MND/HNMs and Banish Testing

[Lockecole]

really don't need ballista test: just use the black magic damage formulas

( (INT vs monsterINT) x tier value ) + spell's base = Damage set
(Damage set x MAB value) x staff/day/weather bonus = accually damage

just replace INT with MND and the tier value for Banish III is 1.5, the spell's base I don't know

to find the spell's base just go abs-mnd a LV1 monster so you know all values except the spell's base

using a whm just don;t sub blm or rdm and don't wear a staff so you can factor off MAB staff/day/weather bonuses

I did this test along time ago, I never really wrote it down, but Tiamat had 80+/-5 MND from memory

just takes alittle alegebra, nothing to advanced

Ok, I'll stick with this for now, thanx Vail. Seems to be all I'll need as long as the above formula is correct for Banish. /sigh doing all of my RDMs work.

[DrObvious]

Yes, but since when do red mages get resisted on anything not completely immune to the enfeeble?

Fafnir, tiamat, jormungand? Even faf has about a 20% resist with ~340 skill and terra staff. With the increased cost of tier II enfeebles is getting resisted worth +2% potency? Cerberus too. It's like a 5% land rate, but you can land it without es.

Staff is the last slot where you should be swapping in mnd gear imo.

[aurik]

Yes, but since when do red mages get resisted on anything not completely immune to the enfeeble?

Fafnir, tiamat, jormungand? Even faf has about a 20% resist with ~340 skill and terra staff. With the increased cost of tier II enfeebles is getting resisted worth +2% potency? Cerberus too. It's like a 5% land rate, but you can land it without es.

Staff is the last slot where you should be swapping in mnd gear imo.

So like 1% of stuff you fight requires a staff, got it. I'm not saying don't bring staffs, I'm saying when you don't need it (aka 99% of the time), macro it out.

[Khamsin]

Yes, but since when do red mages get resisted on anything not completely immune to the enfeeble?

Fafnir, tiamat, jormungand? Even faf has about a 20% resist with ~340 skill and terra staff. With the increased cost of tier II enfeebles is getting resisted worth +2% potency? Cerberus too. It's like a 5% land rate, but you can land it without es.

Staff is the last slot where you should be swapping in mnd gear imo.

So like 1% of stuff you fight requires a staff, got it. I'm not saying don't bring staffs, I'm saying when you don't need it (aka 99% of the time), macro it out.

For some LSs, Fafnir and Tiamat is 99% of the stuff they fight.

[Suiram]

Even if you are comfortable with your resist rate to lose accuracy for MND, I wouldn't think that a MND+ wand would be the best way to go about it. There has to be other slots you can stick MND+ in over say, Enfeebling Magic Skill+ where you aren't sacrificing the 15% accuracy bonus from HQ staff.

[aurik]

Yes, but since when do red mages get resisted on anything not completely immune to the enfeeble?

Fafnir, tiamat, jormungand? Even faf has about a 20% resist with ~340 skill and terra staff. With the increased cost of tier II enfeebles is getting resisted worth +2% potency? Cerberus too. It's like a 5% land rate, but you can land it without es.

Staff is the last slot where you should be swapping in mnd gear imo.

So like 1% of stuff you fight requires a staff, got it. I'm not saying don't bring staffs, I'm saying when you don't need it (aka 99% of the time), macro it out.

For some LSs, Fafnir and Tiamat is 99% of the stuff they fight.

I feel sorry for those people, they're missing 99% of the game.

[Lordwafik]

Forgive my n00bishness concerning RDM spells but wouldn't a Terra's Staff help you land (not talking about potency) Slow better then a MND+ weapon?

If you need accuracy, earth/terra staff.
If you need potency, Wand it up.

Yesterday in limbus my para was kicking in much more than before, and slow was better, and this is before food. I was @ like +35'ish mnd, food would add +10, it's great. I'm sticking with my wand more than I normally would now.


RE : Faf, I used to debuff him in my dalm >_> So long as you have enough +merits to support the loss of +skill , you're good to go. The t2 spells also have a better stick rate than t1 spells, so its not as bad as before when trying to land.

[DrObvious]

So like 1% of stuff you fight requires a staff, got it. I'm not saying don't bring staffs, I'm saying when you don't need it (aka 99% of the time), macro it out.

My point is more that in exp/dynamis/limbus or stuff like that where your landrate is near 100%, the mobs don't live long enough where that extra potency really makes a difference.

If you want to have all that gear for every single possible occassion then more power to you, but I think most rdms would agree we already lug around a lot of gear. If I'm doing "fun stuff" I still want the staff for nuking too.

[aurik]

So like 1% of stuff you fight requires a staff, got it. I'm not saying don't bring staffs, I'm saying when you don't need it (aka 99% of the time), macro it out.

My point is more that in exp/dynamis/limbus or stuff like that where your landrate is near 100%, the mobs don't live long enough where that extra potency really makes a difference.

If you want to have all that gear for every single possible occassion then more power to you, but I think most rdms would agree we already lug around a lot of gear. If I'm doing "fun stuff" I still want the staff for nuking too.

Extra accuracy doesn't make a difference either when you have enough +enfeeble, why not just go naked? I mean, why be a good red mage when you can be a shitty one and still get your share of the loot.

[Sylvrdragon]

On stuff that you don't need the ACC from Earth/Terra's, then you probably don't need the extra 1-2% slow/para-proc that the wand will give you either.

I do like the whole WHM ES Enfeeble thing though, but it really only works if they gear for MND. As RDM/WHM, I have 75+~40 MND before food using staff. I could have a lot more if I really tried (Could get around +60ish if I drop a lot of money on upgrading some gear). I'm not sure a WHM can beat that as easily as you think they can... Well.. not to mention, since TierII Enfeebles came out, the WHM Enfeebling thing became obsolete(sp?) I think.

Good luck with the MND tests. I would definately love to know just how much MND I need for any given mob.

[FFXIFlux]

RE : Faf, I used to debuff him in my dalm >_> So long as you have enough +merits to support the loss of +skill , you're good to go. The t2 spells also have a better stick rate than t1 spells, so its not as bad as before when trying to land.

Why would you have used a dalmatica over errant/mahatma? On HNM I usually have 140-150 MND, +15 to +23 enfeebling (+merits) for paralyze/slow and while I'll get resists, it's rare to be resisted more than twice in a row, which isn't really a problem, however paralyze often won't last the full duration. Swapping in a staff and dropping 12 MND doesn't make a huge increase in land rate. Having Omega paralyzed 9 times in a row though is hillarious.

[Lordwafik]

RE : Faf, I used to debuff him in my dalm >_> So long as you have enough +merits to support the loss of +skill , you're good to go. The t2 spells also have a better stick rate than t1 spells, so its not as bad as before when trying to land.

Why would you have used a dalmatica over errant/mahatma? On HNM I usually have 140-150 MND, +15 to +23 enfeebling (+merits) for paralyze/slow and while I'll get resists, it's rare to be resisted more than twice in a row, which isn't really a problem, however paralyze often won't last the full duration. Swapping in a staff and dropping 12 MND doesn't make a huge increase in land rate. Having Omega paralyzed 9 times in a row though is hillarious.

Because a long time ago I was new to RDM, and enfeebled in dalmatica + staff of element, that's why I used to. I never used to focus on enfeebs, I was happy being 'fresh bish and healer, after a while that got boring and I started focusing on how to maximize my enfeebs

Hence why, I used to enfeeble in a dalmatica, Not anymore.

But yeah, i'm loving this patch a lot, we're the frigging debuff masters now, not ninjas I'm loving how powerful slow2 and para2 are once you squeeze in all the mnd you can get.

Shame we can only use 6 points, I'd love to stuff them all into para2/slow2, but I also want to have access to blind2 / phalanx2

[DrObvious]

Extra accuracy doesn't make a difference either when you have enough +enfeeble, why not just go naked? I mean, why be a good red mage when you can be a shitty one and still get your share of the loot.

You make it sound like I'm advocating not carrying any +mnd at all which is hardly the case. Let's be realistic, you have to draw the line somewhere, or does everyone suck if they dont have every last possible (and the best of each) +mp, -enmity, +skill, and +stat gear for every single slot on them at all times? There's only so much stuff you can carry with 60 inventory, otherwise I'd agree with you.

There are still things that will resist you even with capped enfeebling, and I'm not talking about hnms. People heavily exaggerate that they never get resisted ever by any exp(or weaker) mob. I have never seen an aura pot in sky resist silence while wearing auster's staff, but I have seen resists when using joyeuse, even with full +skill gear macroed in (at the time I didn't have full wind merits though), and those are T-VT?

Having Omega paralyzed 9 times in a row though is hillarious.

I've seen that on fafnir and ultima too...oh wait, I must be lying because I'm a shitty rdm

[Raineer]

RE : Faf, I used to debuff him in my dalm >_> So long as you have enough +merits to support the loss of +skill , you're good to go. The t2 spells also have a better stick rate than t1 spells, so its not as bad as before when trying to land.

Why would you have used a dalmatica over errant/mahatma? On HNM I usually have 140-150 MND, +15 to +23 enfeebling (+merits) for paralyze/slow and while I'll get resists, it's rare to be resisted more than twice in a row, which isn't really a problem, however paralyze often won't last the full duration. Swapping in a staff and dropping 12 MND doesn't make a huge increase in land rate. Having Omega paralyzed 9 times in a row though is hillarious.

mushpot + bard mnd etudes must be awesome, i never got that lucky :/

[aurik]

Extra accuracy doesn't make a difference either when you have enough +enfeeble, why not just go naked? I mean, why be a good red mage when you can be a shitty one and still get your share of the loot.

You make it sound like I'm advocating not carrying any +mnd at all which is hardly the case. Let's be realistic, you have to draw the line somewhere, or does everyone suck if they dont have every last possible (and the best of each) +mp, -enmity, +skill, and +stat gear for every single slot on them at all times? There's only so much stuff you can carry with 60 inventory, otherwise I'd agree with you.

There are still things that will resist you even with capped enfeebling, and I'm not talking about hnms. People heavily exaggerate that they never get resisted ever by any exp(or weaker) mob. I have never seen an aura pot in sky resist silence while wearing auster's staff, but I have seen resists when using joyeuse, even with full +skill gear macroed in (at the time I didn't have full wind merits though), and those are T-VT?

Having Omega paralyzed 9 times in a row though is hillarious.

I've seen that on fafnir and ultima too...oh wait, I must be lying because I'm a shitty rdm

We're talking about 1 single item which will boost your mnd by +9-10

[DrObvious]

We're talking about 1 single item which will boost your mnd by +9-10

Surely you agree that +5mnd from a promise badge is better than enfeebling torque, prism cape is better than altruistic, mahatma slops are better than nashira, and communion earring is better than enfeebling earring if you are concerned about boosting potency. That's 19 more mnd!

Swapping just a few of these items, while keeping your elemental staff will give you better potency and accuracy than keeping other +skill items and swapping in a wand in for potency, which is what my whole point was when I said the staff is the last slot you should be swapping.

We both agreed that keeping a staff for hnms wasn't stupid, although I'm sure there are some people who prefer wand there too. What is the extra potency going to do for for other stuff, exp/dynamis/limbus mobs will be dead before you can even see the difference 15%->17% or 28%->30% slow makes, which is something I pointed out before and you ignored.

[Raineer]

We're talking about 1 single item which will boost your mnd by +9-10

Surely you agree that +5mnd from a promise badge is better than enfeebling torque, prism cape is better than altruistic, mahatma slops are better than nashira, and communion earring is better than enfeebling earring if you are concerned about boosting potency. That's 19 more mnd!

Swapping just a few of these items, while keeping your elemental staff will give you better potency and accuracy than keeping other +skill items and swapping in a wand in for potency, which is what my whole point was when I said the staff is the last slot you should be swapping.

We both agreed that keeping a staff for hnms wasn't stupid, although I'm sure there are some people who prefer wand there too. What is the extra potency going to do for for other stuff, exp/dynamis/limbus mobs will be dead before you can even see the difference 15%->17% or 28%->30% slow makes, which is something I pointed out before and you ignored.

After tons of HNM kills I learned there is something magic that happens once you approach the +60MND and above level, you become pretty damn accurate again without the need for any skill (or staff) whatsoever...and you can imagine what paralyze potency becomes like at that level.

Doesn't apply as much to Gods but really what does?

[FFXIFlux]

mushpot + bard mnd etudes must be awesome, i never got that lucky :/

Mushpot is 1500 gil from vendor, +10
Errant body +10
Mahatma pants +8
Mahatma boots +6
Penitent's belt +5
Prism Cape +4
Dvt. Mitts+1 +6
Wand+1 + Shield+1 +12
Tamas + Communion Ring +10
Promise Badge +5
Ryakho's Earring +2
= +78MND -16 enmity (-17 with hedgehog bomb)

Because of macro space I often just use Altrustic Cape, River Gaiters/Nashira Crackows and Enfeebling Earring unless it's a mob I won't be casting sleep/gravity/bind on then I swap them in manually.

And of course eventually I'd like:
Duelist Chapeau+1 +3
Mahatma Body +1
Mistilein +1
Communion Earring +2

Looking at the gear, RoZ > CoP + ToA, but I'm sure that isn't a surprise.

[Rocl]

obviously you should use af2 boots because matk bonus affects enfeebles RITE

[FFXIFlux]

obviously you should use af2 boots because matk bonus affects enfeebles RITE

Black Mages enfeeble with Thundaga III.