RMT companys selling player MSN names?

[Eternus]

Though even if you were price gouging, that should be good, in Eternus' view. Afterall, when you price gouge, who are you harming? The people who pay that price, which are the people who buy gil off IGE when they sell cheap, which is what you were looking at in the first place to determine when to price gouge (if you were price gouging).

The more something costs, the more gil someone has to buy to afford it, and the more it hurts their pocketbook. Eventually, the gilbuyers will be unable to afford the gil to buy some items, and will have to stop.

Actually you hurt everyone else who buys the item after them even as the price goes down after it is raised. It isn't like everyone is a gilbuyer who buys off the AH or buys a bazaared price that is the same as the gouged one a crafter set on the AH. Just like all crafters didn't PL their crafts by RMTing, not all people buy gil (but alot do I think). You can lead the charge on price gouging an item, only to lower it again gradually after you and rival crafters hover around that inflated price for a while. Then later you can raise the price.

Gilbuyers keep on spending like they have plenty more money it seems. They are the ones that are cheating in the game anyways, it is so hard it seems to ban a gilbuyer though. Gilsellers won't be able to sell anything for gil if nobody buys their wares. They will run out of gil flow if they can't sell items for gil easily and their farming will be all for naught. Very hard to check up on who you are buying from on the AH its already too late by the time you buy it.

Aurik you just raised the price on cursed slacks, so what? From 1.7mil to 2.5mil (thats not a big deal haha). Do you farm your own materials or buy them from gilsellers? Well I do not need an audit of you or anyone else's AH and bazaar history for their mains or mules. Crafters are just a part of the economy of FFXI. I don't care how you get your gil that much, or who you buy your currency from. You should see how the system is fucked to hell. I don't buy gil and my AH history seems to not be on FFXI AH. I rarely if ever buy off the AH anyway.

[aurik]

Aurik you just raised the price on cursed slacks, so what? From 1.7mil to 2.5mil (thats not a big deal haha). Do you farm your own materials or buy them from gilsellers? Well I do not need an audit of you or anyone else's AH and bazaar history for their mains or mules. Crafters are just a part of the economy of FFXI. I don't care how you get your gil that much, or who you buy your currency from. You should see how the system is fucked to hell. I don't buy gil and my AH history seems to not be on FFXI AH. I rarely if ever buy off the AH anyway.

Wow, you're too stupid to even read that simple chart properly. Here's a hint, July comes BEFORE August.

[Khamsin]

Gilsellers won't be able to sell anything for gil if nobody buys their wares.

Or, better yet, gilbuyers won't be able to buy their wares for cash if nobody sells anything.

Eliminate the gilsellers, and the gilbuyers become non-existant.

There's also a lot fewer gilsellers than gilbuyers, making it more practical to eliminate the sellers, than the buyers.

The key is to suppress the supply, not the demand.

[Lithiani]

Ban them both, gilbuyers are just as bad, as they shortcut the process to the detriment of legit players.

[Khamsin]

Ban them both, gilbuyers are just as bad, as they shortcut the process to the detriment of legit players.

That makes about as much sense as a police sting operation on drug addicts, rather than the dealers, drug lords and cartels.

What's going to happen if the police bust 100,000 druggies? Not a whole lot.

What's going to happen if the police bust 100,000 dealers, drug lords and key cartel personnel? A lot more than the aforementioned scenario.

[Lithiani]

Ban them both, gilbuyers are just as bad, as they shortcut the process to the detriment of legit players.

That makes about as much sense as a police sting operation on drug addicts, rather than the dealers, drug lords and cartels.

What's going to happen if the police bust 100,000 druggies? Not a whole lot.

What's going to happen if the police bust 100,000 dealers, drug lords and key cartel personnel? A lot more than the aforementioned scenario.

Without buyers there are no sellers. And I did say ban them both.

Gilbuying is cheating, they deserve to catch a ban.

[Khamsin]

Without buyers there are no sellers.

Without sellers there are no buyers.

And good luck eliminating every potential buyer, when there's a lot fewer and more obvious sellers.

[Eternus]

Of course ban gilbuyers when you catch them, but who knows anyone banned specifically for gilbuying? I don't know anyone that has been banned for that reason. I don't see all the gilbuyers or gilsellers ever getting banned haha. SE would have to change the entire economy to make it so RMT didn't matter. That would pretty much hurt crafters also.
Everyone would hopefully farm their own materials, which would be entertaining. Right now crafters are just part of the system, they get rich off of it too which is smart.

Nice Aurik made a sale so it doesn't show he had a higher price up at the top on August 23rd for 2.5mil and the Cheyenne undercut Aurik by selling for 1.7mil. This is no big deal, everyone knows the big inflation in FFXI is coming soon around the end of the year anyway. Gilbuyers bought up the gil then from what it seems. Can't really see who jumped on that wave and rode it for the most gil (most likely Aurik). You craft Cursed Slacks which is made with Siren's Hair, that is some of the most farmed shit by RMT. Those asswipes are in SSG constantly on Ifrit lol. Well at least you insure that gilbuyers end up paying 2x or more for their items. You end up selling all your shit (alot of which had materials farmed by RMT) when gilbuyers buy up all the cheap gil. You also sell it then for the highest prices since you know gilbuyers bought up a ton of cheap gil. Yeah its smart, its still the time of the year when the most price gouging is done. That is when someone makes the most gil anyway I would think as far as crafting goes. That still effects the non-gilbuying AH user as well, hopefully they camp SSG or whatever to at least farm their own Siren's Hair. The people who buy cursed slacks though are usually people who just got the A legs abj off of Seiryu and Suzaku. Suzaku can drop Siren's Hair. Those people could be buying the abjuration off of RMT or be in a legit LS that farms sky and didn't get the hair to drop. You have to love the system of how drops are handled.

[aurik]

Of course ban gilbuyers when you catch them, but who knows anyone banned specifically for gilbuying? I don't know anyone that has been banned for that reason. I don't see all the gilbuyers or gilsellers ever getting banned haha. SE would have to change the entire economy to make it so RMT didn't matter. That would pretty much hurt crafters also.
Everyone would hopefully farm their own materials, which would be entertaining. Right now crafters are just part of the system, they get rich off of it too which is smart.

Nice Aurik made a sale so it doesn't show he had a higher price up at the top on August 23rd for 2.5mil and the Cheyenne undercut Aurik by selling for 1.7mil. This is no big deal, everyone knows the big inflation in FFXI is coming soon around the end of the year anyway. Gilbuyers bought up the gil then from what it seems. Can't really see who jumped on that wave and rode it for the most gil (most likely Aurik). You craft Cursed Slacks which is made with Siren's Hair, that is some of the most farmed shit by RMT. Those asswipes are in SSG constantly on Ifrit lol. Well at least you insure that gilbuyers end up paying 2x or more for their items. You end up selling all your shit (alot of which had materials farmed by RMT) when gilbuyers buy up all the cheap gil. You also sell it then for the highest prices since you know gilbuyers bought up a ton of cheap gil. Yeah its smart, its still the time of the year when the most price gouging is done. That is when someone makes the most gil anyway I would think as far as crafting goes. That still effects the non-gilbuying AH user as well, hopefully they camp SSG or whatever to at least farm their own Siren's Hair. The people who buy cursed slacks though are usually people who just got the A legs abj off of Seiryu and Suzaku. Suzaku can drop Siren's Hair. Those people could be buying the abjuration off of RMT or be in a legit LS that farms sky and didn't get the hair to drop. You have to love the system of how drops are handled.

You're still an idiot that can't read a chart properly, that sale was in July, and the point of the link is to show the downward trend in slacks lead by none other than myself...

[Sylvrdragon]

I find it downright hilarious that this entire thing started because he said you shouldn't check gil prices on RMT sites.

As was stated earlier, knowledge is power. You know what, I bet when you're driving along in your car and you see that gas prices are the lowest they've been all week, you might say to yourself "Now would probably be a good time to top off my gas tank so I can save a couple bucks". I see absolutely no difference what-so-ever.

If you seriously think that gathering information is wrong, then have fun being a laborer all of your life, because you fail at economy.

[Eternus]

I don't work like that in real life. I make decent enough money yet I don't work that hard as evidenced by my posting on several internet forums while at work lol. This is a game that is poorly designed economically that is all. Crafters don't want to realize how they are a part of the system that allows RMT to do their job. It isn't the crafter's fault totally, but utilizing RMT to farm your own shit isn't good. Checking RMT sites is smart but you are still buying and selling RMT materials via being the middle-man for them to basically sell their goods to the regular player (not everyone who buys cursed slacks are gilbuyers). You are using the gil that the RMT make off of selling you and other crafters materials to predict the sales you will make later on off that same gil. Basically you eventually get your own gil back with a tidy profit and the gilbuyers screw themselves (good) while still being able to cheat the game (thats all that really matters and it sucks ass). Still the fact that this is possible is bullshit as far as RMT monopolizing shit like Siren's Hair for example. ToS of FFXI does say that you should not be using outside (of FFXI) resources to further yourself in the game does it not?

You still got undercut from about a month after. Yes you kept driving the price down so you could sell more product, good for you. The real price gouging happens at Christmas season anyways, when kids get their parents to buy them gil it seems. So what does this limited AH track record prove as far as price gouging, not really much lol. I really don't care either way, just when someone accumulates that much currency so fast, it raises red flags and looks shady as hell.

[aurik]

I don't work like that in real life. I make decent enough money yet I don't work that hard as evidenced by my posting on several internet forums while at work lol. This is a game that is poorly designed economically that is all. Crafters don't want to realize how they are a part of the system that allows RMT to do their job. It isn't the crafter's fault totally, but utilizing RMT to farm your own shit isn't good. Checking RMT sites is smart but you are still buying and selling RMT materials via being the middle-man for them to basically sell their goods to the regular player (not everyone who buys cursed slacks are gilbuyers). You are using the gil that the RMT make off of selling you and other crafters materials to predict the sales you will make later on off that same gil. Basically you eventually get your own gil back with a tidy profit and the gilbuyers screw themselves (good) while still being able to cheat the game (thats all that really matters and it sucks ass). Still the fact that this is possible is bullshit as far as RMT monopolizing shit like Siren's Hair for example. ToS of FFXI does say that you should not be using outside (of FFXI) resources to further yourself in the game does it not?

You still got undercut from about a month after. Yes you kept driving the price down so you could sell more product, good for you. The real price gouging happens at Christmas season anyways, when kids get their parents to buy them gil it seems. So what does this limited AH track record prove as far as price gouging, not really much lol. I really don't care either way, just when someone accumulates that much currency so fast, it raises red flags and looks shady as hell.

You're still an idiot who has to have a simple chart explained to him.

[Eternus]

I glanced at it for maybe 4 seconds lol. I don't need it explained to me, I just didn't find it as important as just arguing over the fact that a profitable crafter price gouges. The fact is I know you are wrong, and I bet deep down you know this game is fucked too anyway. Your sales on FFXI AH's limited database really tells nothing. I can't blame you for wanting to make a shitload of gil, but that is the definition of greed. Hell I could be called greedy in real life in some aspects. I just think FFXI is so fucked economically that this game doesn't need some greedy-ass crafters using RMT sites to increase their already decent enough profits more. This effects not just the gilbuying playerbase in FFXI, but the whole community. All of this would be fine if the RMT were incapable of monopolizing monsters, but FFXI's system allows them to do so easily. As evidenced by many gilseller bannings, they just restart and manaburn new BLM zerg armies every time. This is not working and crafters are part of the problem as long as they buy RMT farmed materials.

[Eternus]

You're still an idiot who has to have a simple chart explained to him.

I am sure it would be convenient for you to think I am just an idiot. You however think I am incapable of understanding the AH sales history, when I just was too lazy to take more than a passing glance. Thanks for telling me about what I was too lazy to re-check up on. Its not like it means jack shit to me at this time of year. Sure call me an idiot, when you know you have no leg to stand on. You have to resort to basic name calling and pointing out my reluctance to put more than a small effort towards researching what I knew beforehand was weak evidence (Christmas time is the price gouge anyway). That shows your counter-points are weak and devoid of merit. Congratulations on being a part of the problem, and not the solution. Good job on price gouging when gilbuyers buy a shitload of gil though. Fucking them over is nice, too bad it does nothing to stop RMTing lol. Its not like I do my part either, I still pay for my FFXI account. That basically is telling SE they are doing a good enough job for me to continue my payments. I can admit I am addicted despite my recent dip in playtime.

[aurik]

You're still an idiot who has to have a simple chart explained to him.

I am sure it would be convenient for you to think I am just an idiot. You however think I am incapable of understanding the AH sales history, when I just was too lazy to take more than a passing glance. Thanks for telling me about what I was too lazy to re-check up on. Its not like it means jack shit to me at this time of year. Sure call me an idiot, when you know you have no leg to stand on. You have to resort to basic name calling and pointing out my reluctance to put more than a small effort towards researching what I knew beforehand was weak evidence (Christmas time is the price gouge anyway). That shows your counter-points are weak and devoid of merit. Congratulations on being a part of the problem, and not the solution. Good job on price gouging when gilbuyers buy a shitload of gil though. Fucking them over is nice, too bad it does nothing to stop RMTing lol. Its not like I do my part either, I still pay for my FFXI account. That basically is telling SE they are doing a good enough job for me to continue my payments. I can admit I am addicted despite my recent dip in playtime.

Once again you accuse me of price gouging with absolutely no evidence. Good job, moron!

I'd ask you to substantiate your claims, but you probably don't understand what "substantiate" means, seeing how it took you 3 or 4 attempts to even understand the link I posted...hell in the end you still were unable to parse it yourself. I'm guessing you require your food pre-chewed too.

[Eternus]

I don't need to substantiate my claims, the evidence is that you use RMT sites to tell you when to raise the price and what to sell and when to sell it. That is how you price gouge during the holiday season lol. All crafters that are really successful do it. Keep on with the insults, shows me how much you care. Try me looking at it twice total, then you saying I didn't understand that you got undercut a month after. I did screw up by saying you raised the price when I didn't see the prior sale to your 2.5 mil one, I was guessing since you were selling it for 2.5 mil and the max it was listed at was 2.9 mil. The fact remains that someone undercut you about 3 weeks later by a margin of 800k which is the biggest price drop on the item in that AH history. You continued to help bring it down another 400k gradually while selling a bunch of slacks. I really am not looking at it now, just from memory of the 2 glances I made prior. I don't even use FFXI AH, its not like I am listed on it at all haha. Maybe I would if I cared as much about FFXI as I did 3 years ago. Notice I don't have to resort to calling you names, when all you have to hang on to is that I didn't take the time to properly look at the AH history of some items sold over the summer/early fall. Get back to me when you gouge the hell out of a big ticket crafting item during this December like you probably did last holiday season. Not like that even takes in account bazaar sales lol.

[aurik]

I don't need to substantiate my claims, the evidence is that you use RMT sites to tell you when to raise the price and what to sell and when to sell it. That is how you price gouge during the holiday season lol. All crafters that are really successful do it. Keep on with the insults, shows me how much you care. Try me looking at it twice total, then you saying I didn't understand that you got undercut a month after. I did screw up by saying you raised the price when I didn't see the prior sale to your 2.5 mil one, I was guessing since you were selling it for 2.5 mil and the max it was listed at was 2.9 mil. The fact remains that someone undercut you about 3 weeks later by a margin of 800k which is the biggest price drop on the item in that AH history. You continued to help bring it down another 400k gradually while selling a bunch of slacks. I really am not looking at it now, just from memory of the 2 glances I made prior. I don't even use FFXI AH, its not like I am listed on it at all haha. Maybe I would if I cared as much about FFXI as I did 3 years ago. Notice I don't have to resort to calling you names, when all you have to hang on to is that I didn't take the time to properly look at the AH history of some items sold over the summer/early fall. Get back to me when you gouge the hell out of a big ticket crafting item during this December like you probably did last holiday season. Not like that even takes in account bazaar sales lol.

Wrong. I use RMT sites to predict the market, not to decide "when to price gouge".

[Eternus]

Predicting the market is how you decide when to raise the price lol. You see the trend of massive gilbuying and decide thats when you should sell the item for the most gil. That is when the gilbuyers have the most gil afterall.

[aurik]

Predicting the market is how you decide when to raise the price lol. You see the trend of massive gilbuying and decide thats when you should sell the item for the most gil. That is when the gilbuyers have the most gil afterall.

Maybe that's how YOU would use market indicators. I use it in different ways. You're not clever enough to understand how.

[Dezzimal]

Allow me to spell it out:

Gil goes out of stock for your server. You sell your dusk gloves asap for 7mil. Price falls to 4mil. You buy them back.