point systems

[Aodh]

i have Excel if i want to install it, i'm not using it because i don't want to, not because i don't have it or because i don't know how.

That's a function of how points are redeamed, not tracked.

how is that not part of the system?

If you have it then it's a choice not to use it and you shouldn't discredit a simple formula/tracker by saying "it doesn't install it on my computer". Excel is a bad way IMO of tracking it because it's in one person's hands to do all the updating (generally). But it's pretty simple to manage, and you can get Star Office if you can't afford MS Office.

Cost of items is indeed a part of a system, but that's like saying the odometer on your car won't tell you when it needs to be serviced. It's purpose is only to track how far you've gone.

The point of all systems is to get the items to the people who diserve them them most. They just have different methods, benifits and drawbacks.

[Faranim]

Point systems suck because somebody, somewhere, is doing bookkeeping.

It's not a matter of it being hard, or being lazy. If I was leading a linkshell, I wouldn't want to have to spend even 10 seconds after an event to write down points and such nonsense.

No Bookkeeping > Bookkeeping.

Design a set of lotting rules that everyone agrees with, and never worry about it again. If people whine about the rules, or drama comes up, then the rules end up changing and people are happy again.

[Gatsby]

Why the hell do people use excel for points? Its one damn inefficient way to make sure you got the points you earned. Automated DKPs are the way to go.

[Gatsby]

Point systems suck because somebody, somewhere, is doing bookkeeping.

It's not a matter of it being hard, or being lazy. If I was leading a linkshell, I wouldn't want to have to spend even 10 seconds after an event to write down points and such nonsense.

I spend 10 seconds doing DKP using an automated system. If someone without DKP access is on, a fast Screen shot of LS members in the area is sufficient as well.

[Sonomaa]

sendoh doesnt need to use excel because xavier knows how to use it

[superfob]

Point systems suck because somebody, somewhere, is doing bookkeeping.

It's not a matter of it being hard, or being lazy. If I was leading a linkshell, I wouldn't want to have to spend even 10 seconds after an event to write down points and such nonsense.

No Bookkeeping > Bookkeeping.

Design a set of lotting rules that everyone agrees with, and never worry about it again. If people whine about the rules, or drama comes up, then the rules end up changing and people are happy again.

You'll be changing rules for a long time. 10 seconds of bookkeeping > 30min of listening to someone bitch to you about items no one even wanted to free lot on.

[Aodh]

In case people are going "WTH is DKP/EQDKP": http://eqdkp.com/?p=about

Basically, you setup events with point values (i.e. Kirin Kill). Then you add the event, and attendee's + any notes you want to a Raid. Takes litterally 2-3min to do the points, and can be managed by multiple people to divide the workload. Also everything is transparent, you can look at a specific person's points and adjustments, so if you think someone is corrupt, everyone can look into it.

[Septimus]

sendoh doesnt need to use excel because Dr. T.O. Morrow programmed his internal computations to be faster and more reliable

Fixed

[Alleya]

Seniority x attendance x how much the person uses that job = should they get it. I distrust systems that punish people for having a real life, which is exactly what point systems do. If your linkshell's leaders aren't competant enough to decide who deserves what without keeping records, you probably already have much bigger problems.

[Woyn]

I love your avatar.

[aurik]

Point systems suck because somebody, somewhere, is doing bookkeeping.

It's not a matter of it being hard, or being lazy. If I was leading a linkshell, I wouldn't want to have to spend even 10 seconds after an event to write down points and such nonsense.

No Bookkeeping > Bookkeeping.

Design a set of lotting rules that everyone agrees with, and never worry about it again. If people whine about the rules, or drama comes up, then the rules end up changing and people are happy again.

You'll be changing rules for a long time. 10 seconds of bookkeeping > 30min of listening to someone bitch to you about items no one even wanted to free lot on.

People bitch about drops regardless. Point systems won't fix that. In fact, it may make them feel powerless to effect change, which is the opposite of what you want: when your friends/ls-mates are unhappy with the distribution of loot, you should listen to what they have to say, and come up with amended rules which compromise for their concerns, not point at an excel spreadsheet and say "susry DKP > you".

[Ryko]

Fortunately the point system isn't penalizing someone for having a real life, they're considering it a non-factor. What you do when you're not at an event isn't the system's business, more power to you, but if you're not there then whatever, bottom line still is that you're not there. If a system is gonna dick someone over for being around to more events but as different jobs to be more useful then why should it reward someone who is around less regardless of what they show as?

[Faranim]

Point systems suck because somebody, somewhere, is doing bookkeeping.

It's not a matter of it being hard, or being lazy. If I was leading a linkshell, I wouldn't want to have to spend even 10 seconds after an event to write down points and such nonsense.

No Bookkeeping > Bookkeeping.

Design a set of lotting rules that everyone agrees with, and never worry about it again. If people whine about the rules, or drama comes up, then the rules end up changing and people are happy again.

You'll be changing rules for a long time. 10 seconds of bookkeeping > 30min of listening to someone bitch to you about items no one even wanted to free lot on.

Setting up a solid set of rules once and *maybe* modifying them later > having to enter data on a daily (or even weekly) basis. It's not even a matter of time required, it's just plain annoying having to do stuff outside of FFXI in order to play FFXI.

and why would somebody bitch about an item nobody wants? If you get an item merely because "nobody else wanted it" it has absolutely no negative effect on you.

[Gatsby]

I spend more time bitching about this game than I do keeping up with the maintenance of my LS points system. I believe, I've spent more time typing responses for this thread than I've spent working on point problems and point issues and point additions than I have in the past 2 months of FFXI.

I'll say again, if your happy with your system. Go for it. The system you have works for you. I'm not going to tell you to change to a point system. Can I give you a gold star for the success of your system?

Those with points have gotten it to work with the people in their LS.

People in both systems will find loopholes and ways to exploit both methods.

So all in all, there is no best system. there is only the system that works best for you and your group.

[phlux]

In case people are going "WTH is DKP/EQDKP": http://eqdkp.com/?p=about

The Google ad on that page is awesome. "Let Our English Speaking Pro-Gamers Get You DKP for Molten Core and BWL".

[Gatsby]

In case people are going "WTH is DKP/EQDKP": http://eqdkp.com/?p=about

The Google ad on that page is awesome. "Let Our English Speaking Pro-Gamers Get You DKP for Molten Core and BWL".

If you need help setting up a DKP system, you'll probably need to get http://www.hop.com.

[Aodh]

Setting up a solid set of rules once and *maybe* modifying them later > having to enter data on a daily (or even weekly) basis. It's not even a matter of time required, it's just plain annoying having to do stuff outside of FFXI in order to play FFXI.

and why would somebody bitch about an item nobody wants? If you get an item merely because "nobody else wanted it" it has absolutely no negative effect on you.

Step 1: Steal Underwear.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

or more to Faranim's application...
Step 1: Set up solid rules.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Everyone's happy!

Using "Setting up a solid set of rules once" as a fundimental base is still missing step 2, or the actions/details of step 1 and how they are implimented.

Most of us "point guys" aren't able to see how you can objectivly create a set of rules without adding in some level of opinion/bias. If you'd like to 'win' this argument, then you have to show us the details of how you make decisions which are free of opinions and bias which benifit the LS the most.

[aurik]

Setting up a solid set of rules once and *maybe* modifying them later > having to enter data on a daily (or even weekly) basis. It's not even a matter of time required, it's just plain annoying having to do stuff outside of FFXI in order to play FFXI.

and why would somebody bitch about an item nobody wants? If you get an item merely because "nobody else wanted it" it has absolutely no negative effect on you.

Step 1: Steal Underwear.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

or more to Faranim's application...
Step 1: Set up solid rules.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Everyone's happy!

Using "Setting up a solid set of rules once" as a fundimental base is still missing step 2, or the actions/details of step 1 and how they are implimented.

Most of us "point guys" aren't able to see how you can objectivly create a set of rules without adding in some level of opinion/bias. If you'd like to 'win' this argument, then you have to show us the details of how you make decisions which are free of opinions and bias which benifit the LS the most.

Step 1: Create a fair points system
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Everyone's happy!

The equivalent of the Chewbacca Defense works equally well to criticise point systems as divine distribution systems. How do you create a "fair" point system? What is "fair"?

[Alleya]

That argument can easily be turned around. Why shouldn't the most beneficial player be given big ticket items first? If you have two people with similar attendance, one with WAR and RNG as their only jobs, and the other has BRD and WAR but pretty much exclusively comes to events on BRD, who should get the Adaman Hauberk first?

[Ryko]

Our second adaberk went to a taru who played BLM predominantly, I'm not seeing your point.