscene map for CoP? Might be wrong

I think that someone once mentioned that the Empyreal Paradox was called "The Last Stand" before they changed the names of the Limbus zones to Apollyon and Temenos. (They were Lower Promyvion and O'something-or-other Obelisk when CoP was first released. The Obelisk was mentioned by name in one of the mission cutscenes.) But if it has a map, then it could not be the Empyreal Paradox since no BC zones have maps.

I always assumed the Obelisk zone you are speaking of was something involving those two towers in the Northern half of Sea but alas there was nothing there but an empty white wall . At one point I even think the Obelisk zone (I can't remember the first part either) was in the auto-translator.

Obelisk Lance?

[Suiram]

Someone haxed into the Obelisk and posted about it a couple weeks before Limbus was released, and what they described sounds exactly like Temenos. Also I take back what I said before about the Last Stand feeling like Stellar Fulcrum, because as I look now I don't see anything that should have led me to that conclusion, though I do still believe it was Zilart.

Edit: Om'hpat i think was the first part.

[Jeryhn]

My understanding was the Last Stand was a Zilart zone. Anyhow, if you read the dialog for it, it feels like the Stellar Fulcrum, except for a lot of weird dialog about plane-shifting. Also, I'm pretty sure if you read the list of zone names, Obelisk and Lower Promyvion are gone and replaced by Apollyon and Temenos, while Last Stand is still in there.

This is correct. The Last Stand is a RoZ zone, and along with the Cavern of Flames, was never released.

The Ou'Hpat Obelisk (which is still in Nag'molada's text for CoP 8-2 cutscene) and Lower Promyvion, were both renamed to Temenos and Apollyon respectively. People used POS hacks to access the Northern half of Al'Taieu before it was released and zoned into the Obelisk and took screenshots (Taj and a few others). Since zoning into Lower Promyvion required targeting a specific marker which didn't work, no one accessed that zone before it became Apollyon.

The Empyreal Paradox was always called that.

[Xiona]

because elitism is fun

its more of a way of life than anything

[Kaylia]

Xiona, quits RL and come back ingame.

[Septimus]

My understanding was the Last Stand was a Zilart zone. Anyhow, if you read the dialog for it, it feels like the Stellar Fulcrum, except for a lot of weird dialog about plane-shifting. Also, I'm pretty sure if you read the list of zone names, Obelisk and Lower Promyvion are gone and replaced by Apollyon and Temenos, while Last Stand is still in there.

This is correct. The Last Stand is a RoZ zone, and along with the Cavern of Flames, was never released.

The Ou'Hpat Obelisk (which is still in Nag'molada's text for CoP 8-2 cutscene) and Lower Promyvion, were both renamed to Temenos and Apollyon respectively. People used POS hacks to access the Northern half of Al'Taieu before it was released and zoned into the Obelisk and took screenshots (Taj and a few others). Since zoning into Lower Promyvion required targeting a specific marker which didn't work, no one accessed that zone before it became Apollyon.

The Empyreal Paradox was always called that.

I just remember someone saying that, I really am not a data miner so I could not say anything for sure.

I wonder, does a zone exist for the Last Stand? And if so, can you view it with the new model viewer?

[Francisco II]

Yeah, SE leaves abandoned .dats laying around all the time... Cavern of Flames = Ifrit's Cauldron.

For example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../oldkuftal.jpg

[Stilgar]

I've always wondered where that map of Kuftal came from. I have it in a JP strat guide thingy.

[Francisco II]

It might have been used at one time. Certain zones were expanded/changed after being implemented.

A couple of years ago, SE took Funnel Bats out of KRT and replaced them with higher level Dire Bats. I also recall their being two tiers of Goblins in the MNK Burn area of KRT, one included Goblin Hunters, Enchanters, Bouncers and the long-lost Goblin Raider, no longer in the game. The other included Goblin Bandits, Mercanaries, Alchemists, Shepards and possibly one other... I think Spartoi mobs were only in the secret room donut... maybe in Vrtra's room if it was even there at the time.

I used to have a link to a site that listed all the monster placement changes, but I lost it... it even included stuff from beta (the Dhalmels in Tahrongi were called "Catoblepas" and there was a "Lapis Lazuli Quadav")...

Side Note: I've always wondered what the level cap was when Serket/Roc/Behemoth/3 Kings etc were first implemented, and how the JP fared against them (wish there were some videos)... I know Fafnir would sit up unclaimed for DAYS at a time...

[aurik]

It might have been used at one time. Certain zones were expanded/changed after being implemented.

A couple of years ago, SE took Funnel Bats out of KRT and replaced them with higher level Dire Bats. I also recall their being two tiers of Goblins in the MNK Burn area of KRT, one included Goblin Hunters, Enchanters, Bouncers and the long-lost Goblin Raider, no longer in the game. The other included Goblin Bandits, Mercanaries, Alchemists, Shepards and possibly one other... I think Spartoi mobs were only in the secret room donut... maybe in Vrtra's room if it was even there at the time.

I used to have a link to a site that listed all the monster placement changes, but I lost it... it even included stuff from beta (the Dhalmels in Tahrongi were called "Catoblepas" and there was a "Lapis Lazuli Quadav")...

Side Note: I've always wondered what the level cap was when Serket/Roc/Behemoth/3 Kings etc were first implemented, and how the JP fared against them (wish there were some videos)... I know Fafnir would sit up unclaimed for DAYS at a time...

Pretty sure the level cap was 70 when faf/aspid/KB were added. Behemoth was added long before, though. You can infer a lot of this from the patch notes (edit: and also the use for the synth mats they drop) as they often say "moved monsters around" when they restructure a zone.

Also note that the "old-nation" verm/haub/byrnie/harness item group all take lv69~ craftskill to make, and require under lv ~60, so you can infer that these were the uberleetsauce endgame items back when they bumped the cap to 60 and craft cap to 70, which was around November 2002.

And I remember when Tiamat would sit up unclaimed for days at a time. In fact it took my server almost 4 months to kill him for the first time.

[Wizerd]

It might have been used at one time. Certain zones were expanded/changed after being implemented.

A couple of years ago, SE took Funnel Bats out of KRT and replaced them with higher level Dire Bats. I also recall their being two tiers of Goblins in the MNK Burn area of KRT, one included Goblin Hunters, Enchanters, Bouncers and the long-lost Goblin Raider, no longer in the game. The other included Goblin Bandits, Mercanaries, Alchemists, Shepards and possibly one other... I think Spartoi mobs were only in the secret room donut... maybe in Vrtra's room if it was even there at the time.

I used to have a link to a site that listed all the monster placement changes, but I lost it... it even included stuff from beta (the Dhalmels in Tahrongi were called "Catoblepas" and there was a "Lapis Lazuli Quadav")...

Side Note: I've always wondered what the level cap was when Serket/Roc/Behemoth/3 Kings etc were first implemented, and how the JP fared against them (wish there were some videos)... I know Fafnir would sit up unclaimed for DAYS at a time...

I was there first time the JP killed KB on Titan. Lavish's LS, and I don't remember too well but I think they ended up teaming up with another, too. It took about 45-50 people for them to finally kill it, on the third try or so. Chi Blast and Spirits Within was their primary damage, and tons of people constantly died to Meteor. They had full raising and curing stations setup, and they were nice enough to raise me a few times. I think I was lv50 or something, or maybe lv30-40ish. It was shortly after or shortly before the cap was raised to 75.. I think just before? Shining Cloth dropped, and they had no idea what it was used for. XD

[Fayttt]

i wonder if the caverns of flame just aren't finished yet, its obvious SE abandoned it but..if you go behind the NPC by AH in kazham there is a tunnel thing that just is incomplete that would zone somewhere (it looks that way, anyway)..so possibly SE just hasnt finished it yet and is still working on it?

i can see the comparison to ifrit's cauldron, but why would they split a two map zone to nine maps? doesn't make sense to me

[Raineh]

i can see the comparison to ifrit's cauldron, but why would they split a two map zone to nine maps? doesn't make sense to me

<Insert random and vauge "Ps2 limitations" responce>

[Fayttt]

yeah, they probably would say that too >.>

[Septimus]

Yeah, SE leaves abandoned .dats laying around all the time... Cavern of Flames = Ifrit's Cauldron.

For example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../oldkuftal.jpg

Yeah, looking at the "Cavern of Flames" map, it just looks like a better version of the Ifrit's Cauldron map because it is on two pages instead of the current eleventy-billion. (I like this Kuftal Tunnel map for the same reason, I never understood why the first floor was divided into two maps.)

But anyway, could someone post a picture of the Last Stand's map(s)? I am curious to see if it is just a combination of existing maps or something unique. Maybe you get there through the green teleporters in sky. :D

[Kaylia]

But anyway, could someone post a picture of the Last Stand's map(s)? I am curious to see if it is just a combination of existing maps or something unique. Maybe you get there through the green teleporters in sky. Very Happy

That would be interesting. I always thought those teleport would bring us on one of the smaller island or something.


About Kuftal, maybe they cut down the map when they added the "top right" section to it. The long path that goes downstair