Conclusive evidence for the avatar Alexander?

[Kyreth]

Nyzul Isle is likely to be an Assault area, judging by the Runic Seal guarding it, and the proximity of a Runic Portal.

The Remnants, I think, will be the locations of the other four Astral Candesences that are said to be within the Ruins.

That there's a blank counter at the Assault listings tells me we have at least one more area set up for doing something along those lines in the future.

[GRT]

Alexander to ToAU would likely be Bahamut to CoP, avatar indeed but not player-controllable, because well, since it's supposed to be so gigantic SE doesn't feel like degrading its power and status and make it a summonable avatar, same thing they said about Bahamut

and the lesser avatar would probably be summonable which is Odin, like Diabolos in CoP

[Nirokun!]

i really want to refrain from posting on this topic so late at night, absolutely knowing it will sound/smell/taste zammy~ but hey

im a sumnar, and i fucking love the job~

i really wish they'd include another form of summoning outside of /ma "avatar" <me>, then alt+b pet commands~ there is so little we do outside of issuing commands

i really wish we could make pacts with more than just avatars in their BCs, and buy the summoned spirit pacts~ i'd like to do it in the field. we already have elementals floating around, but you cant make pacts with them, (oh god pokemon) wouldnt it be fun to trap them for their power to boost our spirits? or have a "NM" pop with elemental weather that, when engaged by any other job that smn, does damage and drops PC HP to 1 before running off~. Summoner's could challenge these NMs all around the world to forge and re-forge pacts with them. I think that would be fun :D

It would make summoner more hands-on~ im sure some people would be lazy and complain about re-forging pacts with NM Avatars in rare weather, and the fact that they only appear in their own weather...and other summoners would camp against you... BUT STILL! it would be awesome to challenge avatars on a regular basis less-than-domestic avatars would be fun to tame by rocking them with their opposite element :3

hey! it wouldnt even have to be avatars, it could be on the level of more powerful spirits! just give the HQ crystal names to avatars, Torrent Spirit, Terra Spirit, etc~ that would be cool :3

Oh uh, alexander >_> i never really liked him, its like a giant building so ugly I do, however, like the idea of multiple summoner's summoning a single, extremely powerful avatar, sharing perpetuation costs, and suffering double weakness after mp runs out. That wouldnt be too bad >_> and you know summoners are supposed to rock face anyways >_> wtf war/nin isnt supposed to be as powerful as alexander, alexander should hit for 400, do a special for >_>! 8-12k, and maybe last only 1min >_> thats not too too strong :3. Maybe need a full PT of 6 smn to summon it :DDDDDD 1 week recast time to request him every week for a smn-only quest, 75 onry

LS> did you guys get alexander this week? we were gonna do ultima but we're short on blms.
Nirokun> well i did, but Elixia has been away, and fryte was at work, but i think he got it while i was asleep. dunno about slone/kuno/enitsu.
Nirokun> sendoh did you get it?
Sendoh> >.> =P
Nirokun> you lazy bastard, why even lvl smn if you're not gonna be serious about it should have known ;(
Sendoh> ask uh
Sendoh> Enitsu?
Nirokun> i said him already, we're missing some
Sendoh> Tonko?
Tonkukakdakaifaojdiutojkgaki> ?
Sendoh> get alexander this week?
Tonkoakdfugkdjdflkladkfgki> yeah, dont you remember me asking you to come and get it this week?
Sendoh> >.> =P
Nirokun> sendoh you're a bastard and i hate you
Septimus> lol

But seriously, i want to fight stuff regularly, i want to forge these pacts SE, make it happen

Nirokun has declared a challenge to Tonberry Spirit!
Tonberry Spirit cannot escape the field! Let the battle commence!
Nirokun starts casting Garuda.
Tonberry Spirit takes 1 step towards Nirokun.
Tonberry Spirit takes 1 step towards Nirokun.
Tonberry Spirit takes 1 step towards Nirokun.
Nirokun casts Garuda.
Tonberry Spirit takes 1 step towards Nirokun.
Garuda hits the Tonberry spirit for 98 points of damage.
Nirokun casts Dia.
Tonberry Spirit takes 1 point of damage.
Tonberry Spirit hits Garuda for 128 points of damage.
Garuda readies Predator Claws.
Tonberry Spirit readies Everyone's Rancor.
Garuda uses Predator Claws. Tonberry Spirit takes 1778 points of damage.
Garuda defeats Tonberry Spirit.
Battle Concluded! Tonberry Spirit concedes defeat!
You can summon "Tonberry Spirit" 3 times.
Nirokun> i gotr it!
Blazer> got what?
Abood> ?
Nirokun> tonberry spirit
Abood> grats
Blazer> o.O? what does it do?
Nirokun> Everyone's Rancor :D
Blazer> didnt you reset your tonberry hate yesterday?
Nirokun> ...
Ulmega> owned fag
Nirokun> shutup chav! lets go kill tonberries!
Ulmega> no
Nirokun> i'll change to whm, R3 :D
Ulmega> fuck no
Nirokun> fine, anyone want to kill tonberries? >.>
...
Nirokun> hate you guys carbuncle is my favorite LS member anyways
Enitsu> CANT MAKE FRIENDS LOLZ
Nirokun> BUT I CAN SUMMON THIS LITTLE BASTARD AND TELL HIM WHAT TO DO, ITS A BETTER FRIEND THAN YOU
Ulmega> ask enitsu? he's a mnk too you know
Nirokun> can lure him out with refreshing WATERMELON
Enitsu> I dont like watermelon you semen sponge
Nirokun>
Nirokun> creative
Ulmega> lolol
Nirokun> <3

(the end of that was actual LS chat (*'-'))

[Krandor]

[Anyway]

FFXI =/= Captain Planet.

[Charla]

Meeeee-Teeeee-Oooorrrrr

anyone?

[Nirokun!]

Meeeee-Teeeee-Oooorrrrr

anyone?

in more than just those tarus~

even the blms in the intro scene cast together to cast a big spell (looks like meteor, but whatever)

people in this game work together to do big things~

PTs, alliances, skillchains, dynamis

if melees can do skillchains, why cant mages (summoners in particular) work together to summon more powerful things?

i was reading the translated tribunes, the one that about carbuncle included basically that, the reporter wanted to interview carbuncle, but the summoner told him that she(?) couldnt do that, because of the danger and strain on the summoner to summon and keep an avatar in vanadiel~

is it such a far stretch to believe summoner's could band together to share the strain (perpetuation cost) of a more powerful avatar? we are listed as the 'heretic mages', we're supposed to do dangerous things :3

[Heian]

Meeeee-Teeeee-Oooorrrrr

anyone?

in more than just those tarus~

even the blms in the intro scene cast together to cast a big spell (looks like meteor, but whatever)

people in this game work together to do big things~

PTs, alliances, skillchains, dynamis

if melees can do skillchains, why cant mages (summoners in particular) work together to summon more powerful things?

i was reading the translated tribunes, the one that about carbuncle included basically that, the reporter wanted to interview carbuncle, but the summoner told him that she(?) couldnt do that, because of the danger and strain on the summoner to summon and keep an avatar in vanadiel~

is it such a far stretch to believe summoner's could band together to share the strain (perpetuation cost) of a more powerful avatar? we are listed as the 'heretic mages', we're supposed to do dangerous things :3

It really is a good idea and I don't see why they don't do it. With BLMs I can understand to some degree why, but why not SMNs they are just as broken as BLM. It could add alot more depth to HNM/Endgame than just MBing/BPingevery60seconds.

[Khamsin]

I wouldn't mind Alexander if they could make it into a clutch tank, just for a change of pace. Give it the following characteristics and we'd be set:

Cut physical damage by 75% instead of 50% like the other avatars.
Twice the HP as other avatars.
Make healing done by avatars actually pull appropriate hate.

Blood Pacts
Judgement (AF: Level 1)
For old times sake.

Threaten (Level 5)
Provoke ability that grabs the equivalent in hate as if Alexander did his own HP's worth of damage.

Holy (Level 10)
Holy damage.

Flash (Level 27)
I know, but hey, Rolling Thunder and Frost Armor last just as long and are just as useful.

Purification (Level 34)
AoE erase + -na, but does not heal HP like Spring Water.

White Wind (Level 45)
On par with Healing Ruby II. (Garuda gets Whispering Wind 9 levels earlier, and Spring Water heals status ailments, so this should fit just fine)

Holy II (Level 60)
Holier damage.

Steamroller (Level 70)
Single hit physical damage + temporary ballista provoke effect (i.e. temporarily forces mob to target him no matter who has the most hate)

Renewal (Merit)
Heal Alexander only for 25/50/75% of his max HP depending on level of merit. Level 2 additionally hits party members with Curaga. Level 3 hits party members with Curaga II.

[Charla]

Personally I think they'd have done it by now at least for group black magic (twin flare!) if the engine could handle it without alteration. They aren't going to make someone sift through 3-4 years of spaghetti code and probably break something else to implement support for a gimmick, and anything better than a gimmick would raise an inevitable cry of "nerf blm/smn".

edit:

Steamroller (Level 70)
Single hit physical damage + temporary ballista provoke effect (i.e. temporarily forces mob to target him no matter who has the most hate)

That's just great until 5 smns can just keep rotating it and castrate any mob in existance. Unless it's like 300-500 mp per use, and thats a little stupid. Also, adding even more hp and damage reduction would be total overkill.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

It really is a good idea and I don't see why they don't do it. With BLMs I can understand to some degree why, but why not SMNs they are just as broken as BLM. It could add alot more depth to HNM/Endgame than just MBing/BPingevery60seconds.

Well SMNs CAN sc. People just choose not to do it with them. And it wouldnt add depth really, just more sc type things and possibly 1 nuke instead of 2 depending on implementation. Adding bonuses for more SCs set up instead of just 1 on HNM would add much more depth. Maybe lower SC resist rate and increase MB damage.

[Khamsin]

Personally I think they'd have done it by now at least for group black magic (twin flare!) if the engine could handle it without alteration. They aren't going to make someone sift through 3-4 years of spaghetti code and probably break something else to implement support for a gimmick, and anything better than a gimmick would raise an inevitable cry of "nerf blm/smn".

edit:

Steamroller (Level 70)
Single hit physical damage + temporary ballista provoke effect (i.e. temporarily forces mob to target him no matter who has the most hate)

That's just great until 5 smns can just keep rotating it and castrate any mob in existance. Unless it's like 300-500 mp per use, and thats a little stupid. Also, adding even more hp and damage reduction would be total overkill.

If you're worried about SMN getting together and raping any mob in existance, SMN can already do this now. Ever see a Garuda-burn Tiamat? Having a tank avatar would slow this process down, in a burn situation. An alliance of all SMN would still just cycle tons of Garudas/Leviathans on a mob, and not bother with Alexander if he was introduced as I laid out.

When summoners are in the company of other summoners, nobody cares about hate because it doesn't matter. We don't exist to mobs. When a summoner is paired with a non-summoner, then hate becomes a real issue. I often warn people who want to duo with me as a non-summoner that I can't save them if they pull hate. If I'm carby kiting a tough mob, and someone casts dia or cures me "to help me out", they're only going to get themselves killed.

If we had a tank avatar, we could actually duo with people and fight T+ mobs and not have to tell our partners to sit down and watch us so they don't get killed.

Also, given that (on high level mobs) you'd be relying on your avatar to keep hate and not die, or else all that hate you've built up is reset and people are going to be eating dirt. This means you cannot rest, and you still have perpetuation cost. So it'll really only be effective if you can have a RDM, BRD and/or COR (at least two of the three) and good gear to keep you going.

[Nirokun!]

It really is a good idea and I don't see why they don't do it. With BLMs I can understand to some degree why, but why not SMNs they are just as broken as BLM. It could add alot more depth to HNM/Endgame than just MBing/BPingevery60seconds.

Well SMNs CAN sc. People just choose not to do it with them. And it wouldnt add depth really, just more sc type things and possibly 1 nuke instead of 2 depending on implementation. Adding bonuses for more SCs set up instead of just 1 on HNM would add much more depth. Maybe lower SC resist rate and increase MB damage.

SATA adds depth and variety, to tank formations and tank variety

including new group-summoned avatars could do the same it would definately add some organization to the typical BP>Release>Rest>BP>Release>Rest routine, and it wouldnt overpower the job at a solo level obviously, but a lot of the awe that has been associated with summoner throughout the ff series is lost in ffxi because we lack a lot of the raw power associated with summoners~ even karuha-baruha in the mission stories had a FEARSOME fenrir who's 'aura' vaporized nearby beastman, and drove back thousands (ten thousand?) beastman from an attack from the shadowlord

now obviously, my puppy shouldnt destroy all of ule[tab] range, but avatars are seriously weakened (i understand its a fraction of their true power, but come on) but a fenrir summoned by 6 summoners should kill an IT++ with ease (new way to merit! :Q)

[Alisha]

i know some summoners probally dont want to hear this but i will be pretty disapointed if alexander becomes summonable without a link to puppetmasters. be it summonable only by pup or frame parts that drop off his fight.

[Nirokun!]

i know some summoners probally dont want to hear this but i will be pretty disapointed if alexander becomes summonable without a link to puppetmasters. be it summonable only by pup or frame parts that drop off his fight.

well i was reading the vanadiel history page, and part of the summoner af storyline involves a mage who's special skill involves filling puppets with spirits and power

when i think about alexander and his relation to puppetmasters i see only them building the form, nothing to do with the spirit nor its summoning ;x thats just my view

[Khamsin]

It could also be that Alexander is a true avatar, not a manmade automaton. However, the idea of automatons and puppetmasters might have been inspired by Alexander, to create puppets like him, that are just manmade creations.

Or, perhaps there is a backstory to Alexander we don't know about yet about his ascension to celestial avatar status.

If it is anything like the other celestial avatars, Alexander was, at one point, your average everyday giant living robot. However, due to something that Altana found noble or worthy, and after meeting an untimely or unfair end, Altana called Alexander up to the astral plane to be a celestial avatar. Typically, the avatars in the backstories either were faced with a moral dilemma and made a noble decision despite it causing their own downfall (or denial of pride or revenge), or did something noble to begin with that was unfairly met with ridicule, skepticism, etc. ultimately leading to their downfall (and got no appreciation for their work). Basically, a tragedy in the literary sense.

So either Alexander was born/created long before Alzadaal was, and through some tragic story, he was chosen to become a celestial avatar and later for some reason lent his power to Alzadaal... or Alzadaal created Alexander, and through some tragic story, his spirit taken to the astral plane to become one of the avatars, though obviously his structure is still around. Due to that inconsistency, I'm guessing its the first option: Alexander is more ancient than Alzadaal, and the emperor just somehow managed to be able to summon him and keep him around, and he's never been released.

Afterall, the celestial primes are in protocrystals. Alexander is a celestial avatar, according to the star charts, but if Alzadaal ruins are really him, he's obviously not in a protocrystal. This could mean that Alexander Prime is sleeping in his crystal, while the Alzadaal ruins are a manafestation of his power that is perpetuated through some unknown means powerful enough to keep an avatar of his size out indefinitely.

[Elcura]

I thought that Alexander basically created Automatons, or at least the soul for them, and people just made frames to harness them. I can really see Alexander being a PUP thing, seeing as this is ToAU and PUPs needs a little umph.

[Alisha]

given the prevelance of chimeras in ToAU i would not be at all suprized if alexander is a manmade/artificial avatar. however the fact that he is on the starchart creates a problem with that idea.

[Elcura]

Alexander is still an avatar, but who says he can't model something based on himself? Or who says WE can't model something based on him (with things from him), like making an Ifrit or Garuda automaton using Ifrit's horn or Garuda's feather?

[Nirokun!]

Afterall, the celestial primes are in protocrystals. Alexander is a celestial avatar, according to the star charts, but if Alzadaal ruins are really him, he's obviously not in a protocrystal. This could mean that Alexander Prime is sleeping in his crystal, while the Alzadaal ruins are a manafestation of his power that is perpetuated through some unknown means powerful enough to keep an avatar of his size out indefinitely.

protect the astral candescense at all costs adventurers!

return the astral candescense at all costs adventurers!

orly?