point systems

[Yeargdribble]

We don't exactly say, "He got an Osode so he's off the list for a month" but we do keep in mind who gets a lot of drops regularly. We've yet to run into a situation where 2 large items are wanted back to back by one person.

Only situation I can think this would be an issue in is if someone wanted E. Body, Ridill and Osode in the same week but realistically that seems a little overkill for one person in such a short amount of time.



Also, my LS doesn't have their own dynamis so we join other groups for dynamis and I will say that I much prefer point systems in dynamis. Dynamis is something scheduled that people can know to be prepared for. It would be a little different in generally LS practices. We had an impromptu Shen run recently. We aren't going say "+50DKP to all who attended at 2:30 in the morning, you didn't know about it? sux2bu lololol!"

[NynJa]

actually I hate to say it, but Flux is making some good arguments here.

Corrupt leader using a point system doesnt turn to corrupt points. The points system becomes corrupt of the members allow it to become corrupt. Usually when theres competition in a LS for a certain item, those members competing keep a watchful eye on the competition. I know I watch Raven, Briste and Flame's pts like a hawk. If the LS members allow the leaders to ninja points up or down for certain people, then they're allowing it to become corrupted.


Anytime loot can be handed out based on a "I/We feel so and so deserves it", that becomes an opinion. Anything based on an opinion is very succeptible to bias, and any time theres bias, people are gonna be bending over and taking it up the ass.

[rydiu]

I’m in a WoW guild that uses a point system and I can honestly say that there has been virtually no bitching.

WoW is also less community oriented... people swap between characters (and personalities) the same way people swap between jobs on ffxi, hence there is a lot less pressure to act a certain way. Also on wow friend list only applies to the character, unless I somehow missed the feature that adds all characters on your friends account....

So yeah in wow people won't bitch because its easy to get a replacement and feelings will rarely be hurt if you boot xyz people for not showing up once or twice..

[Jeryhn]

We, as in the people the responded to your post, not just me, got exactly what you were saying, and it was fucking stupid. Good go at trying to save face there.

You're the only one that has responded with this line of thinking.
Try again homeboy.

Corrupt leader using a point system doesnt turn to corrupt points.

Yes, a points system would be deemed the most "fair". However, if this was a game where "fair" ruled, Dragoons would be in Fafnir tank parties using Ancient Circle trying to make themselves useful, and people would invite Puppetmasters for TP Burn over Ridill WARs because the WARs can get a party anytime they want.

Communism is "fair" too, look how well that worked for the Soviet Union.
(Disclaimer: Loose comparison.)

[layoneil]

We, as in the people the responded to your post, not just me, got exactly what you were saying, and it was fucking stupid. Good go at trying to save face there.

You're the only one that has responded with this line of thinking.
Try again homeboy.

i do too, you can't penalize someone with multiple jobs leveled and being useful to your LS and at the same time reward people who refuse to be flexible.

[Jeryhn]

We, as in the people the responded to your post, not just me, got exactly what you were saying, and it was fucking stupid. Good go at trying to save face there.

You're the only one that has responded with this line of thinking.
Try again homeboy.

i do too, you can't penalize someone with multiple jobs leveled and being useful to your LS and at the same time reward people who refuse to be flexible.

Is is not penalization if the guy who didn't get the Chapeau is up for it next. Now if I consistently denied him the Chapeau, it would be a problem, but since our realm of focus is only on two people, I still see no reason to give it to the guy who's going to use it the most.

[Fng]

for the record I prefer objective determination (pure points) of my usefullness to the LS rather than subjective determination.

1st rule of internet, trust no one.

[NynJa]

Then don't use points. For us we could have up to 60 people at an event.

we won't, i'm not the guy insulting people who don't agree with them. calling them retards who can't run Excel. not having the desire to doesn't mean not being able to.

=SUM() function in very simple steps

leave the first row blank, for titling

column one: name column, leave blank (should be A2)
column two: total points column, click square (B2) and then click the fx button (Insert function). Excel defaults this to SUM, so click ok.
column 3-infinite: Click on the 3rd square (C2) and drag its ass all the way to the far end of the sheet (to the right, square IV2), and press OK. If you're witty enough, you can simply click on square B2 and in the text box next to the Insert Function button, type in =SUM(C2:IV2).

To the left of the sheet are numbers, Click on the number 2, and your entire row should be selected. at the bottom left of grid A2 is a little black box. Click that box and drag it as far down as necessary.

Fill in the names of all your LS members in the A column. The B column will automatically update to show the members current points. In the columns following C, you can insert numerics (positive and negative) to reflect the point-per-member distribution for every event.


HOLY SHIT I JUST MADE A WORKING POINT SHEET TEMPLATE THAT A 5 YEAR OLD CAN USE AND TYPED ALL THIS SHIT OUT IN THREE MINUTES.

[FFXIFlux]

I’m in a WoW guild that uses a point system and I can honestly say that there has been virtually no bitching.

WoW is also less community oriented... people swap between characters (and personalities) the same way people swap between jobs on ffxi, hence there is a lot less pressure to act a certain way. Also on wow friend list only applies to the character, unless I somehow missed the feature that adds all characters on your friends account....

So yeah in wow people won't bitch because its easy to get a replacement and feelings will rarely be hurt if you boot xyz people for not showing up once or twice..

I don't know about the character swapping in WoW, but I'm under the impression that the top end raid guilds are pretty cohesive and the difficulty of the end-game forces them to be. I do know that going from other MMORPGs to FFXI was a bit of a shock community wise. In EQ for example you can be in 1 guild and thats it, and you can do the equivalent of /search on particular guilds. FFXI you can't search on guilds and you can carry multiple pearls and swap between them at will which leads to a lot less cohesiveness. Some games even have guildhalls specific to a guild. In FFXI "any" group of 18 people can experience FFXI's end-game so there isn't a lot of pressure game wise to keep people in a linkshell. Still LS swapping in FFXI isn't too common, but it's more common than what I've experienced in other games, and I think it would be a lot more prevelant if it wasn't for the fact that the NA community on many FFXI servers tends to be relativly small compared to other games thanks to 2/3 of many servers being French or Japanese.

[layoneil]

Is is not penalization if the guy who didn't get the Chapeau is up for it next. Now if I consistently denied him the Chapeau, it would be a problem, but since our realm of focus is only on two people, I still see no reason to give it to the guy who's going to use it the most.

if you tell him he can't lot, than i think it is.

whether you have a point system or not, if that guy isn't lotting than the system is broken. sometimes people just need to lot and let luck fall where it may.

[layoneil]

Then don't use points. For us we could have up to 60 people at an event.

we won't, i'm not the guy insulting people who don't agree with them. calling them retards who can't run Excel. not having the desire to doesn't mean not being able to.

=SUM() function in very simple steps

leave the first row blank, for titling

column one: name column, leave blank (should be A2)
column two: total points column, click square (B2) and then click the fx button (Insert function). Excel defaults this to SUM, so click ok.
column 3-infinite: Click on the 3rd square (C2) and drag its ass all the way to the far end of the sheet (to the right, square IV2), and press OK. If you're witty enough, you can simply click on square B2 and in the text box next to the Insert Function button, type in =SUM(C2:IV2).

To the left of the sheet are numbers, Click on the number 2, and your entire row should be selected. at the bottom left of grid A2 is a little black box. Click that box and drag it as far down as necessary.

Fill in the names of all your LS members in the A column. The B column will automatically update to show the members current points. In the columns following C, you can insert numerics (positive and negative) to reflect the point-per-member distribution for every event.


HOLY SHIT I JUST MADE A WORKING POINT SHEET TEMPLATE THAT A 5 YEAR OLD CAN USE AND TYPED ALL THIS SHIT OUT IN THREE MINUTES.

you typed all of that and it doesn't install Excel on my home PC.

you typed all of that and it doesn't tell me how many points it cost to lot a Ridill.

[NynJa]

no, but it tells you which members actually DESERVE a ridill rather which members took a few shots in the throat from the LS leader for one.

[Credos]

There are a lot of "points systems are gay" comments here, but I've been running one now for over a year and we haven't had any issues whatsoever. I'd imagine that if there was some problem with a DKP system, it would have shown itself by now.

Its obvious that both kinds of systems work, you can compare it to people who drive automatic and people who drive manual. Both of them have a different way to get where they are going. Is one better than the other in that respect? No. But there are personal preferences that come into play.

I think that at the end of the day a points system makes it easier on the officers and leaders of a Linkshell, because they don't need to deal with the bullshit of people complaining and shouting favoritism. I've got a guy who got an Osode and a Shura Togi within a week after a large Zilart farming session. There was a chance it could have gone to another MNK in the Linkshell, but this guy was at -every- single event for months straight. Every time there was an event scheduled, he was there. The other MNK was not at nearly as many events. If anyone had an issue with it, I'd tell them to go look at the DKP table, and that it would show just how many points this guy had.

Anyways, OP if you are interested PM me and I'll give you some information.

[superfob]

Female persona > your points. Its even worse if you don't have a points system.

[Aodh]

you typed all of that and it doesn't install Excel on my home PC.

Star Office
http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/index.jsp
Free office suite with a spreadsheet program. Excel compatable, same functions.

you typed all of that and it doesn't tell me how many points it cost to lot a Ridill.

That's a function of how points are redeamed, not tracked. Our LS has members place silent bids to two designated people (for verification) and members can bid as many points as they feel it's worth to them.

[FFXIFlux]

no, but it tells you which members actually DESERVE a ridill rather which members took a few shots in the throat from the LS leader for one.

Maybe not shots in the throat, but that does bring up another good reason for a linkshell to have a point system. Too many hot chicks in it like ours that could get a guy (or most girls) to give them anything they wanted with a smile.

[Ryko]

That's why you need a LS leader that knows they're inept with women.

[superfob]

That's why you need a LS leader that knows they're inept with women.

Isn't that worst? I mean who exactly are the johns seeing hookers? Guys good with women don't pay .

[layoneil]

no, but it tells you which members actually DESERVE a ridill rather which members took a few shots in the throat from the LS leader for one.

if all of the officers in your LS combined can't eyeball that, i think they have bigger problems than who gets what in an MMO.

Star Office
http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/index.jsp
Free office suite with a spreadsheet program. Excel compatable, same functions.

i have Excel if i want to install it, i'm not using it because i don't want to, not because i don't have it or because i don't know how.

That's a function of how points are redeamed, not tracked.

how is that not part of the system?

[Gatsby]

That's why you need a LS leader that knows they're inept with women.

Fuck.. I lose..