point systems

[epigram]

Really I think your making too big of a deal about most of these items. I have never had a situation where when my ls wiped at an HNM then said, damn well if so and so had an E. body we would of won!

The only items that mean a whole lot are D. ring and ridill. Tanks should lot D. ring and whoever has the job except SAM/BST/RNG should lot the ridill (maybe theif but I don't know mutch about that job with ridill).

You don't need ANY gear to kill any monster in this game except Brigandish Blade. (This technically makes the dagger from BB the MOST IMPORTANT WEAPON FOR KILLING A HNM IN THE GAME!!!) It all mainly goes down to epeen and merit party exp/hr. Even then, for merit parties there are usually greater issues of burden than someone having or not-having an item.

I like point systems because it dies a value of attendance directly proportional to loot.

[Luke]

You're absolutely right that these items aren't really that good; only reason there's so much fuss over them is their rarity. My old LS leader was offered the LS bank of a rival LS just for an E.body.... lol. He laughed at him.

[epigram]

I'm just pretty much going against the whole "you need such and such job to lot such item" which really isn't the case. There is loot whoring, but points tend to help prevent that, or at least allow loot whoring if you have done your time.

The most retarded system lotting system involves the words "for the good of the ls." That's probably the most retarded thing ever. Besides picking up a k-club or two for a drk, there isn't much that will help you significantly and almost nothing that will let you win a fight if you otherwise would fail, well except for a buccaneer's Knife.

[Tom Chambers]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the hardest working members. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

[aurik]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

[Tom Chambers]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system by going to LS events all the time. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

Double fixed.

[NynJa]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

[Raineer]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

Means that the only events you attend are points events..and in my experience you can "attend" and still not do shit, by racking up "attendence" skilling up weapons etc

[DrObvious]

"Having the best job for a piece of gear" is especially important when it comes to really rare drops. If something drops that your LS only sees once every couple years, or perhaps, once in the lifetime of your LS, the last thing you want is it to go to someone who doesn't have a job that can put it to the best use, even if they contributed more.

i absolutely disagree with this. partly because of what Flux said and mostly because anyone can level the "best job for a piece of gear" in a more reasonable amount of time than it would take for that rare piece of gear to ever drop again.

Sadly, this is the correct answer. Assuming a bst got an ebody or a ridill and was planning on leveling war, why not reward their loyalty to the shell instead of giving it to some new war? The bst will likely be 75 long before you see another drop anyway making the whole point moot.

And if you didn't want to equip bsts, then why did you recruit one in the first place?

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

Means that the only events you attend are points events..and in my experience you can "attend" and still not do shit, by racking up "attendence" skilling up weapons etc

One of two things is going on here. Either the leaders see that someone is a leech, or they don't. If they do, then why is this person getting full points, or why are they not kicked from the ls? If they don't, they would be "exploiting" a divine decision system too since the leaders think they are a contributing member when they aren't.

[aurik]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

Means that the only events you attend are points events..and in my experience you can "attend" and still not do shit, by racking up "attendence" skilling up weapons etc

- AFKing at events you don't really want to be at
- only attending events which give you high points compared to effort involved, or can AFK at without being called out
- dual box and try to get extra points (while really you're just afking with twice as many boxes)
- have a friend dual box you and redeem points for it
- campaign to have items you want reduced in point cost.
- campaign to have events you want to happen increased in point reward.
- campaign to modify the point system blatantly in your favor (ie, if you've been there for a year, introduce a seniority rule. if you're new, implement point-expiration so that older member lose their banked efforts).
- drive away or otherwise discredit people who are competing with you for the same items

Lots of ways to manipulate point systems, not all of them on-the-level.

[DrObvious]

How is a divine decision system any less susceptible to those problems? If the leaders think you're an active contributing member when you aren't they're going to unduly reward that person, just like the points system will.

[aurik]

How is a divine decision system any less susceptible to those problems? If the leaders think you're an active contributing member when you aren't they're going to unduly reward that person, just like the points system will.

Nobody said that Divine Decision is less susceptible to similar problems. People are just claiming that points are guaranteed to be a "fair" way to do things. Guess what? Point systems are just as abusable, and more abusable than divine decision if the leadership is 'fair'.

[NynJa]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

Means that the only events you attend are points events..and in my experience you can "attend" and still not do shit, by racking up "attendence" skilling up weapons etc

- AFKing at events you don't really want to be at equally exploitable by a divine system...points system can mark down on the points list that so and so was AFK, divine system has no mention of this.
- only attending events which give you high points compared to effort involved, or can AFK at without being called out equally exploitable in a divine system..the events that give higher points are probably events that require more people.
- dual box and try to get extra points (while really you're just afking with twice as many boxes) if you cant tell if someones 2boxing...
- have a friend dual box you and redeem points for it see above
- campaign to have items you want reduced in point cost. thats the leaders problem for being succeptable to a cocksucking.
- campaign to have events you want to happen increased in point reward. see above
- campaign to modify the point system blatantly in your favor (ie, if you've been there for a year, introduce a seniority rule. if you're new, implement point-expiration so that older member lose their banked efforts). How is this not exploitable in a divine system ?? "Why the fuck are you giving him a Ridill, I've been here longer".
- drive away or otherwise discredit people who are competing with you for the same items Any reason why this wont be a problem in a divine system ?? lol

Lots of ways to manipulate point systems, not all of them on-the-level.

Everything you said is equally exploitable in a divine system...

[rydiu]

How is a new member going to "campaign" to get anything changed in an established LS? lolz

[aurik]

[quote=NynJa]

Well said in both your last two posts epigram. This situation is so overblown is ridiculous. Points system is the best, it rewards the members best at exploiting the point system. Priority by jobs from some random asshat just picking and choosing is stupid.

Fixed.

how exactly do you exploit a points system ?? Lotting E.Bd for your bst ??


if your bst has more pts than all the war's and drk's, thats the war's and drk's problem.

Means that the only events you attend are points events..and in my experience you can "attend" and still not do shit, by racking up "attendence" skilling up weapons etc

- AFKing at events you don't really want to be at equally exploitable by a divine system...points system can mark down on the points list that so and so was AFK, divine system has no mention of this.
- only attending events which give you high points compared to effort involved, or can AFK at without being called out equally exploitable in a divine system..the events that give higher points are probably events that require more people.
- dual box and try to get extra points (while really you're just afking with twice as many boxes) if you cant tell if someones 2boxing...
- have a friend dual box you and redeem points for it see above
- campaign to have items you want reduced in point cost. thats the leaders problem for being succeptable to a cocksucking.
- campaign to have events you want to happen increased in point reward. see above
- campaign to modify the point system blatantly in your favor (ie, if you've been there for a year, introduce a seniority rule. if you're new, implement point-expiration so that older member lose their banked efforts). How is this not exploitable in a divine system ?? "Why the fuck are you giving him a Ridill, I've been here longer".
- drive away or otherwise discredit people who are competing with you for the same items Any reason why this wont be a problem in a divine system ?? lol

Lots of ways to manipulate point systems, not all of them on-the-level.

Everything you said is equally exploitable in a divine system...[/quote:fc235]

I'll just repeat my last post, since you seem to have overlooked it.

Nobody said that Divine Decision is less susceptible to similar problems. People are just claiming that points are guaranteed to be a "fair" way to do things. Guess what? Point systems are just as abusable, and more abusable than divine decision if the leadership is 'fair'.

[aurik]

How is a new member going to "campaign" to get anything changed in an established LS? lolz

Through tells? Just because you're new to a group doesn't mean you can't have influence.

[Setats]

How is a new member going to "campaign" to get anything changed in an established LS? lolz

Through tells? Just because you're new to a group doesn't mean you can't have influence.

You'll have to forgive Rydiu. He's in an LS where only about 5 people can understand him.

[rydiu]

oh come on... no big kill HNMLS is going to just change their lotting rules on a whim, especially if its a point based system and is already fair... as most people mentioned above, most of the items don't mean jack in the big picture.

any suggestions for a point system that are unfair and clearly favor certain people will get shut down if its a LS run by mature non-loot whore leaders...in any LS that's member base is a majority of mature people you won't even need to have this discussion as the lotting rules will be painfully obvious (the free lot system above is very fair if you have a small LS that consistently performs)

[Alisha]

What you've outlined is a point/bank system. Where that system gets sketchy is on two main issues. (This is going into the discussion as to "what's the advantages/disadvantages")

First issue, is determining what is sold and what isn't. Examples include: Shining Cloth, Ore from Jormungand, Cashmire from Vrtra, Kirin's Osode, Herald's Gaiters, AV/JOL drops, etc. There are some things that are cut and dry, there are others which are borderline yes/no, and as a result become an issue at some time.

Second, is what if the bank is stolen? This happened to my previous LS which was running a bank system prior to me joining. It's really not pretty what happens from there.

Some of the advantages include that it's an easy system to close down (Split bank based on points) and it's also very easy if you need money for something, you don't have to wait on kills or farm, just redeam points.

i doubt the LS bank will be stolen unless the person thats currently in charge of it quits and someone else is put in charge of it. i have no reason not to trust the current leaders,and they are nice people who often put others ahead of themselves.

as for whats sold. basically anything thats craftable is sold,and in the last session an enhancing sword was sold.we had a lone rdm bitch and proclaim that osodes should be sold too lol. but honestly i think osode is more useful to the jobs that use it the most than ehnacing sword would be to a rdm.

in dynamis 100 currencies are sold to fund more dynamis(nobody in the LS has pipedreams of obtaining relics) anyone thats an official member can lot on AF but,you have to designate wich job you want to lot on in your search comment before hand and you must have the specified job at lvl 65+. if you have rdm and smn at 75 and designated smn but rdm af drops you cant lot it unless all oher elligible people already have it.if nobody meets the requirements then those interested with the job the highest may lot,like how recently i won saotome sune-ate when my sam is lvl 52.

[Pyrena]

Are fair linkshell leaders really that rare? I must be lucky, because I've always felt (before I was even part of the leadership) that our leaders were fair. We also listen to someone when they think something isn't fair, explain why we think it's fair, and have even stuck a foot or two in our mouths because someone brought up how we weren't fair.
I have to say, we notice the afk thing too. Someone tried to pull that on us once, and ended up leaving because he said he goes to a lot of stuff and we won't let him lot things. He did go, then went afk...