point systems

[CaptainObvious]

points suck, they turn the game into a huge line.

what's the fun in that?

The endgame in FFXI turns the game into a huge line. Hi there King System.

All of this would be moot if things weren't dependent on mobs that pop once a day, or once every 5-7 days and who had the best bot. If items were more common (Read: Not saying each mob needs to drop 10 per kill, but higher drop rate than there is now and/or more pops/BCNM/whatever) then people wouldn't bitch as much since the chance of them getting X item is going to go up anyway. But wait, this is FFXI and people would bitch anyway.

Hey, page 17.

[BRP]

That was an awesome story

[NynJa]

I come to fafnir and nidhog on ranger, but Im a warrior 90% of the time (except sea, where I save blms from prudence rape with timely 45 second shadowbinds)

edit: my point system thought got lost, I found it now.
the primary problem with a point system is people save points forever, to end that issue, have points expire or set a point limit. that way people will spend thier points and you wont have some super twinked BLM lotting an ebody for the 39 up and coming war over the 3 other wars who need it but arent quite as old as the long running blm
or make said items cost more points if your primary job cannot use it

if mobs would actually DROP stuff that people would want to spend pts on, saving pts wouldnt be a problem. Kinda tough to spend pts on a Ridill when on average three ridills drop every two months.

as far as ppl spending pts on shit they cant use, just impose a "if you cant wear it nor are you close to wearing it, you cant lot it" rule.

[Norelco]

Now, the only drawback is that old members can rake up points and just stop raiding but still be first in line for most items, whereas a new member will busting his ass to catch up.

Why is this a problem? If the old person has the points and quits, and comes back, let him use them. He earned them, and wasn't spending them while he was there previously, therefore he wasn't getting any drops. That's the point of of being a new member...you have to bust your ass to show your worth and build a reputation within the LS.

[Khalil]

Now, the only drawback is that old members can rake up points and just stop raiding but still be first in line for most items, whereas a new member will busting his ass to catch up.

Why is this a problem? If the old person has the points and quits, and comes back, let him use them. He earned them, and wasn't spending them while he was there previously, therefore he wasn't getting any drops. That's the point of of being a new member...you have to bust your ass to show your worth and build a reputation within the LS.

Please read my full post. Don't just take little bits. I'm in a point system LS and I love it. My LS currently has a measurement for people who go afk for a month where we "freeze their points" and they will be required to work it and based on a Leader's decision will "unfreeze" their points.

[Norelco]

Now, the only drawback is that old members can rake up points and just stop raiding but still be first in line for most items, whereas a new member will busting his ass to catch up.

Why is this a problem? If the old person has the points and quits, and comes back, let him use them. He earned them, and wasn't spending them while he was there previously, therefore he wasn't getting any drops. That's the point of of being a new member...you have to bust your ass to show your worth and build a reputation within the LS.

Please read my full post. Don't just take little bits. I'm in a point system LS and I love it. My LS currently has a measurement for people who go afk for a month where we "freeze their points" and they will be required to work it and based on a Leader's decision will "unfreeze" their points.

I did read your full post, and your explanation that I quoted above doesn't make much sense to me. If they earned the points, why cannot they use them when they come back immediately?

[Bluedemon]

The 2 most relevant arguements against a point system I've read in these 17 pages are the issue surrounding afk members, and the issue surrounding duo boxing players.

AFK members - a member going afk to earn points in a point system LS is no different than a member going afk to earn better standing in a non point system LS. This is not a flaw in either system, its a flaw in the player who is trying to take advantage of the linkshell. Should any admin of any LS catch such acts of dishonesty, I should only assume reprimands will be issued accordingly.

Duo boxing - Once again an issue with the player and not the system. A player duo boxing can just as easily take advantage of a LS that works on player standing as he can a point system. If I'm in a non point system LS and I control 2 toons, I can easily duo box them and make the linkshell leaders believe that both toons are in attendance and helping out thus earning me better standing for drops on both characters. I do have a few people in my linkshell that duobox, I also have a few couples. I am aware of who they are and being someone who has duo boxed before, I can certainly say its incredibly easy to determine when someone else is doing this especially when you know exactly which players to look out for.

[Senoska]

Don't most LS's use ventrillo? 90% of the time you know when someone is afk. Granted everyone use vent I mean. If people are going out of their way to go afk and still get points, its really not that hard to find. Both systems work. I personaly am in favor of points becasue a non point LS will cause fav's of the LS leaders to get more items. I have personaly seen it with 2 of my LS's that broke because of this very reason. Point LS's [a well planned and exicuted one] will run alot smother then a non point LS and IMHO there will be less drama.

If you show up to stuff, you are rewarded. If you dont, you can wait in line for everyone that works their butt off to get stuff til they dont need it anymore and then you can have it.

The only disadvantage of point systems I personaly see, is when new members join the shell. Its really really really hard to get up to normal ranks of people that have been in the LS for so long. They waited a week for their osode[lets say] and you have to wait 5 months for yours. But even this isnt a big flaw like a nonpoint LS.

Moral: Point > Nonpoint.

[Khalil]

Now, the only drawback is that old members can rake up points and just stop raiding but still be first in line for most items, whereas a new member will busting his ass to catch up.

Why is this a problem? If the old person has the points and quits, and comes back, let him use them. He earned them, and wasn't spending them while he was there previously, therefore he wasn't getting any drops. That's the point of of being a new member...you have to bust your ass to show your worth and build a reputation within the LS.

Please read my full post. Don't just take little bits. I'm in a point system LS and I love it. My LS currently has a measurement for people who go afk for a month where we "freeze their points" and they will be required to work it and based on a Leader's decision will "unfreeze" their points.

I did read your full post, and your explanation that I quoted above doesn't make much sense to me. If they earned the points, why cannot they use them when they come back immediately?

A player is defined by two things; his consistency and his labour. If a player has worked his ass off for X amount of time and acquired Y amount of points, which also has the lead, then he should get the item that he/she seeks. If that same player is consistently in attending, I wouldn't second guess his contributions to let him lot on Ridill or whatnot.

Now, if that same player ranked up a lot of points and then simply went missing 5 months, without telling anyone. If he came back, lotted on Ridill and left again for 5 months, you would sort of feel cheated out. That's why my LS has a system in place that after a certain amount of time, your points will get frozen if you aren't playing the game. There are exceptions such as telling the Leaders you will atending school and have work, for example, and won't be online all the time. I'm sure they can understand.

[Bluedemon]

Presicely, its really not hard to catch someone going afk at all. With vent and with events that require constant activity from members, its really very easy actually. I also like to play with the tactic of moving members in and out of parties all the time to keep people on their toes.

[Norelco]

A player is defined by two things; his consistency and his labour. If a player has worked his ass off for X amount of time and acquired Y amount of points, which also has the lead, then he should get the item that he/she seeks. If that same player is consistently in attending, I wouldn't second guess his contributions to let him lot on Ridill or whatnot.

Now, if that same player ranked up a lot of points and then simply went missing 5 months, without telling anyone. If he came back, lotted on Ridill and left again for 5 months, you would sort of feel cheated out. That's why my LS has a system in place that after a certain amount of time, your points will get frozen if you aren't playing the game. There are exceptions such as telling the Leaders you will atending school and have work, for example, and won't be online all the time. I'm sure they can understand.

Well that's different. Before you gave the example of a month and didn't mention that a person may come back and cash out. Hopefully the person in the example would realize that he shouldn't lot on a useful item that could benefit the shell only to disappear again afterwards.

And speaking of "cashing out" ... that can happen in a non-point linkshell as well. I've seen it tons of times. A person will put up with a shell he doesn't like just to get an SH or an Osode or some other piece of gear, and then quit immediately to join back up with his friends in a less competitive/ambitious linkshell. As Bluedemon has stated, that's a flaw in the person, not the shell's system.

My bottom line is that favortism sucks, and no matter what, you're going to have someone who complains because they feel they deserve something. In my opinon, it's harder to argue with points than it is an officer who is hooking up a friend.

Edit: I'd also recommend, instead of freezing the points, just put certain drops on a restricted list...meaning, if a person disappears for 5 months (your example), he can't lot on something as rare as a Ridill because it's on the list, but he could use his earned points to lot on a lesser item, say, Wyrmal Hands or an Assjammer.

[inafume]

I generally have an idea of who is being 2boxed because most of the time people don't care to hide the fact.

[Faranim]

people consider 2 boxing a bad thing?

People who are 2 boxing are contributing a lot more to the LS. Especially in our case, we have people who 2-box THF so we always have TH at events. It's a lot more work for the player doing the 2-boxing, and they're only doing it to help the LS.

[layoneil]

people consider 2 boxing a bad thing?

People who are 2 boxing are contributing a lot more to the LS. Especially in our case, we have people who 2-box THF so we always have TH at events. It's a lot more work for the player doing the 2-boxing, and they're only doing it to help the LS.

they're talking about 2 boxing on a friend's account so they can get attendance (points or no points).

"hey, i was logged on and in the zone so i was there." obviously, it's shady stuff but this is FFXI we're talking about.

[FFXIFlux]

people consider 2 boxing a bad thing?

People who are 2 boxing are contributing a lot more to the LS. Especially in our case, we have people who 2-box THF so we always have TH at events. It's a lot more work for the player doing the 2-boxing, and they're only doing it to help the LS.

I think the issue is that someone 2boxes another person's character, so 2 different people would get points. It's really not a big deal (aside from if your system doesn't allow 2box people getting 2 points and someone tries to lie to the linkshell they aren't 2boxing.)

[Koyangi]

people consider 2 boxing a bad thing?

People who are 2 boxing are contributing a lot more to the LS. Especially in our case, we have people who 2-box THF so we always have TH at events. It's a lot more work for the player doing the 2-boxing, and they're only doing it to help the LS.

I think the issue is that someone 2boxes another person's character, so 2 different people would get points. It's really not a big deal (aside from if your system doesn't allow 2box people getting 2 points and someone tries to lie to the linkshell they aren't 2boxing.)

The person who gave his info to the 2boxxer so his char could help the LS indirectly should definately mean something. He could have just told noone his pw.

[inafume]

The person who gave his info to the 2boxxer so his char could help the LS indirectly should definately mean something. He could have just told noone his pw.

But at the same time it isn't that person controlling the character. It's pretty similar to dealing with a person who has gone on break. They shouldn't be treated like someone who is consistently showing up.

If you want to reward someone a little for helping the LS by allowing the character to be 2boxed, that's great. But I wouldn't reward them the same as if they were showing up every day.

[Djevik]

Overview of how my ls does points...

Inactive Members: EQDKP keeps track of 30 day attendance %, if it falls below a certain % members are barred from lotting until they increase attendance.
Dual Box: Dual Box characters earn half points for the event they attend.
Dynamis: Comment 1 AF2. Winner determined by points. Icelands AF2 used to have a restriction that people who had never recieved icelands af had priority over people with some. This was removed once the items became more common.
Limbus: Coins evenly distributed, AF+1 freelot or you can use points to obtain priority, Proto drops based on points.
Normal Drops: Based on points, some items have priorities. ie: Novio BLM priority, Ninurtas SAM priority, etc
Bank: Points can be traded in for AH items. Bank used for medicines/glasses/food/crafting for HQs etc.

Point values are changed every 1-2 months to keep up with rising and falling demand. Example: WAR gear went up in price after everyone started levelling it.

[Khalil]

Overview of how my ls does points...

Inactive Members: EQDKP keeps track of 30 day attendance %, if it falls below a certain % members are barred from lotting until they increase attendance.
Dual Box: Dual Box characters earn half points for the event they attend.
Dynamis: Comment 1 AF2. Winner determined by points. Icelands AF2 used to have a restriction that people who had never recieved icelands af had priority over people with some. This was removed once the items became more common.
Limbus: Coins evenly distributed, AF+1 freelot or you can use points to obtain priority, Proto drops based on points.
Normal Drops: Based on points, some items have priorities. ie: Novio WHM priority, Ninurtas SAM priority, etc
Bank: Points can be traded in for AH items. Bank used for medicines/glasses/food/crafting for HQs etc.

Point values are changed every 1-2 months to keep up with rising and falling demand. Example: WAR gear went up in price after everyone started levelling it.

Fixed for truth.

[Jeryhn]

Overview of how my ls does points...

Inactive Members: EQDKP keeps track of 30 day attendance %, if it falls below a certain % members are barred from lotting until they increase attendance.
Dual Box: Dual Box characters earn half points for the event they attend.
Dynamis: Comment 1 AF2. Winner determined by points. Icelands AF2 used to have a restriction that people who had never recieved icelands af had priority over people with some. This was removed once the items became more common.
Limbus: Coins evenly distributed, AF+1 freelot or you can use points to obtain priority, Proto drops based on points.
Normal Drops: Based on points, some items have priorities. ie: Novio BLM priority, Ninurtas SAM priority, etc
Bank: Points can be traded in for AH items. Bank used for medicines/glasses/food/crafting for HQs etc.

Point values are changed every 1-2 months to keep up with rising and falling demand. Example: WAR gear went up in price after everyone started levelling it.

Fucking lol'd.