Auto Refresh vs Conserve MP

[DeadLegend]

Answers can exist in simple words, but 3 word questions trying to make trouble that then get shot down are completely pointless.

[Lockecole]

The answer is not always in these"multi-paragraph" sentences your talking of.
Sometimes you can find your answer with just a simple word.

Anyways, im just gonna arguing over something that is meaningless 'cause it has no OMGUBERDIFFERENCE on MP gaining, i'd say to this topic:

To each their own.

To each their own? Either one gives more MP or one doesnt. Its not up for debate. This isn't a matter of opinion, we're not asking you if you enjoy subbing MNK on RDM...this is a question which gives more MP in most situations as a RDM, and Raineer gave you obvious reasons why /SMN trumped /BLM for purely MP reasons. I was in the same LS as him, and I know for a fact he knows what he's talking about.

Why do you PLD/WAR tiamat again?

(First post)
http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=225

We don't anymore (we use PLD/NINs), but try and keep acting like you know what you're talking about.

[spooky]

To the OP:

If you cant manage your MP, and rely so heavily on Refresh or Conserve MP, then you just fail hard anyway.

Please kill yourself now.

kthx<3

[Eldelphia]

People are sick of this on KI & Alla too.

I run around most of the time with /blm, use /smn for dynamis and some odd events just to help get my mp back quicker rather than cut down how fast I spend it.

Sounds odd cos of course if you don't spend it so fast (/BLM) then you don't need to get as much back as you would with /SMN but sometimes it just helps. Often there are situations where it doesn't matter that you have xmp more left - it's not enough to save the situation and so getting a few more mp back faster is better.

I prefer /BLM for warp/escape/tractor/sleep/ele seal but 9/10 I'm not the only one capable of casting them.

There are of course times when I am the only one capable of casting them because I'm the only one alive :D

[Ashael]

I'm walking in way late, but since this discussion was finally revealed to not be a Auto-Refresh versus Conserve MP, but actually a /SMN versus /BLM question I must make a statement.
Disregarding that you probably only have SMN levelled sufficiently as a support job, I will reduce this argument down to a MP Conservation/Regeneration discussion. In the process of course, I shall be disregarding all the valuable, party/alliance/dynamis saving spells and abilities that you gain from /blm.

Not only do you gain Conserve MP at 25 BLM, you also gain a remarkable little spell called Aspir. This spell reduces the arguments for experience points /smn to nil. During any event style encounter, there will be random mobs that will have MP pools, be they Mage mobs, crabs, beetles, certain Lumorians, statues or what not.

Even if you are in a level range where there are no Aspirable mobs, you will see savings. After you hit Convert, guess what else from /blm is on a 10 minute timer? ES! Guess what you can stack with ES to save yourself approximately 60MP? Drain! Drain and Aspir are awesome MP savers. Yes sometimes you will see no return. But Drain will often provide you with the necessary healing from AoEs, and Aspir will provide a little kick occassionally. If, as a post 50 RDM, you are not riding Drain/Aspir every 37-40 seconds, then you really need to learn to abuse your Dark Magic Skill.

/SMN has a limited use in specific HNM situations, at least until Summoning Magic Skill actually has any relevance. Besides that... it's useful for power levelling I suppose.
If you really want 1mp/tick Auto-Refresh? Go buy a Vermy, or earn a D.chapeau or Dalmatica.

[Lordwafik]

They're both good, I lean more towards as many refresh items I can stack on my RDM, however keep in mind one thing.

Just like everything else in this game, if it's all alone, it sucks.

Haste +2% ? Gtfo you're wasting my slot. Haste +2% here, +4% there, +5% here? Welcome into my equipment screen, enjoy wrapping yourself around me.

Now for RDM they only real source for ConserveMP comes from /blm, There's only 2 items if I can recall that actually give conserve MP in an item to a RDM, Magnetic earring and Water Ring (meh).

You cant really stack on +conserve MP on a RDM, however on a BLM you can add lots more MP via items (which is why blms will "Blindly swear by it").

Refresh alone to me isnt really worth it to me, i'm talking about 1mp/tic refresh. The reason +refresh items are good for RDM, is because you're adding 1 more to your 3/tic.

Dalm - 1 more
AF2 hat - 1 more
Sanction - 1 more

So you can potentially have 3 more /tic, so if each 1 is 20mp/minute, you're getting 60 more MP a minute, ontop (if you can get these items).

However, on my BLM, I'm completely the opposite, and I stick conserve MP items on (unless its time for the errant body to rear it's head kekeke).

That was gear wise, subjob wise, I do not find subbing smn to be useful for anything for my RDM, better spells from /blm or /whm, if you need 20mp/tic you can use vermillion cloak. However some people might do AA rotations or whatever, I dunno, but i've never seen a rdm/smn who convinced me they're not gimping themselves.

Unlike gear, you cant just change your subjob in the middle of the field, hence why I do not prefer /smn.

[Ryushii]

Heh, sorry, I was tired. BTW I have BLM 37 SMN 37 and WHM 37 (and brd 40 lol) starting up DRK now. Another thing to keep in mind about conserve mp vs auto refresh is that the lower level you are, the worse conserve mp gets. A lvl 50 rdm or whm couldn't output 2800 mp in 10minutes if they had 10mp refresh. Heck, it's hard for a lvl 75 rdm or whm to do that (with like 6-7mp refresh). Yes, the spells can be useful, but in sky and possibly sea (i dunno, i got sea about a month ago and have only done Ix'drk so far) you do much more running around than fighting, so while your running through ru lude to try to get to zip before the other lses, that auto refresh is still going. Also, aspir doesn't work all the time. Sure, in areas where theres plenty of aspirable mobs its great and it makes /blm much better, but if there's nothing to aspir (which happens alot) or very little to aspir (also happens alot) or during an hnm/god that our sucky dark magic skill (lol @ whm even more gimped dark magic skill) can't aspir, then that spell is really a moot point. Also thanks to the people who were able to look at this objectively instead of flaming me "conserve mp is god nub!!!!!!" I got all i needed from this thread, ty.

[Kyreth]

Q: What does Gravity do?

......wow

I've had tards who had no idea Gravity was good "because they make the mob hold still anyway, lol".

It's sad when a 60+ DD has no idea that Gravity is -Evasion and tells you to stop casting it as they whiff every other swing.

To answer the OP- I'm 6 levels under you and figured this out ages ago. 1 MP/tic < even one trigger of Conserve MP on casting anything serious (Refresh, most Cures, Stoneskin, whatever). At high levels- that is, any point /BLM would come into play for Conserve MP, I don't stop casting in a PT unless we stop fighting. Therefore, /BLM > /SUM for virtually any purpose I care to use it for as a Red Mage.

Edit add: From playing /WHM with a Sanction Refresh up, I can say that I burned through my MP faster without Conserve than with it, even doing the same job with the same approximate MP expenditures...even keeping my MP at the point where auto-Refresh was constantly kicking in.

Basic point- if it doesn't apply to life after Maat, it's probably better asked somewhere else- like FFXIClopedia, as Allakhazam is a vast sea of idiocy with small islands of intelligent posting that vanish as soon as they crest the waves.

[Machazareel]

Allakhazam is a vast sea of idiocy with small islands of intelligent posting that vanish as soon as they crest the waves.

That's a fucking perfect analogy, lol.

[Lylie]

I don't see the point to /BLM for EXP PTs...

[Machazareel]

ur jokn rite?

From what I've seen it's certainly useful as long as the rdm isn't the main healer. >_>

[Lylie]

Hmm, no?

[Silmarwen]

I always picked my subjob based on the task at hand and which subjob would offer me the spells, abilities, etc. I would need to perform said task. Conserve MP or Auto-refresh was always a secondary non-decision-making bonus >.<; Comparing the two, one a set given and the other a random is nothing more than an educated guess. The variance makes it a comparison not worthy to twist the decision on a sub.

Seems to me the argument is just that...for the sake of arguing.

[SephYuyX]

ConserveMP is also completely random in both how much it kicks in and how much MP it saves.

Just fucking sub DRG for haste.

[FFXIFlux]

Conserve MP saves approximately 7.5% over time - comparing to Auto Refresh, which gives 20mp per minute.

Therefore using simple math, in any situation in which you will consistantly spend enough MP that 7.5% of 1 minute's mp consumption is more than 20, Conserve MP would have saved you more.

I knew I shouldn't do it but I did it anyway, I read the whole thread. Seriously, I hate you guys. 7 pages of what wouldn't be more than 3 posts on KI. Delekii gave the right answer on page 3 for anyone that has a brain and can extrapolate. 2 minute BC, go with Conserve MP. 2 hour dynamis with just RDM refreshing you, go with Auto Refresh. 2 hour dynamis with RDM, COR and BRD with horn all slaved to your pampered ass feeding you MP then go with Conserve MP.

Or play BLU, take Plasma Charge, Actinic Burst, Chaotic Eye and Frost Breath and have both and not need to sub either BLM or SMN.

[Janice]

Conserve MP saves approximately 7.5% over time - comparing to Auto Refresh, which gives 20mp per minute.

Therefore using simple math, in any situation in which you will consistantly spend enough MP that 7.5% of 1 minute's mp consumption is more than 20, Conserve MP would have saved you more.

I knew I shouldn't do it but I did it anyway, I read the whole thread. Seriously, I hate you guys. 7 pages of what wouldn't be more than 3 posts on KI. Delekii gave the right answer on page 3 for anyone that has a brain and can extrapolate. 2 minute BC, go with Conserve MP. 2 hour dynamis with just RDM refreshing you, go with Auto Refresh. 2 hour dynamis with RDM, COR and BRD with horn all slaved to your pampered ass feeding you MP then go with Conserve MP.

Or play BLU, take Plasma Charge, Actinic Burst, Chaotic Eye and Frost Breath and have both and not need to sub either BLM or SMN.

Even if I had no refresh, I would go WHM/BLM to dynamis. I'd rather be able to sleep something than have 20 mp/minute.

[Garret]

I think /Pld is the answer. Auto-Refresh & Cover, what's not to love?

[Kyreth]

I don't see the point to /BLM for EXP PTs...

I'm on a roll today, let's see if I can't avoid hitting the ground at Mach 2 afterwards.

Very simply- I'm an RDM in an exp party. I do not stop casting spells for enough time to get a tic of resting MP in in most cases. I can:

1) Get 20 MP/minute from Summoner Autorefresh with /SMN. I sacrifice Aspir, Drain, and Elemental Seal. (Just in the MP or getting it back category, never mind the other stuff)

2) Get Conserve MP, Drain and Aspir from /BLM. Aspir goes off once a minute. Any time it returns more than 35 MP, I just beat autorefresh. Every time I Seal/Drain post Convert, I save MP vs. a self Cure III or more- effectively, I cast Cure III+ for 15MP. Every time Conserve triggers, I save MP- if those savings are greater than 20 MP/minute, I beat /SMN even if the monster is un-Aspirable. Basically, that's any time I get a Conserve on a Cure III- which I end up casting a few of every minute or so during a fight. Or a Haste. Refresh. Dia II. Whatever II or III DD spell I MB'ed with.

[DeadLegend]

/SUM.

!!!

[Khamsin]

Conserve MP saves approximately 7.5% over time - comparing to Auto Refresh, which gives 20mp per minute.

Therefore using simple math, in any situation in which you will consistantly spend enough MP that 7.5% of 1 minute's mp consumption is more than 20, Conserve MP would have saved you more.

I knew I shouldn't do it but I did it anyway, I read the whole thread. Seriously, I hate you guys. 7 pages of what wouldn't be more than 3 posts on KI. Delekii gave the right answer on page 3 for anyone that has a brain and can extrapolate. 2 minute BC, go with Conserve MP. 4 hour dynamis with just RDM refreshing you, go with Auto Refresh. 4 hour dynamis with RDM, COR and BRD with horn all slaved to your pampered ass feeding you MP then go with Conserve MP.

Or play BLU, take Plasma Charge, Actinic Burst, Chaotic Eye and Frost Breath and have both and not need to sub either BLM or SMN.

I'm surprised you were generous enough to say Dynamis only wastes 2 hours of your time. And the 4 isn't even including the gathering time.