Conclusive evidence for the avatar Alexander?

[Kuropiko]

Well, since the star chart also has Behemoth, Tonberry, Chocobo, Cactuar, Moogle, Vulture and Bomb, Alexander doesn't HAVE to be a celestial avatar, same for Odin. They should exist but nothing tells us they are indeed avatars.

[Nirokun!]

Well, since the star chart also has Behemoth, Tonberry, Chocobo, Cactuar, Moogle, Vulture and Bomb, Alexander doesn't HAVE to be a celestial avatar, same for Odin. They should exist but nothing tells us they are indeed avatars.

thats what is being debated in this thread

well, dark rider is odin or you fail lol

and basically ppl are debating alexander's existence in and around al'zhabi

[Rocl]

I think he's saying just because it has a constellation doesnt mean it's an avatar or summonable. However, all the summonable (celestial) avatars contain a highlighted star, along with both Odin and Alexander soooo

[Nirokun!]

I think he's saying just because it has a constellation doesnt mean it's an avatar or summonable. However, all the summonable (celestial) avatars contain a highlighted star, along with both Odin and Alexander soooo

that has been said about pheonix, bahamut, and diablos before CoP came out

they're on the charts, too~ and they are celestial avatars, but they're not necessarily all summonable, just diabolos is

the thread is just a little think-tank for the possibilities :3

if warriors saw like... a giant RIDILL-LIKE-OBJECT occasionaly wailing down on besieged mobs say~ 2-3 times, warriors would be like... "hay lets make a thread guys, i think this is a Ridill, lets talk about it lolz"

[Kitha]

I think he's saying just because it has a constellation doesnt mean it's an avatar or summonable. However, all the summonable (celestial) avatars contain a highlighted star, along with both Odin and Alexander soooo

that has been said about pheonix, bahamut, and diablos before CoP came out

they're on the charts, too~ and they are celestial avatars, but they're not necessarily all summonable, just diabolos is

the thread is just a little think-tank for the possibilities :3

No, they're not all celestial avatars; there are terrestrial ones too, which is the group that pheonix, bahamut, diabolos, etc fall under. You should know this as a SMN! Spreading villianous lies and treacherous misinformation, not surprising from a tarutaru though <_< hohoho j/k...mostly :P

Firstly, there are two sets of avatars (summons) Terrestrial and Celestial.

Terrestrial (dealing with aspects of the world of Vana'diel, and thus why they don't appear on the starchart in Windurst)
Carbuncle: Bringer of rainbows
Fenrir: Guardian of the moon
Bahamut: King of the skies
Phoenix: Fiery bird of rebirth (forged into Tenzen's great katana)
Diabolos: Keeper of the realm of dreams (Dynamis)

Celestial (aka "from the heavens (sky)" = constellations, with prime stars based off their inherent element and thusly found on the starchart in Windurst)
Ramuh (Olduum)
Ifrit (Falbub)
Leviathan (Veydal)
Garuda (Vuychap)
Titan (Daemdalus)
Shiva (Aeomatra)
Odin (Sleipnir)
Alexander (Gordius)

About the whole Alzadaal Ruins = Alexander possibility... I wasn't very clear in my wording explaining it. In my mind, the "mysterious power" used to build the "foundation of an enormous empire" was referring to the technology used to build undersea ruins being the same as that used in Alexander, not that the ruins were literally Alexander. Kind of an off-kilter semi-literal interpretation if you will, as if Alzadaal's engineer/alchemist dudes were like "oh hey we got this cool robot guy with gears and pistons and gadgets and stuff lets use some of that kinda stuff to make a chillin' pad down in the sea"

[Nirokun!]

i never remember the difference

[Kuropiko]

i never remember the difference

Terrestrial Avatars existed when the "universe" was born, as Celestial Avatars appeared when Promathia "died" and Vana'diel appeared.

What i meant in my previous post is that Odin and Alexander do exist, as the Dark Rider and supposedly Alzadaal or something else, but i think they're not Avatars. ^^

I'm totally for the option Alzadaal = Alexander, get all Astral Candescences and you control it. But i really wonder how they would render that in cut scenes unless Alexander never gets awaken in the storyline, which would kinda suck because everyone would look forward to see him in action.

... Or maybe, like said in a previous post, Alzadaal was just created based on Alexander's technology or power and the real Alexander is smaller and we'll get to see it.

Bad guys getting all 5 AC's, gaining control of Alexander and having you fight it ? That would be great.

But hum... I'll stop that speculations here or this will turn into a zam post. 8)

[BRP]

Terrestrial Avatars existed when the "universe" was born, as Celestial Avatars appeared when Promathia "died" and Vana'diel appeared.

Um no.

Spoiler ahead... although, most people have done the things that tell you this.

They both existed before Vana'diel was born. The Celestrials were gods, not sure in relation to Altana and Promathia, but gods none the less. The Terrestrials were normal beings(possibly simply animals) in Paradise. When Vana'diel was born, the Celestrials slept and the Terrestrials became the god-like beings we know to day. Not sure how, but doesn't change much. The Terrestrials' power will disappear if Vana'diel returned to their older, weaker state. At one point, the Celestrials will awaken after being summoned enough, and the two forces will fight it out.

People if you don't know what you're talking about, don't correct people about it.

Here is an easy way to remember it.

Celestrial means in the sky, or in some cases because of heaven being in the sky, holy. Celestrial Avatars are in the stars.

Terrestrial means on land... or in this case, on earth. Terrestrial Avatars gain their power in Vana'diel.

Now... what confuses me is that Alexander and Odin are both obviously the Celestrial Avatars of Light and Dark, however Odin(at least of what we know) is alive and well, awake and running about. They may be higher or lower tier compared to the other Celestrials, but whatever it is, they are obviously special.

[Kuropiko]

Hmm yeah my bad, i inverted Terrestrial and Celestial but that's pretty much what i meant, thus why Bahamut and friends don't want the Sleeping Gods to awaken.

As for the Avatar status, i really think Alexander is just some kind of animated machine and Odin is a powerful entity acting by itself or being controlled by someone, but not 100% surely Avatars.

Well... They can be Avatars, they can be something else, i just guess we cannot know this before a few months, until then these are just speculations and theories... Just pretty sure Alexander WILL be part of ToAU's storyline at some point.

Edit : Still i didn't notice the fact that all Avatar constellations have that highlighted star... So i really don't know... How would some god that's meant to sleep walk around killing things by night ?

[Khamsin]

Celestial avatars weren't around when Vana'diel was born. Celestial avatars were normal people (or animals in the case of Leviathan) that were called up to the Celestial Plane by Altana after their deaths. But before they became avatars, they lived in Vana'diel doing normal people things. Ramuh, for example, lived in Olduum. Obviously Olduum wasn't around before Vana'diel was born.. its a part of Vana'diel and was built by the people that lived there.

[BRP]

Celestial avatars weren't around when Vana'diel was born. Celestial avatars were normal people (or animals in the case of Leviathan) that were called up to the Celestial Plane by Altana after their deaths. But before they became avatars, they lived in Vana'diel doing normal people things. Ramuh, for example, lived in Olduum. Obviously Olduum wasn't around before Vana'diel was born.. its a part of Vana'diel and was built by the people that lived there.

Hello2uMyths

Those are myths made by people in Vana'diel and probably half true. If anything, these beings were called up to take the form of existing gods.

[DeadLegend]

Besides the Titan one they all sounded more like legend than myth, that is, having an original basis in history, but since there's no friggin history library in jeuno (there should be) we can't know for sure. Also, having alexander as a tank avatar would be pretty cool, you wouldn't have to worry about stealing hate with claustrum solo.

[Brendam]

Hm, If they class Odin with the other (Garuda ect.) Avatars... maybe that means that they are starting to wake up and hes is the first one on the hunt... thus poping up in diffrent zones.

Or, Odin is a Chimera that has become a Celestial, but for some reason is able to controll himself, or as others have been saying is being controlled by some other special force... He pops with a Demon and an Imp, so its obviously dark forces.

k, im dont typing... dont know if any of that makes any sense, im just kinda piecing together thoughts.

Edit: Has anyone noticed any connection between Odin (lolDarkRider) to Besieged? Like attack = Odin out, or something along those lines.

[Kuropiko]

Not related to Besieged at all, i think. Actually the Dark Rider pops at every place that's connected with Alzadaal + Wajaom (nor really far from Bhaflau) so i think some time later we'll find out his lair is somewhere in the Ruins (new Assaults at Nyzul Isle ?).

[Vobent]

derail

WTF@above sig

/derail

<3 alexander

continue

[GlennXI]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...alexempres.jpg

Could be quite a few things like:
1- The empress is alexander which face is covered by that big carpet.
Says WE as in him and the grand vizier are the empress since the grand vizier is the only one that knows its identity and runs the empire.
(grand vizier says something to the empress in the lines of "be more discrete, what would people say if they find out your true identity") So empress = alexander = alzabi/whitegate or the 3rd section which is the actual castle.

2- Could be that the alzadal ruins is alexander but inactive atm due to not having all the astral candecenses but would lead to who is the empress? (the 2 pillars in the empress room are the exact same ones as the ones in the alzadal ruins which leads to assumption #3)

3- Both Alzadal and Alzabi were built with the same technology to run by the power of the astral candecenses. (and like it says on the story that alzabi destroyed alzadal) But another question pops into mind: Did the empire had all the ACs to win and did they get stolen by the beastmen so now the empire is tracking the ACs down.

No choice but to wait until they release the rest of the plot :O

[Xajii]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...alexempres.jpg

Could be quite a few things like:
1- The empress is alexander which face is covered by that big carpet. (grand vizier says something to the empress in the lines of "be more discrete, what would people say if they find out your true identity") So empress = alexander = alzabi/whitegate or the 3rd section which is the actual castle.

2- Could be that the alzadal ruins is alexander but inactive atm due to not having all the astral candecenses but would lead to who is the empress? (the 2 pillars in the empress room are the exact same ones as the ones in the alzadal ruins which leads to assumption #3)

3- Both Alzadal and Alzabi were built with the same technology to run by the power of the astral candecenses. (and like it says on the story that alzabi destroyed alzadal) But another question pops into mind: Did the empire had all the ACs to win and did they get stolen by the beastmen so now the empire is tracking the ACs down.

No choice but to wait until they release the rest of the plot :O

that or the npc that said all that is just a wackjob

[aurik]

"We" is proper english, even if the empress is one person; all monarchs refer to themselves in the plural because they represent all the vassals in their realm.

[GlennXI]

Just made a little edit on the post but putting it here also:
"we" as in him and the grand vizier are the empress since the grand vizier is the only one that knows its identity and runs the empire. But yea its another "could be" thing.
Now that i look at it, isnt Nasmeira one of the puppets? maybe the girl in white is the daughter of the kin/queen that are now dead but why would the puppets have a big role, maybe crazy SE makes something up as in the alchemists did something to them like they do to chimeras and are still alive in the puppets... funny how a topic can be streched to much on pure speculation lol

[BRP]

The Empress is or was human. This is for sure.