Auto Refresh vs Conserve MP

[Ashael]

Agreed Jeryhn, I'm saying using /SMN because it will give you a free Refresh or Haste every other minute and reduces your capabilities is asinine. Using it for AA, sure that has merits, if any of your tanks don't blink I applaud your LS for bucking the damage negation bandwagon. RDMs who contend that the only thing their good for is Refresh/Haste whoring and just need MP/MPregeneration disgust me.
I'm pretty well-blinded by the (to me) obvious merits of /blm, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I just do not see /SMN as a versatile, useful, non-situational subjob. I definetly do not see Auto-Refresh as a strong argument alone.

NINJEREDIT:

Lylie
Right~

Because casting Choke is way better than being able to cast Erase, Curaga I and II, Paralyna (etc.).

I don't see either, why you want to Sleepga mobs in a Merit PT. And if you need MP, just buy a couple MP whore gears (not hard to find if you check the AH for 2min), so all the Aspir / Drain argument is lame.

If Erase, Curaga and Paralyna are necessary, and I'm the only mage that can do it, yes I'll run /whm. KRT, yup /whm. But otherwise, /BLM trumps /WHM. Gonna do the asshole argument, but if you need to continously cast Curaga, you obviously need more /nin in your merit PT, or to find some that don't suck. That's a pure melee argument right there. "But /BLM does nothing for MEEEEEEE!"

[Jeryhn]

Agreed Jehryn, I'm saying using /SMN because it will give you a free Refresh or Haste every other minute and reduces your capabilities is asinine. Using it for AA, sure that has merits, if any of your tanks don't blink I applaud your LS for bucking the damage negation bandwagon. RDMs who contend that the only thing their good for is Refresh/Haste whoring and just need MP/MPregeneration disgust me.
I'm pretty well-blinded by the (to me) obvious merits of /blm, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I just do not see /SMN as a versatile, useful, non-situational subjob. I definetly do not see Auto-Refresh as a strong argument alone.

lol, I'm not the one arguing for SMN sub, don't worry.
I agree that its entirely useless.

My argument is that WHM is a far superior subjob (and MND a far superior stat) for RDM for just about anything you'll use it for, when Sleepga and Stun are not nescessary spells for the RDM to cast.

[Ryushii]

/smn has best stats of any rdm sub job

and btw, we use PLD tanks for fast hiting mobs that would do a good job raping NINs

[aurik]

/smn has best stats of any rdm sub job

and btw, we use PLD tanks for fast hiting mobs that would do a good job raping NINs

The difference in actual stats values between SJ, which is like 1-2, really means dick all compared to other benefits that the SJs offer.

[rydiu]

A good RDM can maintain a Haste and Refresh cycle on his entire party without the need Fast Cast outside of their natural job trait.

Right... and a good red mage never plays red mage except in merit parties.

[Khamsin]

Last time i checked, ele debuffs were based off Ele skill...which means they're gimped on rdm. And how often end game is there no BLM in the party?

lolhydra

[Byrd]

I'm just surprised people can't get it through their damn heads that RDM's find themself in the position of "I just need to go to X event to be a manawhore, WHAT GIVES ME THE MOST MANA?". God forbid someone brings a warp cudgel without needing warp to get home.

So if you're in a manawhore situation and the -status removal of the WHM is not needed for whatever reason and the mob targets are not Aspirable, then RDM/SMN would be a viable option. I can't think of any of an endgame situation that meets those criteria (although I'm sure there are some). Such a high percentage of endgame mobs has MP (maybe birds in Lufaise?) it seems like RDM/SMN would be useless. While I will concede that you need to spend a lot of MP to make Converse MP > Auto-Refresh, Aspir more than makes up for the difference. Aspir and Drain are the primary reason I prefer BLM to WHM, that's what I find myself missing when I'm RDM/WHM.

[rydiu]

rdm/smn is NEVER a viable option... unless you're braindead

the evolution of the game has rendered that job combo completely retarded, along with anybody who promotes it

[Raineer]

I'm just surprised people can't get it through their damn heads that RDM's find themself in the position of "I just need to go to X event to be a manawhore, WHAT GIVES ME THE MOST MANA?". God forbid someone brings a warp cudgel without needing warp to get home.

So if you're in a manawhore situation and the -status removal of the WHM is not needed for whatever reason and the mob targets are not Aspirable, then RDM/SMN would be a viable option. I can't think of any of a situation that meets those criteria. Such a high percentage of endgame mobs has MP (maybe birds in Lufaise?) it seems like RDM/SMN would be useless. While I will concede that you need to spend a lot of MP to make Converse MP > Auto-Refresh, Aspir more than makes up for the difference, even it light battles. Aspir and Drain are the primary reason I prefer BLM to WHM, that's what I find myself missing when I'm RDM/WHM.

I found myself able to aspir targets maybe 10% of the time once life opened up outside the middle entrance of Shrine. Obviously your mileage may vary.

[Raineer]

rdm/smn is NEVER a viable option... unless you're braindead

the evolution of the game has rendered that job combo completely retarded, along with anybody who promotes it

sorry i missed your RDM manual, and you play what now?

[Byrd]

I found myself able to aspir targets maybe 10% of the time once life opened up outside the middle entrance of Shrine. Obviously your mileage may vary.

Due to time limitations, mob choice or an impotent Aspir?

[Victalyssa]

I found myself able to aspir targets maybe 10% of the time once life opened up outside the middle entrance of Shrine. Obviously your mileage may vary.

Due to time limitations, mob choice or an impotent Aspir?

You mean some RDM's have potent aspir?

[Jeryhn]

A good RDM can maintain a Haste and Refresh cycle on his entire party without the need Fast Cast outside of their natural job trait.

Right... and a good red mage never plays red mage except in merit parties.

Summoner is my main job. My RDM was started out as a distraction from high-level stuff, and bloomed into a useful job just about anywhere. It is typically used in my LS as a main healer in melee parties in the main alliance for an HNM or dynamis, as a Chainspell Stunner, or otherwise support. It's also the job I merit with, because fuck all if I want 4k/hr on my SMN over 10k/hr on RDM.

Overall, my RDM is just a means to an end: To serve as a useful distraction from the job I love, Summoner. The fact that it is properly geared is a plus.

But if you really want to go balls-to-the-wall with trying to hate me, here's a little tidbit:
I merit summoning skill.

[Raineer]

I found myself able to aspir targets maybe 10% of the time once life opened up outside the middle entrance of Shrine. Obviously your mileage may vary.

Due to time limitations, mob choice or an impotent Aspir?

You mean some RDM's have potent aspir?

Just not fighting stuff with MP period, my aspir was fine (by my standards), my avg got to around 100-115 which sucks for a BLM but was fine to me.

It wasn't up to me what mobs we merited/camped for 3 hours, I went where the LS went.

[Dezzimal]

rdm/smn is NEVER a viable option... unless you're braindead

the evolution of the game has rendered that job combo completely retarded, along with anybody who promotes it

Righto, because nobody would ever use a RDM/SMN in an aerial armor rotation...

[Ivve]

this is not a blm sub vs smn sub thread, it is strictly conserve mp vs auto refresh

Okay, forgive me if I'm being stupid, but what exactly are you asking, then? Are you asking if there any situations in which you will need to give up a piece of +refresh effect gear for a piece of +conserve MP effect gear? Deulist hat + dalmatica > conserve MP gear in those places.

The only other place you'd have to make a choice between conserve MP or auto-refresh would be when you're picking what sub to use, no? In that case, you'd have to take into consideration all the other benefits/pitfalls of using that sub, so isn't your comparison pointless?

[Lordwafik]

this is not a blm sub vs smn sub thread, it is strictly conserve mp vs auto refresh

Okay, forgive me if I'm being stupid, but what exactly are you asking, then? Are you asking if there any situations in which you will need to give up a piece of +refresh effect gear for a piece of +conserve MP effect gear? Deulist hat + dalmatica > conserve MP gear in those places.

The only other place you'd have to make a choice between conserve MP or auto-refresh would be when you're picking what sub to use, no? In that case, you'd have to take into consideration all the other benefits/pitfalls of using that sub, so isn't your comparison pointless?

Not only that, but even wearing conserve MP gear (the only one = Earring) wont remove +refresh slots (hat/body/yigitset).

This argument was retarded.

[Not Kuno]

This thread is giving me an aneurysm.