1400 Accounts suspended/terminated

[Zetah]

Drew banned lol

only drew? damnit

I'm still trying to find out who else is banned!

[Fhqwghads]

Orly? And you know this because you're a GM?

No, I know this because of the way the Windower actually works.
Do some fucking homework buddy.

So now you're telling me that have an intimate working knowledge of the Windows OS and every way that programmers can expoit the underlying API's in order to hide (or in SE's case) detect processes? Because if you don't, then all you're doing is relying on what the people who distribute windower feed you so you feel all warm and cozy using it. If you're willing to take the risk, it's no skin off my nose.

[Minions]

GM's will say anything that they know will be passed around to everyone and try to discourage people from doing/using it. gogo scaretactics ;x

[Mifaco]

is this the same Drew that allowed ebody drama to happen by saying "fine, all 3 of you lot on it"

[Jeryhn]

So now you're telling me that have an intimate working knowledge of the Windows OS and every way that programmers can expoit the underlying API's in order to hide (or in SE's case) detect processes? Because if you don't, then all you're doing is relying on what the people who distribute windower feed you so you feel all warm and cozy using it. If you're willing to take the risk, it's no skin off my nose.

No, I'm telling you, while its definitely possible to detect somone's processes they are running on their computer, it creates privacy issues, which are grounds for lawsuits, which are things big corps like SE avoid like the plague.

SE isn't Blizzard.

[Miji]

Orly? And you know this because you're a GM?

No, I know this because of the way the Windower actually works.
Do some fucking homework buddy.

Windower is detectable if only for the fact that he changes a window title here and there.

Example: Log in to PlayOnline. PlayOnline window title now says "Something - Windower Enabled". PlayOnline reads window title - it's not what it's supposed to be. Windower detected.

[Jeryhn]

Orly? And you know this because you're a GM?

No, I know this because of the way the Windower actually works.
Do some fucking homework buddy.

Windower is detectable if only for the fact that he changes a window title here and there.

Example: Log in to PlayOnline. PlayOnline window title now says "Something - Windower Enabled". PlayOnline reads window title - it's not what it's supposed to be. Windower detected.

Except that anyone can open their Registry, and change the titles on... anything.

SE will not view your registry, because they can get sued. End of story.

[Coephoros]

So now you're telling me that have an intimate working knowledge of the Windows OS and every way that programmers can expoit the underlying API's in order to hide (or in SE's case) detect processes?

What he's telling you right now is that his utter lack of knowledge pertaining to Windows, FFXI, and APIs in general, is infinitely superior to your outright stupidity. Stop pretending to have insight here, you're really just making yourself look more retarded than... well... at this point, I would be hard pressed to find something less retarded so let's just call you a "waste of a sperm" and get on with life.

[Fhqwghads]

Basically, if you're just using Windower for TParty and Distance, you cannot get banned/jailed/warned/etc.., so stop saying you can.

I'm relating what others have said. They were banned during a GM call for using windower. It's possible they might have said something stupid earlier about using windower, they might not have. I don't know. All I do know is, they were banned or suspended, and the GMs told them it was because they were using windower. Stating that they emphatically cannot detect windower is a farce, because nobody beyond SE themselves knows what they can or cannot detect. If people are willing to risk getting suspended or banned, knock yourselves out, but don't tell me that you know they can't detect it, because it's nothing but speculation.

[Jeryhn]

Basically, if you're just using Windower for TParty and Distance, you cannot get banned/jailed/warned/etc.., so stop saying you can.

I'm relating what others have said. They were banned during a GM call for using windower. It's possible they might have said something stupid earlier about using windower, they might not have. I don't know. All I do know is, they were banned or suspended, and the GMs told them it was because they were using windower. Stating that they emphatically cannot detect windower is a farce, because nobody beyond SE themselves knows what they can or cannot detect. If people are willing to risk getting suspended or banned, knock yourselves out, but don't tell me that you know they can't detect it, because it's nothing but speculation.

I'm more than sure Cliff knows exactly what they, and cannot, detect.

Hi2u Timestamp.

[Fhqwghads]

So now you're telling me that have an intimate working knowledge of the Windows OS and every way that programmers can expoit the underlying API's in order to hide (or in SE's case) detect processes?

What he's telling you right now is that his utter lack of knowledge pertaining to Windows, FFXI, and APIs in general, is infinitely superior to your outright stupidity. Stop pretending to have insight here, you're really just making yourself look more retarded than... well... at this point, I would be hard pressed to find something less retarded so let's just call you a "waste of a sperm" and get on with life.

Wow, overreact much? Stop skipping your Prozac.

[Miji]

Orly? And you know this because you're a GM?

No, I know this because of the way the Windower actually works.
Do some fucking homework buddy.

Windower is detectable if only for the fact that he changes a window title here and there.

Example: Log in to PlayOnline. PlayOnline window title now says "Something - Windower Enabled". PlayOnline reads window title - it's not what it's supposed to be. Windower detected.

Except that anyone can open their Registry, and change the titles on... anything.

SE will not view your registry, because they can get sued. End of story.

Is this homework enough? Windows API call = no registry reading.

[ertyu]

while it is painfully obvious who is a gil seller.. you cannot proove someone is getting paid irl for their services. you have to look at it from squeenix's PoV as well. the only proof they have is if they hack or if they catch them transfering money or something like that

[XaocRamuh]

Basically, if you're just using Windower for TParty and Distance, you cannot get banned/jailed/warned/etc.., so stop saying you can.

I'm relating what others have said. They were banned during a GM call for using windower. It's possible they might have said something stupid earlier about using windower, they might not have. I don't know. All I do know is, they were banned or suspended, and the GMs told them it was because they were using windower. Stating that they emphatically cannot detect windower is a farce, because nobody beyond SE themselves knows what they can or cannot detect. If people are willing to risk getting suspended or banned, knock yourselves out, but don't tell me that you know they can't detect it, because it's nothing but speculation.

I'm sure the guys working on decrypting the POL code know what is being sent back and worth (and consiquently what is being detected). The base code for Windower does not send anything back to the server that isn't already sent. TP is already sent to back and forth the server, but not displayed normally for other players. Distance is already sent back to the server, but also not displayed normally. All those 2 plugins do, is overlay those 2 pieces of data on the screen for the player to see.

Again, going back to the leaked 3.23 Windower; chatstamps are -not- sent to the server, because they are never sent to the client. Displaying this type of information in the chatwindow is a blatent 3rd party tool, and thus can be detected.

I go back to everyone elses statements: Windower cannot be detected.

[Tythera]

is this the same Drew that allowed ebody drama to happen by saying "fine, all 3 of you lot on it"

yep

[Fhqwghads]

I'm more than sure Cliff knows exactly what they, and cannot, detect.

Hi2u Timestamp.

He may know what they can detect with the current version of FFXI. The thing is, FFXI can be updated at any time, without warning. All it takes is one mysterious unannounced update to the client which includes code to detect windower. How many people will log on using windower with the client that can now detect and have their account flagged before Cliff posts a warning? It's the dynamic aspect of the FFXI client that makes using tools like windower risky. One day SE is in the dark, next day the floodlights are on.

It really doesn't matter what I say, or SE says, or what Cliff says, people will still use 3rd party tools and take their chances because they feel the benefits outweigh the risks. What I'm trying to get across is people shouldn't feel that windower is 100% undetectable, because that's just plain silly. I don't care if people use them or not.

[Cylo]

Wow this thread is full of a bunch of speculation being labeled as facts.

[zhan]

I'm the "ideal scrub" and damn proud of it.

[Devek]

Is this homework enough? Windows API call = no registry reading.

No, you're fucking stupid.

FFXI also makes "Windos API" calls to see if its in full screen or not.

Unless you've been doing this sort of thing your whole life, just don't fucking bother trying to talk about it.

If it wasn't for windower, ffxi wouldn't be around.

[Cylo]

Is this homework enough? Windows API call = no registry reading.

No, you're fucking stupid.

FFXI also makes "Windos API" calls to see if its in full screen or not.

Unless you've been doing this sort of thing your whole life, just don't fucking bother trying to talk about it.

If it wasn't for windower, ffxi wouldn't be around.

Pot meet kettle.