Someone familiar with claim bots explain this to me please

[Tydeis]

Cool, Some Dude LS; awesome.

[Rocl]

CHASUBLE TEAM GO TO BETA OMEGA THETA FAFNIR FORMATION

Stun(*'-')/[Tiamat]\('-'*)
Kill #8 - Siren's Hair
Kill #9 - N.Kote + Siren's Hair
Kill #11 - Siren's Hair

Fucking Siren and her hair all over Tiamat and stuff

LISTEN- when suzaku uses chainspell have one tank run in and everyone else run away
then we start dying hardcore

[Vobent]

CHASUBLE TEAM GO TO BETA OMEGA THETA FAFNIR FORMATION

Stun(*'-')/[Tiamat]\('-'*)
Kill #8 - Siren's Hair
Kill #9 - N.Kote + Siren's Hair
Kill #11 - Siren's Hair

Fucking Siren and her hair all over Tiamat and stuff

LISTEN- when suzaku uses chainspell have one tank run in and everyone else run away
then we start dying hardcore

Hav my babiesprz

[Not Kuno]

Tonko didn't claim it yesterday lol. Sucks I fell asleep and missed an epic thread.

GG claiming someone bots when they've never even claimed fafnir. What an amazing bot.


As for the chatlog just lol. What did you expect to see in the chatlog? It already poped, it got claimed to us. Did you want our members to flash/stun/voke from the other side of the room before they got into position? Or start nuking it a second after popped? Of course you wont see any actions because people stopped doing actions until we got ready and into position. Theres no way to tell if that was 1 second or five because of that.

[Dusky]

Of course you wont see any actions because people stopped doing actions until we got ready and into position. Theres no way to tell if that was 1 second or five because of that.

Except that whoever took the second screenshot was spamming for claim and they got.. what... 3 messages that their target could not be claimed (or whatever it said) in between the 2 dia casts in the shot? Unless they were spamming super slowly... I don't see how you can say there's no way of telling how long between the casts. I mean.. the person taking the SS was still spamming for claim after the second cast too, so it was obviously continuous spam, no?

[Not Kuno]

Of course you wont see any actions because people stopped doing actions until we got ready and into position. Theres no way to tell if that was 1 second or five because of that.

Except that whoever took the second screenshot was spamming for claim and they got.. what... 3 messages that their target could not be claimed (or whatever it said) in between the 2 dia casts in the shot? Unless they were spamming super slowly... I don't see how you can say there's no way of telling how long between the casts. I mean.. the person taking the SS was still spamming for claim after the second cast too, so it was obviously continuous spam, no?

Then how can you decide either way? The doesn't change the fact that the chatlog isn't a valid gauge of time.

And that kuai screenshot is obviously fake. The first SS shows the chatlog w/o filters (ie You can see Alleya land flash and voke) and it doesn't show Tonko's dia landing. But in Kuais you dont see the flash or voke landing on it.

[Zale_Shiva]

Just admit if you bot. My LS does and it cuts out the drama

Other LS>> OMG YOU BOT
Us>> Yep better luck next time

or

Other LS>> Heres SS proving you bot!
Us>> Or go read the forums and we admit it

[Dusky]

Well, I can decide either way because I was there and I remember how fast the dias flew by, but I would think that the dias popping up during what is an obvious menu spam for claim would make it pretty clear too. Maybe I'm crazy in thinking that if someone is spamming that means they are hitting their spell or ja as fast as they can from menu... so anything that comes up during the spam would have to be pretty fast to show up that close together in the log.

As for Kuai's SS being fake, the first SS shows Abood and Tengaar voking, and Alleya's flash landing. Second SS only shows the flash, not the vokes. Know why? Because you only get logs of people close enough to you for their actions to show up. That's why in the second SS you don't see either voke. So, the fact that there is no flash or voke in the third SS doesn't prove it's fake, just that whoever it was wasn't close enough to Alleya, Tengaar or Abood to log their actions as well. =/

Besides, I don't see the point of creating a fake SS and then cropping it down and only posting the relevant part... and only posting a zoomout when someone says it's photoshopped. If you faked that much of the SS, why not post the whole thing in the first place?

[Not Kuno]

Because you only get logs of people close enough to you for their actions to show up.

So why doesn't the first SS show tonkos dia dmg? It shows his actions and alleyas flash/abood voke. Theres something wrong.

That's why in the second SS you don't see either voke. So, the fact that there is no flash or voke in the third SS doesn't prove it's fake, just that whoever it was wasn't close enough to Alleya, Tengaar or Abood to log their actions as well. =/

And the tooth fairy is coming to the mall at 12 for signatures and signings. This argument is becoming so retarded but it still doesn't prove to me that anyone bots. Theres alot of misinformation, inconsistancy and etc to show anything. This thread doesn't show anything except that people are willing to feast of scraps of something being kinda odd.

[Dammerung]

Flash landing and damage from dia are two different chat filters. I think Flash and provoke are on the same one (actions against mob) and dia is damage.

[Dusky]

Because you only get logs of people close enough to you for their actions to show up.

So why doesn't the first SS show tonkos dia dmg? It shows his actions and alleyas flash/abood voke. Theres something wrong.

Because the people taking the other screenshots have damage taken by foes/others filtered out? Flash and voke don't cause damage, so they wouldn't be filtered the same way.

I really don't get what your comment about the tooth fairy had to do with your second quote from me. Whether you agree that Tonko was botting or not, doesn't make what I said in the quoted bit any less true. Your log will only show actions of people close enough to you to be logged, nothing fantastic about that.

I also don't understand what's insconsistent about 3 screenshots from 3 seperate people showing Tonko casting dia 3 times in rapid succession. Looks pretty consistent to me... how many screenshots do you have to see before it seems consistent to you?

edit: I got a word wrong.

[Not Kuno]

Because you only get logs of people close enough to you for their actions to show up.

So why doesn't the first SS show tonkos dia dmg? It shows his actions and alleyas flash/abood voke. Theres something wrong.

Because the people taking the other screenshots have damage taken by foes/others filtered out? Flash and voke don't cause damage, so they wouldn't be filtered the same way.

I really don't get what your comment about the tooth fairy had to do with your second quote from me. Whether you agree that Tonko was botting or not, doesn't make what I said in the quoted bit any less true. Your log will only show actions of people close enough to you to be logged, nothing fantastic about that.

I also don't understand what's insconsistent about 3 screenshots from 3 seperate people showing Tonko casting dia 3 times in rapid succession. Looks pretty consistent to me... how many screenshots do you have to see before it seems consistent to you?

edit: I got a word wrong.

He probably did cast dia 3 times. But theres no possible way to know if it took him 1 second or 5 seconds. People just see what they want to believe. What did you want us to do? "Hey guys Fafnir popped and we got it lets keep trying to claim it". I dunno about your ls but if we get Fafnir we get into positions before anyone does anything unless you want lolflail.

[layoneil]

Just admit if you bot. My LS does and it cuts out the drama

i would if i personally did. i'm the dude that's casting Foe Requiem. i'm still trying to figure out if there are people in my LS who does, that's the whole purpose of this thread.

<3 people who cant accept they are caught

"they" nothing, whether or not this thread proves Tonko bots or not, it's not a reflection of BG as a whole.

the current BG policy is still if you bot and it's proven, you get kicked. no matter how this turns out just because one person may or may not bot doesn't prove most of us are doing it. he's also one of our newer members.

if you want some ammunition to say "BG is a botting LS, so it's okay to steal their NMs and MPK them" you should build a stronger case.

Tonko is just one guy, currently under investigation since you brought it to my attention.

oh man time ot change the story.. someone else came up with another scenario to protect BG.. COVER COVER...

there is no cover story, other BG people will say what they want to say.

some will sprout off random crap because their friend is being attacked.

some will sprout off random crap because they like sprouting off random crap on the forums (Niro, Rocl, etc).

none of that is relevant. there's no cover story, i'm gathering opinions whether or not more people think it's an obvious bot or not.

it's undeniably weird, there's no argument here, but weird isn't always a bot.

I think the most important person still has yet to post... whats tonkos explaination about what happened? why hasnt he posted?

If he really wasnt botting why doesnt he come here and say it. I can see hes on right now. All everyone is saying is 'this COULD be what happened.' To me this looks like obvious botting, what kind of moron uses a macro to claim. Better yet what kind of moron spends the time to figure out the /waits.

because it would not be meaningful. if you were innocent and you say you are than well okay that's expected, if you were guilty and you say you are innocent than people will say you are lying to protect yourself and that's also expected.

unless he comes on and admits it, which apparently he's not doing, than nothing he says will be of great relevance. whether he says nothing at all or he denies it, it's the same thing.

---

anyway, all BG members opinion are ignored since they are bias. Judah's interpretations are ignored since in the words of Mifaco, he's a "rival LS". Dusky has Judah in her sig so ditto to those opinions.

also trying to not take into consideration people on Bahamut since they might be bias for whatever reason (though i believe Gregorio is on Bahamut but his statement seems pretty tame).

I don't see it.

Maybe because he doesnt' understand what the fuck he's looking at. I don't either, tbh lol.

You needa be really careful when looking at order of events in a chatlog.. they are very unreliable and many times compleatly out of order with what actually happened.

Its not uncommon to even claim something and watch 3-4 people who are not in your alliance start casting after you did the claim move.

Either way, I don't think it could be conclusive evidence of a bot, like what was posted above, the chat log is absolute shit for telling what order things happend in. Those dias could have been way more spread out than they appear to be in that screenshot.

Chatlogs have been proven faulty on other threads, random crap occurs, any paladin can tell you the log has shown him provoking in mid-flash cast and other junk of the sort countless times.

It could just be a freak occurrence. Yesterday when we claimed Behemoth, I casted Dia twice and neither landed (cause of the claim timer adjustment I assume), even though we had already claimed.

also, with all that said, it could be a bot too. It just means the chat log doesnt prove it. if you could get a video of how fast he was casting it, then it would be much easier to prove.

lag

How many people were in the pit? As I've said in the past, chat logs and sequences can be pretty unreliable. Even with all of your filters on, there's a good chance you don't see every claim action if the claim is outside of your polling vicinity.

That being said, the chances of 3 Dia being picked up in such a short sequence with so many other claim actions being picked up in log is kinda suspicious.

Also, the pictures prove nothing, it doesn't show one Dia landing on fafnir. I see a flash landing, but I see 0 Dias landing so 5 second delay on dia means absolutly nothing, so he's not hacking into the game to cast dia over and over. Also why do both screenshots stop right at the same place? Can we get some pictures farther down the log?

he may or may not have been botting, but definitely don't bet the house on the chat log lol.

unbias opinions doesn't seem convinced from the current evidence.

since kicking someone for botting is equivalent to betting the house, i'm currently taking phirien's advice until more actual evidence is shown.

going to work.

[Credos]

Sounds like the leader is handling it the way it should be done.

You honestly can't expect someone to kick one of their own LS mates just because of a SS you have.

[Zale_Shiva]

I dont even have to read this thread and i can tell you what its about. Every single anti-bot thread is the same. I'm not saying if you bot or not for casting requiem. Personally it doesnt matter to me much. We had a few of these on my LS and when they realized we werent gonna argue with them, rather just support their theory we botted they ran out of things to say.

[Scorp]

Might be an idea to at least read the first page though.

[Daahan]

I have an assignment for Yinninites.

Find a picture of Steve Buscemi from the movie Reservoir dogs, the picture where he's holding up his fingers and says "You know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses."

Just replace waitresses with Judah 8)

edit: I was expecting a good read before class

[genome]

I think it would help to have this tonko guy just make a post, not much to say "i'm innocent" or "i'm guilty", but to just say what he did/was doing.
That's pretty standard, like "what were you doing the night of..."

For example, was he using a macro? If so did his macro contain waits and for how many seconds. Was he running, was he changing equipments during the casts, did any of those dias get interrupted from running or something. Some of these questions would be easy for him to remember and to explain.

It would make things easier to think about if we could just match what he says with the data, instead of considering all possibilities at once and best and worst scenarios for each.
Right now it's not even clear how far apart dias were casted but in both cases it coud be good or bad. Case1, 3 dias took 15 seconds, bad: he was afk spamming, good: he was casting just in case. Case2: 3 dias took just a few seconds total, bad: he hacks in some weird way, good: he was running and casting repeatedly with gear swap or some other testable explanation.

I think just saying "screenshot logs are unreliable" and "you can't tell time accurately" is not really the best way to put this behind (true, screenshot logs are really bad, but from 3 different sources that basically goes around most lag-induced-out-of-sequence glitches since you would expect each person to get a different order).
Try to get exactly his (tonko) explanation/recollection of what happened or how he generally tries to claim, then look at what we know and make sure they match and go from there..

(I guess I have no personal interest in the people involved since they are in another server, just trying to be helpful but also I thought it would be good to try to find a way to conclusively tell who is botting.. cue chappelle's show sketch about R.Kelly's trial..)

[Zale_Shiva]

<-- wiped to Abood lol

[Dusky]

Sendoh, you should've just made a poll if that's the way you're going to decide it... obviously most opinions will be biased in a BG's members favor since this is your LSes forums, right?

This whole thing started with a PM, giving you the chance to make a call as a leader. Your call was to post it on the forums so that your adoring masses could reassure you that there was no way someone in your LS could be wrong.

Good call. ^^b