LOL puppetmaster nerf

[Kyreth]

Geomancer as you've described it just screams "Useless gimmick" at an unheard of order of magnitude, causing even CoP Dynamis to bow its head and weep tears of gimp.

Or maybe hoping there would be a nuke option alternative to BLM-go-boom.

That's how I'd see Geomancer, anyhow. Strong nukes and effects, but limited by the area and weather as to choices. At some point, I'm betting S-E will tighten the belt a bit on magic-resistance on NM's, and having an alternative source of magic-based damage in the form of GEO would be nice.

[BRP]

Geomancer as you've described it just screams "Useless gimmick" at an unheard of order of magnitude, causing even Garrison to bow its head and weep tears of gimp.

Fixed for even more truthiness

You are an idiot, in all regards.

[Reynard]

can someone change this thread title to "lolgeomancer and the trolls that want it" ?

I was lured into thinking this would be a thread talking about PUP after the next patch, but instead its just a bunch of haters waxing philosophic. PUP is hardly mentioned save some way overstated and totally irrational negativity about a job they clearly have no meaningful experience with (I'm looking at you Jeryhn and Ayaz). I'm lvling PUP and having a good time with it btw, and its not nearly as gimp as some of you bandwagoneers seem to think.

enitsu and mioko and the other PUP champions haven't bothered to comment here. Suppose I shouldn't have taken the bait for this lowbrow thread either...

[DeadLegend]

Should have just let it die and taken your pup after patch concern to the patch thread then <.<

[Takeno]

pup is poop?

[darkdeath]

It is indeed such a good job what you guys have done here... altough what you've planned is way beyond SE's limits of intelligence. So it is very likely this wont happend =(

I hope they hired people like you =/

[Khamsin]

Instead, they hired people who wanted poopetmasters, whoresairs, and poomages.

[BRP]

I like Puppetmaster a lot. Its a good and unique idea for the most part, but done badly. When I think of PUP, I think of Armor Core, which I just love to play. The fact they see it reasonable to not allow PUP to equip melee armor at least equal to RDM is just flat out dumb(no harness or doublet?). While limiting them on H2H weapons isn't a bad idea(a lot non-Cesti h2h weapons so no action at all), giving them a H2H score under B is just bad. They gave Corsair B Sword, B+ Dagger(10 points behind THF at level 75), B Gun, and A- Parry(highest in the game) but gave PUP C(ish? -? +?) H2H. It is just bad design. Despite this, I plan to level PUP because it looks fun and I couldn't give a flying fuck if it will be trampled by a WAR because I'm not a loot/epeen whore. Don't dis the job, dis the creator for failing at making an awesome idea only half-assed.

EDIT: I'd like to mention that SE needs to fucking fix their AI so Automatons(and Fellows) can cure/buff party members.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I like Puppetmaster a lot. Its a good and unique idea for the most part, but done badly. When I think of PUP, I think of Armor Core, which I just love to play. The fact they see it reasonable to not allow PUP to equip melee armor at least equal to RDM is just flat out dumb(no harness or doublet?). While limiting them on H2H weapons isn't a bad idea(a lot non-Cesti h2h weapons so no action at all), giving them a H2H score under B is just bad. They gave Corsair B Sword, B+ Dagger(10 points behind THF at level 75), B Gun, and A- Parry(highest in the game) but gave PUP C(ish? -? +?) H2H. It is just bad design. Despite this, I plan to level PUP because it looks fun and I couldn't give a flying fuck if it will be trampled by a WAR because I'm not a loot/epeen whore. Don't dis the job, dis the creator for failing at making an awesome idea only half-assed.

EDIT: I'd like to mention that SE needs to fucking fix their AI so Automatons(and Fellows) can cure/buff party members.

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not H2H.

[BRP]

I like Puppetmaster a lot. Its a good and unique idea for the most part, but done badly. When I think of PUP, I think of Armor Core, which I just love to play. The fact they see it reasonable to not allow PUP to equip melee armor at least equal to RDM is just flat out dumb(no harness or doublet?). While limiting them on H2H weapons isn't a bad idea(a lot non-Cesti h2h weapons so no action at all), giving them a H2H score under B is just bad. They gave Corsair B Sword, B+ Dagger(10 points behind THF at level 75), B Gun, and A- Parry(highest in the game) but gave PUP C(ish? -? +?) H2H. It is just bad design. Despite this, I plan to level PUP because it looks fun and I couldn't give a flying fuck if it will be trampled by a WAR because I'm not a loot/epeen whore. Don't dis the job, dis the creator for failing at making an awesome idea only half-assed.

EDIT: I'd like to mention that SE needs to fucking fix their AI so Automatons(and Fellows) can cure/buff party members.

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not H2H.

That doesn't mean shit. Afraid the job might be able to parse near a WAR or MNK if its able to not suck at melee and have a pet? Sounds a little too much like BST. Oh, but they have a slightly weaker pet but a A- weapon.

[Ayaz]

PUP is hardly mentioned save some way overstated and totally irrational negativity about a job they clearly have no meaningful experience with (I'm looking at you Jeryhn and Ayaz). I'm lvling PUP and having a good time with it btw, and its not nearly as gimp as some of you bandwagoneers seem to think.

i base my opinion on all the puppetmasters i have partied with. with the HORRIBLE puppet AI, bad acc/attk, and crappy gear selection, i dont see a single thing at all a pup can do in a party that ANY other dd/support job can do 10x better. the job is just plain garbage.

[BRP]

PUP is hardly mentioned save some way overstated and totally irrational negativity about a job they clearly have no meaningful experience with (I'm looking at you Jeryhn and Ayaz). I'm lvling PUP and having a good time with it btw, and its not nearly as gimp as some of you bandwagoneers seem to think.

i base my opinion on all the puppetmasters i have partied with. with the HORRIBLE puppet AI, bad acc/attk, and crappy gear selection, i dont see a single thing at all a pup can do in a party that ANY other dd/support job can do 10x better. the job is just plain garbage.

Once again, don't over do it. The job is weak, it isn't unplayable.

[miokomioko]

All nonsense aside, this "nerf" is pretty damn understandable... PUP can solo IT mobs (with enough time) thanks to 'ADD.' I shouldn't be able to solo an IT fomor without taking a point of damge. It takes a while, but this 'ADD' technique, which I've been playing with for a majority of the day, keeps the Puppetmaster completely out of the mob's hate queue so you can pick off at their HP while they remain in that "I just lost aggro so I just stand here like an idiot before I depop" state.

Now, with NMs, that makes things a little unfair considering the mob never depops and you can pull it around anywhere just deploying and deactivating and never getting hate (UNLESS your puppet melee-hits the mob). ::edit:: Two downsides, you gotta' be real quick once they get TP because they try and spam a move every time they are deployed on, and also, the mob is never actually claimed and anyone can steal at any time.

Now, on the other hand... using 'ADD' to get around true-sight/sound aggro mobs is still an option (which will be cut down to once per minute, but big deal). You can do this (RNG frame best) by deploying and deactivating, which will put that mob into that just-lost-aggro state and you can mosey on by no problem. This just sparked an idea since I want my damn Rank2 Lebros Cavern assault win, subbing PUP to pull those crawlers and deactivate so you can walk by no problem seems like an OK plan. Yeah, I know that assault is old news, but I'm sure most people skipped it if they could, but with the Assault list under Missions listing each assault you've won, I have a feeling that might come into play later on in regards to a certain Glory Crown perhaps. ;o

[DeadLegend]

Like you said BRP the Puppetmaster sounds like Armored Core, which is fucking awesome, I'm thinking of playing it but I've heard it's obscenely expensive and it seems to be pretty useless atm, nothing to make ls ask me to come something besides blm or pld(and I'm already made to go blm 70% of the time, my dream pld gear grows dusty). If I were still a solo player I'd level pup, but being in ls, and not being filthy rich, I'll only level what's needed. More likely to play Corsair out of the new jobs just for elemental shots to make enfeebles stronger on hnm. :/

[doofy]

i base my opinion on all the puppetmasters i have partied with. with the HORRIBLE puppet AI, bad acc/attk, and crappy gear selection, i dont see a single thing at all a pup can do in a party that ANY other dd/support job can do 10x better. the job is just plain garbage.

You've been partying with PUPs thats are either retarded or don't have any tier III attachments. If you're talking about pre-60, then the ones you've been with must not even have the tier II attachments. Post 60, the job needs the tier III attachments, the puppet parses terribly without them and the puppetmaster's damage starts to drop off. I currently parse in the range of 15-18% with the puppet parsing 10-15% and I do not even have a target marker so it has around 50-55% acc. The puppet itself will outparse me if I can get my hands on one any time soon, although my own damage will get a boost when I ding 72 and finally get some decent melee pieces (P Set, Wagh's).

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Toth]

Even without the Attuner, PUP can do very well. For example, at 68, I parsed 18% in my last party with a PLD SAM WAR PUP RDM WHM while Serenade parsed around 9% (only tier 3 attachment was the Tact. Processor). 27% in a nice exp party isn't too bad. However, I am still perplexed on what SE expects us to do on HNms and gods with nasty AOE.
We need some melee oriented JSE.

[miokomioko]

Even without the Attuner, PUP can do very well. For example, at 68, I parsed 18% in my last party with a PLD SAM WAR PUP RDM WHM while Serenade parsed around 9% (only tier 3 attachment was the Tact. Processor). 27% in a nice exp party isn't too bad. However, I am still perplexed on what SE expects us to do on HNms and gods with nasty AOE.
We need some melee oriented JSE.

First of all, I don't think meleeing is the answer for HNM. Perhaps add PUP to Zenith jobs. Every job deserves some kind of JSE, I'm going to assume that will happen eventually, hopefully automaton-related stats like AF, since as is nothing outside of AF has any effect on it when it's the whole basis of the job.

Second of all, I think in regards to nasty AoE moves, they expect us to merit Repair and Activate recasts (lol).

Third, there was some other thread filled with people's ideas for new items. Someone mentioned a PUP item that would boost Automaton stats significantly as a latent triggered by the PUP not being engaged. Excuse the 'zam,' but wouldn't that make a nifty Group-2 Job Trait? "Concentration" perhaps? I think so.

In the end, I don't think the idea of a Puppetmaster job should have to melee to pull their weight in an exp party. Hand-to-hand skill, for them, is even described as being a "backup."

[Toth]

Those would be great Mioko. However, if we merit repair and activate, we won't be able to merit any autmaton skills 8) Still, if the data from the Attuner and the Target Marker are any indication, then PUPs may not need too.

Has anyone brought PUP to any HNM yet for some testing (though convinving your ls...thats the challenge!)?

[Tahngarthor]

Those would be great Mioko. However, if we merit repair and activate, we won't be able to merit any autmaton skills 8) Still, if the data from the Attuner and the Target Marker are any indication, then PUPs may not need too.

Has anyone brought PUP to any HNM yet for some testing (though convinving your ls...thats the challenge!)?

I plan to merit repair (not activate... even 5 merits doesnt help a whole lot)- means 60 secs of downtime after effect wears instead of 90.
and spread the rest among magic and melee (unless you can get fire III with 5 magic merits...?)

[miokomioko]

(unless you can get fire III with 5 magic merits...?)

Lv.74 (skill 236) = Water III

Lv.75 (skill 240) + 3 magic merits (skill 246) = Aero III

= no way in hell it can get Fire III with 250 skill max.