Gungnir @ Midgardsormr!

[cravygravy]

So I skipped 38.5 pages of this thread. Is Gungnir any good?

Worse than every other DD with non-relic weapons... Naked Ranger with Hellfire >>> Gungnir....

pwn

Thanks for the info.

[Khamsin]

So I skipped 38.5 pages of this thread. Is Gungnir any good?

Worse than every other DD with non-relic weapons... Naked Ranger with Hellfire >>> Gungnir....

pwn

Well, you can't really exceed the limitations the game places on you, so there's no point in rubbing that in. What I think he was asking for is whether Gungnir is any good for a Dragoon (versus, say, Mezraq). And tests and parses are nice, too. We know it isn't going to match up to things like Hellfire (or +1), but that's another job and totally unrelated.

Give the guy a break, he just got a relic weapon for a dragoon. He beat the game on hard mode. That should count for something.

[chiz]

The problem is that people are focusing too heavily on the modifier. Modifiers are great to buff, but only after you're getting good returns on the WS and WD itself. If that initial SS showed a 900-1000 damage Geirskogul on Cerb (which I think its possible with the right food, buffs and subjob), people would immediately accept Gungnir and Geirskogul as a decent relic bound by the same limitations that face any DRG (or any other melee job for that matter, the inability to boost attack, generate TP independently, or transfer hate on WS without sacrificing other abilities). Instead we have a SS with a 200 dmg Geirksogul and people are saying the relic sucks because it has an AGI modifier? Not the case.

We're not sure about the modifier or even the rTP multiplier because there's simply not that much to work with given the info that's been provided, but most relic WS are 3.0 rTP and that's what most sites list. However, the next best thing for DRGs is Wheeling Thrust which has an underwhelming 1.75 rTP multiplier at 100-300TP (ignores defense) and a decent 50% STR modifier. Yet, DRGs who /THF or /WAR with high enough attack perform respectably using Wheeling Thrust. Its not just because of the 50% STR Modifier, its because they're actually getting close to hitting the 2.4 and 3.0 (/THF) pDIF cap and getting a full return on their 90D+ Polearm.

So once again, we're looking at a 1-hit WS with an rTP of 3.0 (probably) and a 100D weapon. The emphasis should be getting a full return on those stats first, then worrying about bumping the 2ndary Modifier. Eliminating any other factors including secondary modifiers, quick math shows capping pDIF @3.0 with /THF and SA should result in @900D on Geirskogul. My thoughts are that trying to boost anything other than STR/DEX (what you find on Hecatomb) and attack (what you find on other decent DRG gear) on WS is going to adversely affect pDIF to the point its simply not worth it on any harder mob.

[Turlos.]

So I skipped 38.5 pages of this thread. Is Gungnir any good?

Worse than every other DD with non-relic weapons... Naked Ranger with Hellfire >>> Gungnir....

pwn

Well, you can't really exceed the limitations the game places on you, so there's no point in rubbing that in. What I think he was asking for is whether Gungnir is any good for a Dragoon (versus, say, Mezraq). And tests and parses are nice, too. We know it isn't going to match up to things like Hellfire (or +1), but that's another job and totally unrelated.

Give the guy a break, he just got a relic weapon for a dragoon. He beat the game on hard mode. That should count for something.

I agree with this. My dragoon is one of the only jobs I haven't leveled at least to 37, and likely will stay there for a while. I however am interested in reports of this weapon, and its weaponskill and performance. Things like this just interest me a good bit because they aren't common and its an unknown.

This entire thread has been a little annoying since it was about 80% uneccessary fluff... I guess what I would be interested to hear is how this weapon performs vs Love Halberd (with virtue stones) in a parse. How it compares vs Mezraq in a parse... and just various information about the weapon, it's weaponskill and the modifiers on it..

At this point I honestly can't tell if the people who have it are just not very helpful, or don't know how to compute this data for us, or if they are just turned off to the reception they received here and said nevermind and have no intentions of sharing now.

I hope none of those is the case, and its just something they haven't had time for yet due to RL or whatever.

[Rawk]

new stuff = cool

I agree.

[½pint]

new stuff = cool

You use group foods then?

[Neosutra]

The problem is that people are focusing too heavily on the modifier. Modifiers are great to buff, but only after you're getting good returns on the WS and WD itself. If that initial SS showed a 900-1000 damage Geirskogul on Cerb (which I think its possible with the right food, buffs and subjob), people would immediately accept Gungnir and Geirskogul as a decent relic bound by the same limitations that face any DRG (or any other melee job for that matter, the inability to boost attack, generate TP independently, or transfer hate on WS without sacrificing other abilities). Instead we have a SS with a 200 dmg Geirksogul and people are saying the relic sucks because it has an AGI modifier? Not the case.

We're not sure about the modifier or even the rTP multiplier because there's simply not that much to work with given the info that's been provided, but most relic WS are 3.0 rTP and that's what most sites list. However, the next best thing for DRGs is Wheeling Thrust which has an underwhelming 1.75 rTP multiplier at 100-300TP (ignores defense) and a decent 50% STR modifier. Yet, DRGs who /THF or /WAR with high enough attack perform respectably using Wheeling Thrust. Its not just because of the 50% STR Modifier, its because they're actually getting close to hitting the 2.4 and 3.0 (/THF) pDIF cap and getting a full return on their 90D+ Polearm.

So once again, we're looking at a 1-hit WS with an rTP of 3.0 (probably) and a 100D weapon. The emphasis should be getting a full return on those stats first, then worrying about bumping the 2ndary Modifier. Eliminating any other factors including secondary modifiers, quick math shows capping pDIF @3.0 with /THF and SA should result in @900D on Geirskogul. My thoughts are that trying to boost anything other than STR/DEX (what you find on Hecatomb) and attack (what you find on other decent DRG gear) on WS is going to adversely affect pDIF to the point its simply not worth it on any harder mob.

I am a bit fuzzy on the pDIF and rTP equations and relations, can you explain or post me a link to info about them? Would be nice to be able to determine the best way to maximize any weapon i am using.

[DeadLegend]

When your math teachers in high school told you you'd need algebra in the real world...they meant ffxi ws damage calculations.

[Khamsin]

The problem is that people are focusing too heavily on the modifier. Modifiers are great to buff, but only after you're getting good returns on the WS and WD itself. If that initial SS showed a 900-1000 damage Geirskogul on Cerb (which I think its possible with the right food, buffs and subjob), people would immediately accept Gungnir and Geirskogul as a decent relic bound by the same limitations that face any DRG (or any other melee job for that matter, the inability to boost attack, generate TP independently, or transfer hate on WS without sacrificing other abilities). Instead we have a SS with a 200 dmg Geirksogul and people are saying the relic sucks because it has an AGI modifier? Not the case.

We're not sure about the modifier or even the rTP multiplier because there's simply not that much to work with given the info that's been provided, but most relic WS are 3.0 rTP and that's what most sites list. However, the next best thing for DRGs is Wheeling Thrust which has an underwhelming 1.75 rTP multiplier at 100-300TP (ignores defense) and a decent 50% STR modifier. Yet, DRGs who /THF or /WAR with high enough attack perform respectably using Wheeling Thrust. Its not just because of the 50% STR Modifier, its because they're actually getting close to hitting the 2.4 and 3.0 (/THF) pDIF cap and getting a full return on their 90D+ Polearm.

So once again, we're looking at a 1-hit WS with an rTP of 3.0 (probably) and a 100D weapon. The emphasis should be getting a full return on those stats first, then worrying about bumping the 2ndary Modifier. Eliminating any other factors including secondary modifiers, quick math shows capping pDIF @3.0 with /THF and SA should result in @900D on Geirskogul. My thoughts are that trying to boost anything other than STR/DEX (what you find on Hecatomb) and attack (what you find on other decent DRG gear) on WS is going to adversely affect pDIF to the point its simply not worth it on any harder mob.

I am a bit fuzzy on the pDIF and rTP equations and relations, can you explain or post me a link to info about them? Would be nice to be able to determine the best way to maximize any weapon i am using.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/PDIF

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/FTP

Or, more generally:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Calculatin ... ill_Damage

[Rocl]

[quote=½pint]

new stuff = cool

You use group foods then?[/quote:595f1]
best invention ever, (you can usually tell a crappy party from a good party right away by gear/ls/etc) if you were to get into a bad pt, pop the group food by "accident" and laugh your way to oblivion if they have Sanction food effect 8)

[Lithiani]

When your math teachers in high school told you you'd need algebra in the real world...they meant ffxi ws damage calculations.

:D :D :D

Can I .sig that?

Although the calculations people do in FFXI are nothing compared to some of the number crunching that goes on in Eve Online - a game my best friend once described as "an excel spreadsheet with a pretty front end"

[quote=Rocl]

new stuff = cool

You use group foods then?

best invention ever, (you can usually tell a crappy party from a good party right away by gear/ls/etc) if you were to get into a bad pt, pop the group food by "accident" and laugh your way to oblivion if they have Sanction food effect 8)[/quote:ba6ac]

LOL

Joking aside though, there are a few of the group foods are manaburn-tastic.

[BRP]

Group foods are for Dunes.

[Navia]

posting in a disappointing thread of epic proportions.

I've got a friend with a stage3 lance and I hope for his sake this weapon doesn't really suck as bad as we are all lead to believe.
I thought all drg take pride in their job, especially one with a relic so I find it odd they aren't parsing the hell out of it just to make it clear to other gugnir upgraders what they are getting themselves into.

Lack of more info is worse than the scraps offered so far.

[Khamsin]

posting in a disappointing thread of epic proportions.

I've got a friend with a stage3 lance and I hope for his sake this weapon doesn't really suck as bad as we are all lead to believe.
I thought all drg take pride in their job, especially one with a relic so I find it odd they aren't parsing the hell out of it just to make it clear to other gugnir upgraders what they are getting themselves into.

Lack of more info is worse than the scraps offered so far.

Maybe they did parse it and are withholding the information purposefully so as not to disappoint the other DRGs with stage 3-4 lances, and further entrench the job in unending ridicule.

[Sixtail]

One must wonder of the horror, lolz and amusement that await when PUP, COR and BLU get their relic weapons.

[Priran]

One must wonder of the horror, lolz and amusement that await when BLU gets Ridill.

fixed

[Tom Chambers]

BG warms my heart so.

Whenever I come here I'm reminded of my neighbor/co-worker whose life revolves around WoW. Every day after work he logs on and doesn't log off til 10 or 11. Over weekends he'll leave his apartment once or twice to get food, and plays WoW the entirety of the rest of his time.

We try everything to get him to do stuff, but mostly it's just ridicule. He says going out to bars is a waste of money and it's not as fun to get drunk as it is to sit and play WoW. He says going out to to the beach is a waste of time and it's not as fun to skimboard as it is to sit and play WoW. He says going to someone's apartment/house isn't fun and BBQs are for suckers. He'd love to have a girlfriend- one who isn't a social outcast- and yet his life revolves around a video game.

And then he tells us that how are we any better if we spend our time making fun of him, and he, like the people here, seems to think that's an acceptable comeback. It's not guys.

Playing the game is not an issue, plenty of people play videogames. It's playing for hours upon hours every day, making jokes revolve around it. That's the problem we're experiencing here. Eternus is right: Most of you are straight fucking losers, and telling someone they're posting on a videogame messageboard will not change that sorry fact.

IV. Griefing and Necroposting
Threads that are griefed will be locked. This doesn't apply to playful lighthearted banter, rather to intentional successful derailment of serious discussion. Repetitive quoting of a quote, excessive off-topic anti-topic posting, and other things of that nature will lead to a thread lock. Necroposting (posting on a thread over a week old without adding anything substantial to the discussion) will result in immediate banning. Being primarily FFXI gaming forums, repetitive comparisons to other MMOs with the intent of causing conflict is not acceptable.

Hi, remember me? I'm a moderator now. Keep this up and I will stomp on you.

Again, the right response is: Fuck, maybe you're right. Maybe I should stop having my life revolve around this game.

You can ban me for trying to insert some perspective but...it'll hurt you alot more than it'll hurt me. What am I losing? I still get to read and laugh. And you're losing someone to remind you that a Ridill isn't the most important thing in the world and your self-worth shouldn't stem from a video game.

[Lordwafik]

No, you just dont get it. We dont want to read your amazing discoveries on the ways of MMO'ers here. Make a livejournal and post all your amazing findings in there, nobody gives a shit.

I wont be losing anything, well yeah, i'll be losing a dipshit who comes here, but will probably post under alternate names because he himself cannot let go of the same thing he mocks others of doing.

And you're losing someone to remind you that a Ridill isn't the most important thing in the world and your self-worth shouldn't stem from a video game.

lol @ you telling me this. I couldnt care less if I had a ridill, I will not lvl warrior past 37, my 2 jobs that can equip ridill (BST, THF) cannot benefit from it anywhere outside farming. So yeah! Keep asuming things about people you dont know.


----------------------------------

That being said, back on topic about the Gungir.

Consider this strike 1.

[RedFlare]

weee nothing as fun as watching moderator privileges go to a person's head.

don't worry tom chambers, a lot of us quiet lurkers enjoy your rare bit or accurate perspective, even if the louder ones wouldn't admit it no matter how much you back them in a corner. thats the way it usually is in life.

[Eaglestrike]

weee nothing as fun as watching moderator privileges go to a person's head.

don't worry tom chambers, a lot of us quiet lurkers enjoy your rare bit or accurate perspective, even if the louder ones wouldn't admit it no matter how much you back them in a corner. thats the way it usually is in life.

No.

Wafik would have that EXACT same opinion moderator or not. And considering he hasn't DONE anything about it, no privileges are going to his head, unless you mean any given to him by being one of the most well-liked posters on this forum